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Russia and Germany Eye Project-75I , Battle Heats Up

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Recently Defence ministry cleared defence projects worth Rs 80,000 crore major chunk of which will be consumed for purchasing conventional submarines under Project 75I at an estimated cost of Rs 50,000 crore . Indian Navy along with Indian Defence ministry will now sit down and visits 7 Shipyards in next two months and will select Shipyards who will manufacture all Six submarines in India.

idrw.org can confirm that among 7 shipyards selected , 2 are Private Shipyards which are Larsen & Toubro (L&T) and Pipavav. 5 Public Sectors Shipyards are Mazagon Dockyard Ltd (MDL), Hindustan Shipyard Ltd (HSL) , Goa Shipyard Ltd (GSL), Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers (GRSE) , Cochin Shipyard Ltd . Mazagon Dockyard Ltd which is currently manufacturing French Scorpene submarines under Project 75 even though is facing Heavy Criticism due to continuous delays in the Project 75 , has been assured to land at least 2 Submarine construction . while at least 1 Private shipyard might bag order for one submarine construction.

Submarines shortlisted under Project-75I are The Amur 1650 (Russia), Scorpene (France), Type 214 (Germany) and S-80 (Spain). While Mazagon Dockyard Ltd has been advocating building enlarged Scorpene since they have already picked up submarine building skills from the earlier project , but it is unlikely to happen due to steep rise in cost of Project and French in name of inflation have doubled Equipment cost from already contracted ones .

Two Biggest Contenders fighting for Project-75I are Russia with Amur 1650 submarines and Germany with Class 214 submarine. Both countries have steeped up their back channel push for order and also are firing at all guns on diplomatic front too. Russia seems to be more desperate to bag the order and have been pushing hard for sale , Amur 1650 offered by Russia is dubbed has a modernised version of the Kilo-class submarine which can be equipped with air-independent propulsion (AIP), Amur boats are single-hulled, with minimal displacement allowing for reduced noise signature and improved propulsion quality has also is most effective modern non-nuclear submarine available today. Compared to similar boats in its class .on the downturn China might be first Export customer of Amur 1650 Submarines and Since China will also Built 2 in its Shipyards locally , Technology might be replicated for building newer diesel Submarines for china . India and china earlier too operated Kilo class submarines but now situation has clearly changed and Indian navy might be wary of operating a weapons systems which also will be used by Rival china.

Germany which lost to France in supply of Submarines under Project 75, is also on full offensive and has offered Type 214 submarine which is derived from the Type 212 and Export variant of it missing key Ground breaking technology which is non magnetic steel hull which makes the Type 212 submarine impossible to detect using a Magnetic Anomaly Detector. Type 214 scores over Amur 1650 in having better AIP system which give sub much more endurance days & energy efficient AIP system which Russians have contested in past , while Germans also brag that sonar suite on Type 214 submarine is highly superior to AMUR 1650 sonar suite ,while Russians can brag that Amur is much bigger and has better firepower and can be integrated with BrahMos SLCM variant, it reportedly has better stability at rough seas and will be cheaper then German offer .

Spain’s offer of S-80 Class is also under consideration , while Submarine project has suffered set backs due to weight imbalance issue at production stage and four submarines are yet to enter service with Spanish navy it gives it slight disadvantage over other submarines offered under Project 75I .


Russia and Germany Eye Project-75I , Battle Heats Up | idrw.org
 
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I would prefer Germany over Russia, with little knowledge that I have it seems that Russian have issues with quality and maintenance while German are known for quality. However, I would like to hear from people who know and understand it better.
 
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Depends really on the AIP technology India wishes to go with. The Germans have the higher tech but more maintenance intensive fuel cell system.. the Swedes have the simplest Stirling Cycle.. and the Scorpenes offer commonality.
 
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2-image.jpg


S-80 class submarines design


The cost of construction of the four submarines is expected to be €2.2bn.
The S-80 class submarines will measure 71m in length and 7.3m in diameter. The hull of the submarine will be 51.76m long.

The surface displacement of the submarines will be 2,200t, while the submerged displacement will be 2,400t. The submarine will accommodate 32 crew members and eight transport personnel.

Development history of the S-80 class

Initial plans for the S-80 Class submarine were brought forward in 1989, with preliminary studies conducted until 1991. Objectives for the submarine programme became clearer during 1997 and 1998.

Two project definition contracts were awarded from 1999 to 2002. The first contract was signed by IZAR (now Navantia) and Spain's DAM, while the second contract was carried out by IZAR. The contracts were awarded with the purpose of defining the submarine's prototype.

The construction approval was granted in September 2003 and the construction contract awarded in March 2004.

Sonar suite

The S-80 submarine's sonar suite will comprise of a cylindrical array sonar, a flank array sonar, a passive ranging sonar, and a mine and obstacle detection sonar. These facilities are being provided by Lockheed Martin. The support structures and fairings for the sonars are being provided by Goodrich.

The S-80 will also be integrated with a towed array sonar system, supplied by QinetiQ, an interception positioning system and an own noise analyser.

S-80 combat and command systems

The S-80 class will be equipped with weapons handling equipment (WHE), supplied by Babcock International, and commercial off-the-shelf technologies (COTS) jointly developed by FABA and Lockheed Martin.

The submarine will carry six torpedo launchers and 18 weapons, including mines, DM2 A4 torpedoes, MK48 torpedoes, Harpoon missiles and Tomahawk cruise missiles.

It will be fitted with satellite communication systems developed by Indra and a guidance automation unit distributed intelligence (GAUDI) autopilot system developed by Avio.

The submarine will be equipped with Aries radars, Friend or Foe identification systems (IFF) and modular Pegaso defence electronic systems supplied by Indra.

The submarine will also be enhanced by integrating non-penetrating all-weather optronic imaging systems, hoistable masts and periscopes, which will be supplied by Kollmorgen Electro-Optical and Calzoni.

Propulsion details of the S-80 class submarines

The S-80 will be powered by three diesel engines rated at 1,200kW each, a 3,500kW main electric engine, and a 300kW air independent propulsion (AIP) reactor.
The electric propulsion motors used in the submarine are 20% lighter than those used in Scorpene submarines and generate about 50% more energy compared to other submarines, while operating in the same conditions. The propulsion motors are being provided by Gamesa Electric. The propulsion system will provide a speed of 12kt on surface and 19kt when submerged.

Fuel cells for the AIP reactor will be supplied by UTC Power. The fuel cells will be fed through a bioethanol processor supplied by Abengoa. The reactor will be equipped with a carbon dioxide removal system developed by Bionet.

TYPE 214 SUBMARINE

type212_9.jpg


(I)SONARS:
• The sonar suite CSU 90 (DBQS-40FTC) includes following types of sonar:
* cylindrical array (CAH) for medium frequency passive detection
* FAS-3-1 flank array sonar for low/medium-frequency detection
* thin line towed array (TAS) for low frequencies in a medium self-noise environment (fitted for)
* passive ranging sonar PRS-3-15 for calculation of target data
* active sonar (CTA) , for determination of target range and bearing.
* Intercept array sonar for detection of active emissions of surface ships.
* The active high-frequency mine detection sonar (MAS) is the MOA 3070.

(II)ELECTRONICs :
• The command, sensor and weapon control outfit comprises the STN ATLAS Elektronik ISUS 90-15 system upgraded to provide increased low frequency detection range.

• It has SPHINX-D with 4Kw pulse and tactical LPI radar sensor by Thales Defence Deutschland GmbH in Kiel. It uses an additional pulse transmitter in the top of the mast.The radar sensor is a FMCW transceiver which can't be detected by ESM systems in medium terms. This technology is so called LPI radar, which means "Low probability of intercept". The transmitting power is lower than the power of a mobile phone but the resolution more precise compared to high power Pulse radar. Thales SPHINX radar is a tactical radar, designed for submarines.

Type 214 submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It is equipped with an attack periscope, an electro-optic mast OMS-100 (both manufactured by Zeiss) . The optronic mast will be equipped by thermal camera , laser range finder and low lightness TV (LLLTV) .

Periscopes: Carl Zeiss SERO 14, with FLIR and optical rangefinder
Carl Zeiss SERO 15, with laser rangefinder

• Decoys:TAU 2000 torpedo countermeasures system

A consortium led by STN ATLAS Elektronik and Allied Signal ELAC is responsible for the development of the TAU 2000 torpedo countermeasures system. TAU 2000 has four launch containers, each with up to ten discharge tubes equipped with effectors. The effectors are small underwater vehicles, similar in appearance to a torpedo. The effectors are jammers and decoys with hydrophones and acoustic emitters. Multiple effectors are deployed in order to counter torpedoes in re-attack mode.In the occasion of upcoming torpedo 3 jammers and 2 decoys will be fired from the system.

•ESM:TIMNEX II(Elbit)
Elbit Systems' TIMNEX submarine ESM/ELINT system is an advanced tactical & intelligence gathering system. The unique receiver technology offers excellent sensitivity to detect, analyze, identify and counter a full spectrum of sophisticated emitters in extremely dense electromagnetic environments.

Hellenic U214 pics (Greek Turkish Affairs Forum)
Elbit

• Other systems include inertial platform, attitude and heading reference equipment, EM-log, echo-sounder and GPS. All sensors and weapons are controlled via five multipurpose consoles of the ISUS 90-15.

well regarding sensor system ,here TYPE 214 SUBMARINE has a clear edge over AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE. As TYPE 214 SUB's sonar suite CSU 90 (DBQS-40FTC) is technologically highly superior to AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE's LIRA sonar system .
TYPE 214 SUB's SPHINX-D with 4Kw pulse and tactical LPI radar sensor is a cutting edge technolgy .& also addition TAU 2000 torpedo countermeasures system & Electronic Support Measures :TIMNEX II(Elbit)adds more teeth to it's capabilty .
SO here AMUR 1650 SUBMARINE is completly overwhelmed TYPE 214 SUBMARINE

Check this link for U214 VS Amur
TYPE 214 SUB VS AMUR 1650 SUB A Layman's analysis
 
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What kind of an amateur wrote this article? I've seen better writing from high school students.
 
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On a sidenote: I always liked the 214. Hands down the slickest, coolest looking sub in existence. Whenever I see it I always instinctively think "Nautilus" :enjoy:

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But I thought that P 75I would be complete indigenous .
 
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Wow... IDRW is doing wonders these days...

OT are names of submarines mentioned in RFI..?
 
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Hail Hitler! Germany all the way better tech for sure.This is the same reason IAF ia choosing Raffale


That was chandryan man. How would u know it as u don't have a moon mission.
rafale is french not german, about the second part of your post: it was a sarcasm
 
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German type 214 has been returned by the customer , I think Greeks..over some issues

Why would India buy it.. Unless type 212 is offered
 
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German type 214 has been returned by the customer , I think Greeks..over some issues

Why would India buy it.. Unless type 212 is offered


Exactly my opinion.

India should ask Germany to enter competition with U-212.
 
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But I thought that P 75I would be complete indigenous .

Nope.... in fact we have not produced a single ship that is completely indigenous.... and actually, almost no one in the world does that these days....
 
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I think now it's going to domestic + foreign combo team competition ..

Whichever company joins whom is going to be the first question,

Type of submarine to be offered might come next.. Although its somewhat fixed

Personally I would hope Japanese soruyu also enters the competition ..,. Yeah ...wet dreams I know
 
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