Russia blocks RD-93 to Pakistan?

[xulei]

China can make the engines for JF-17 by herself.
Taihang engine has already developed,and it nearly became a product.

 

[Keysersoze]

I cannot explain that. But the logic is wrong, that since other major papers and tabloids have not reported this, then it must not be true. This assumptioin is wrong, it has been reported by several Indian defence websites too. There has been a quotation as well saying Russia wants China to honour the EULA. EULA is basically that no third country will get the Russian exported material. BTw i think it wont evince interest in any country except for India and Pakistan.

@Keysersoze: No dude, i dont know the scandals of the NYT. Do tell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jayson_Blair

Well here is a quick Wiki link that covers some of it. Most of the others are either left or right wing rants...but I will put them up anyway....

http://cagle.msnbc.com/news/NYTimes/main.asp

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1915128

 

[EagleEyes]

Sweden is in the race for getting the order for 197 artillery for IA and also has a outside chance with its grippen for the MRCA deal.

Would they try to do anything to topple that chance.
The answer is NO.

What kind of Artillery? The company that makes Artillery, doesn't make Gripen. It doesn't matter to them. Gripen knows that it is not going to make it when superior equipment is being offered to IAF. Pakistan already has a good share by purchasing six Erieye AEW&Cs.

 

[Keysersoze]

What kind of Artillery? The company that makes Artillery, doesn't make Gripen. It doesn't matter to them. Gripen knows that it is not going to make it when superior equipment is being offered to IAF. Pakistan already has a good share by purchasing six Erieye AEW&Cs.

Plus wasn't there a huge scandal involving Bofors?

 

[Bull]

How do you explain an event of this magnitude getting unreported, specially in the tabloids? :read:

tabloid..which one The hindu.

Why dont you just try reading it mate?

With all due respects that was a very stupid statement.

 

[Bull]

China can make the engines for JF-17 by herself.
Taihang engine has already developed,and it nearly became a product.

Then why cry about RD-93?

 

[Bull]

Plus wasn't there a huge scandal involving Bofors?

There were two aspects of the bofors scandal.

1. There were kickbacks involved, the proceeds are said to have gone to the Gandhi and Hinduja families.

2. The bofors were accused of being stupid guns, which couldnt function.

The second point was prved baselees by the performance during the kargil war.The performance was so good that a village/street in the home town of bofors in Sweden was named Kargil.

This prompted the IA to upgrade the exisiting bofors gun and to get even more from Sweden.

 

[Bull]

What kind of Artillery? The company that makes Artillery, doesn't make Gripen. It doesn't matter to them. Gripen knows that it is not going to make it when superior equipment is being offered to IAF. Pakistan already has a good share by purchasing six Erieye AEW&Cs.

Webby India is largest buyer of arms in the world, even a share of that budget would keep an arms exporter happy bcoz it opens up a huge market for them.

Their desperation is visible when they decided to open a office in B'lore and put up the largest stall for Aero India 2007.

Everybody wants a part of the share, 6 AWACs isnt going to give Pakistan any bargaining advantage with the swedish.

 

[Contrarian]

The second point was prved baselees by the performance during the kargil war.The performance was so good that a village/street in the home town of bofors in Sweden was named Kargil.

Yeah, it was shown on TV that when the soldiers were firing bofors in Kargil, they yelled 'Rajiv Gandhi Zindabad'. They proved to be an excellent system and a life saver in Kargil.

This prompted the IA to upgrade the exisiting bofors gun and to get even more from Sweden.

True, the IA is upgrading all its arty's including Bofors to 155mm 55 caliber, BUT, they did not go and buy the new Bofors guns outright. Since it was a huge issue if they bought Bofors again without any competition, a proper tender was issued for the artillary systems, many companies competed.

The last 2 finalists were the Israeli Soltam guns and BAE's(previously swedish) Bofors guns. There were an unprecedented 5 rounds of trials for the guns!!
It took around 3 years just for the trials, all the systems competed in different parts of India, they were tested in tehe mxaimum heat of Rajasthan and the cold in Siachen, etc, etc.

The Govt was determined to prove that only the best gun would get the contract, because Bofors is a sensitive issue.

Finally the Bofors beat out Soltam. It was said that it satified 99% of IA's requirements. Anyhow, now the new Bofors are being bought, and old one's upgraded.

So it was a huge process, the govt just go and buy guns LOL. There would have been another scandal!

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Won’t let China use our engines for Pak planes: Moscow
Shishir GuptaPosted online: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 at 0000 hrs Print Email
NEW DELHI, JANUARY 23: On the eve of President Vladimir Putin’s visit to India for Republic Day, Moscow has given a categorical assurance to New Delhi that it will not allow China to supply JF-17 Thunder multi-role fighter aircraft to Pakistan equipped with Russian RD-93 engines.


Government sources confirmed that the Russian assurance was conveyed by Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov to visiting National Security Advisor M K Narayanan at a meeting in Moscow on January 11.

This puts a question mark over the Sino-Pak joint venture as Islamabad hoped to get some 150 aircraft (called FC-1 in China) to counter the developing Indian Light Combat Aircraft.

Pakistan has invested $150 million in the project with Russia already supplying 16 RD-93 aircraft engines to the Chengdu Aeronautical Complex. Under the agreement, Moscow is contracted to supply 100 engines with an option of another 500 jet engines.

Official sources told The Indian Express that Ivanov told the NSA that Moscow has made Beijing sign an end-user certificate on the RD-93 engines to ensure that they cannot be re-exported to Pakistan. Ivanov arrives in India tomorrow with Putin scheduled to follow on January 25.

While Moscow has been able to address Indian security concerns in the neighbourhood, it is still mulling over signing the “integrity pact”, now a must for all countries involved in big-ticket hardware deals with New Delhi.

Under the new rules for a bilateral arms supply deal, a country has to sign a pledge with New Delhi saying that will not indulge in any bribe-giving or malpractices to influence Indian officials in its favour. Defence Ministry officials say that United States, France and Israel have already signed this pact.

However, Russian Deputy Defence Minister Mikhail Dmitriyev told a visiting delegation led by Joint Secretary (Land Systems) Rajiv Takru on December 14 that Moscow needs “legal consultations” before signing the pact. Dmitriyev and his boss Ivanov are expected to finalise the issue in a meeting with Defence Minister AK Antony and Secretary Shekhar Dutt on January 24.

On the joint manufacture of medium transport aircraft (to replace the aging Indian An-32), India has said no to the Russian term of prior consent before selling the aircraft to a third country.

But the issue is still open. New Delhi will invest $300 million in the $600-million project with Russia diverting the remaining amount from the existing Rupee-Rouble account.

So for the time being India and Russia will sign a protocol of intent for the MTA aircraft (Russia will buy 100 and India 40) and an agreement allowing New Delhi to manufacture RD-33 aircraft engines that are used in MiG-29 K.

shishir.gupta@expressindia.com

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/21601.html

 

[genmirajborgza786]

RUSSIA-PAK PRINT EMAIL
'China not allowed to sell Russian military equipment to Pak'


NEW DELHI, JAN 24 (PTI)
Reacting to reports that Pakistan planned to get sophisticated Russian-made aero engines installed in its fighters by China, Russia today said the agreements governing military sales did not permit a buyer to sell the equipment to a third country.

"We have been carrying out military-technical cooperation with other countries on the basis of international agreements for supply of various materials. We supply only to those with user certificates. The same is applicable to these engines as well", Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov told reporters here.

He was asked to comment on reports that China was re-exporting RD-93 jet engines to Pakistan for being installed in the Thunder JF-17 fighter they are developing jointly.

According to the reports, China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation is to roll out 16 of these fighters for Pakistan Air Force from March.

Russian officials said the end-user licence agreement with China does not allow the transfer of these engines to Pakistan or any other country and Moscow had no intention of changing these conditions.

To another question on US plans to deploy anti-ballistic missiles in the Czech Republic and Poland, Ivanov said Moscow was aware of these developments. The anti-ballistic missile system is intended to intercept missiles fired from Iran or North Korea.

"However, we know that neither Iran nor North Korea have capabilities of producing inter-continental ballistic missiles, though they have medium-range ones. So, who is the target", asked Ivanov, who is also the Russian Deputy Prime Minister.



© Copyright PTI. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of any PTI content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without their prior written consent.

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=445890

 

[genmirajborgza786]

No Russian engines for Sino-Pak JF-17 jets: officials


Moscow, Jan 22: Russia would not allow China to install Moscow-made RD-93 jet engines in the fighter aircraft it is manufacturing in a joint venture with Pakistan, officials said here.

The Thunder JF-17 fighter is a joint venture between Beijing and Islamabad and Moscow holds the key to its success by allowing China to install RD-93 engines, initially developed for the upgradation of MiG-29 fighters inherited by Berlin after German re-unification.

"We have an end-user license agreement (EULA) with China, which does not allow the transfer of these engines to Pakistan or any other country. We do not have any intention to change the EULA conditions," a senior Russian Defence Ministry official said speaking on condition of anonymity.

Earlier, briefing the media ahead of Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov's India visit beginning today, Chief of the International Cooperation Department of the Ministry, Colonel-General Anatoly Mazurkevich said, "De jure China has no right to install RD-93 engines on the fighters to be delivered to Pakistan." According to agreement, China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation is to roll out 16 JF-17 Thunder fighters for Pakistan Air Force beginning from March this year.

China has been pressing Moscow to allow the deliveries of fighters with Russian engines to Pakistan.

However, Moscow seems to have finally decided to say no to Beijing, putting the Sino-Pak venture in jeopardy.

--- PTI

http://www.newkerala.com/news4.php?action=fullnews&id=83837

 

[genmirajborgza786]

Russia blocks sale of Chinese jets to Pakistan

Vladimir Radyuhin

The JF-17 fighter aircraft have been powered by Russian RD-93 engines
New Delhi, Moscow to sign pact on 5th generation fighter plane
Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov to visit India
MOSCOW: Russia has blocked the sale of Chinese fighter planes with Russian engines to Pakistan.

"We've denied China the right to supply its JF-17 fighter aircraft powered by Russian RD-93 engines to third countries, asking it to sign an end-user certificate for the engines," said Colonel-General Anatoly Mazurkevich, head of the Defence Ministry's International Cooperation Department.

President Pervez Musharraf said last year that the JF-17s would be flying in Pakistani skies by March 2007. Islamabad plans to acquire 150 JF-17s, known in China as FC-1. China has bought 100 Klimov RD-93 engines from Russia for installing on JF-17s, with an option to contract another 400 engines.

Speaking to Indian and Russian journalists ahead of a visit to India by Russia's Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov on January 22, Col.-Gen. Mazurkevich confirmed that India and Russia are shortly to sign accords to jointly develop and produce a 5th generation fighter plane and a multi-role transport aircraft.

India is expected to announce during Mr. Ivanov's visit its choice between two Russian concepts of a multi-role stealth fighter plane of the 5th generation that the Russian aviation majors, Sukhoi and MIG, presented to the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) last year.

The aircraft deals will be discussed when Mr. Ivanov co-chairs with Defence Minister A.K. Antony the 6th meeting of the Indo-Russian Inter-Governmental Commission for Military-Technical Cooperation. Ahead of the commission meeting on January 24 Mr. Ivanov will fly to Bangalore to visit the HAL and the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), as well as some leading Information and
Technology companies, and meet business people.

http://www.thehindu.com/2007/01/22/stories/2007012206341400.htm

 

[genmirajborgza786]

these were somelinks i found though all of these are indian news source we need to cornfirm it .It may be true and can be false though it looks like there is a 80% chances of this bieng true 20% false coz the only sources are indian none the less a lot of news papper is reporting it incliding the hindu which i have posted along with the other sources
so till an official anouncment is finally done on the matter i'll say it is 80 to 85% true.

 

[lulldapull]

Mairaj mian......no need to go into mulla mode anymore. Just take it like a man....and next time advise your impressionable ppl to avoid an American or CIA sponsored 'wahabbi' jihad.

Here is a local paindoo source for the reality check:

http://paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?166846