Rs 80,000 crore worth defence projects cleared, 6 submarines to be built in India

[Zarvan]

• 
  
• NEW DELHI: India has opted to buy Israel's Spike anti-tank guided missile, rejecting a rival US offer of Javelin missiles that Washington had lobbied hard to win.
  
  India will buy at least 8,000 Spike missiles and more than 300 launchers in a deal worth Rs. 3200 crores ($525 million), it was decided at a meeting of the Defence Acquisition Council over the weekend. Twelve Dornier aircraft will also be bought for the navy and 362 infantry combat vehicles; the council also agreed to go ahead with locally building six submarines, in collaboration with a foreign partner, in a project worth $8.2 billion or Rs. 52,000 crores.
  
  Prime Minister Narendra Modi's five-month-old government wants to clear a backlog of defence orders and boost India's firepower, amid recent border tensions with China and heavy exchanges of fire with Pakistan across the Kashmir border.
  
  "National security is the paramount concern of the government," an unnamed source told Reuters, quoting Defence Minister Arun Jaitley, who also holds the finance portfolio, as telling the procurement panel.
  
  Spike is a man-portable 'fire and forget' anti-tank missile that locks on to targets before shooting. It is produced by Israel's Rafael Advanced Defence Systems, which declined to comment.
  
  It beat out the rival US Javelin weapons system, built by Lockheed Martin Corp and Raytheon Co, that Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel had pitched during PM Modi's visit to Washington at the end of September.
  
  US Javelin weapons system didn't compete initially. At much later date when field trials, technology transfer and cost had been worked with Israel, US offered to co-develop and co-produce the missiles.
  
  Sources told NDTV that South Block decided against the US offer for three reasons: One, the extent of Technology Transfer to the Indian counterpart Bharat Dynamic wasn't clear; two, the cost of the Israeli missiles was cheaper than the US missile and finally canceling the Israeli deal at the last moment would have sent wrong signals to the international community.
  
  Analysts estimate that India, the world's largest arms buyer, will invest as much as $250 billion in upgrading its Soviet-era military hardware and close the gap on strategic rival China, which spends three times as much a year on defence.
  
  The government has raised the foreign investment cap on India's defence industries to speed up the military's modernisation.
  Story First Published: October 27, 2014 12:19 IST
• India to Buy 8,000 of These Anti-Tank Missiles From Israel

 

[kaykay]

Atleast 2-3 threads are running on same news.

 

[RKO]

yeah... now sleep peacefully in your tanks!!

yeah... now sleep peacefully in your tanks!!

 

[Skull and Bones]

I believe we have one of the largest stockpile of anti tank missiles in the world.

 

[CNwansui]

yeah... now sleep peacefully in your tanks!!

yeah... now sleep peacefully in your tanks!!

yeah...i guess u could get to NA if you got a raft

 

[kaku1]

That's why the normal diesel electric propulsion is used for normal transit, while you would use the AIP to attack an enemy or sneak in to a target. The low noise is more important here than the speed.



Have some doubts on that, it simply doesn't offer us much advantages to go with it, if it's based on the Scorpene anyway and we can get naval Scalp and a proven MESMA AIP from the French directly.



You are mixing some things up here. We have the U209 and it's successor is the U214, which is on offer for us. The U212 was developed only for Germany and Italy and the U216 is a new concept based on that sub, but so far was not part of our competition. Depending on if we allow new, not developed subs to be part of the competition, the Germans might change their offer, but that's speculation at this point.
Personally I would love to go for additional Scorpenes and ask the Germans for a joint development on the U216 instead, to implement IN's requirements and Indian systems from the start.

Now, the P-75 I is build by most probably by L&T. And all the L&T administration is happy with this.

But on other hand I heard another news that Indian Navy planning 2 more order for MDL for Scorpene, and other order goes to L&T.
But the these will be nuclear submarine, the hull of the Scorpene will be used to create SSN, definitely it almost confirmed that INS Vishal will be nuclear, and BARC already working on a new 190 MW reactor, which may go critical by 2017. And this new reactor can be used in powering new class of SSBN and Aircraft Carrier.
On other hand SSN will be on the design of Scorpene, a 4000 tonne SSN, using 100 MW reactor and Scorpene hull, like the Brazillian way.

What your thinking about this? And I expect that in next class of nuclear submarine, IN use pump-jet instead of propeller.

Is there any SSK out there with AIP and VLS ??

Actually there is no purpose of VLS on SSK, without speed, and range, threre is of no use. It is much better that SSK use torpedo launch cruise missile.

This is the same reason Amur was rejected by IN and even Russian Navy didnt show any sign to build them.

 

[kurup]

Actually there is no purpose of VLS on SSK, without speed, and range, threre is of no use. It is much better that SSK use torpedo launch cruise missile.

This is the same reason Amur was rejected by IN and even Russian Navy didnt show any sign to build them.

If Navy is insisting a land attack option via torpedo tube launched missiles , then VLS makes more sense .

 

[kaku1]

If Navy is insisting a land attack option via torpedo tube launched missiles , then VLS makes more sense .

Ok, VLS for land attack and not for AsCM missile.

But there is another problem here, but launching a cruise missile from VLS and controlling the buoyancy level will be horrible for SSK.

In enemy waters, where there will be lots of bugs around, it can easily disclose its location, and max. speed of 20 knots, anyone can intercept it, it will be like sitting duck.

In my thinking SSK is not for cruise missile and not at all for VLS. By launching a cruise missile it easily give away its location.

 

[Dash]

So the new government is not ordering any indigenous helicopters or submarines, is not creating a new policy and is actually causing more delays and more costs for the taxpayer in these deals!

So you think private players will add more delayes to construction of ships?

 

[kaku1]

So you think private players will add more delayes to construction of ships?

If it goes to GSL,GRSE or Pipavav, then I think yes. But if it goes to L&T, then probability of delay is less.

 

[Dash]

If it goes to GSL or Pipavav, then I think yes. But if it goes to L&T, then probability of delay is less.

I feel all three of them are competent, I have seen how Adani's built Kundra port in Guj and I am impressed. The only diference in private players are they can take quick decisions to meet deadline. L&T has the knowhow of a nuclear hull, that doesnt mean that private sector cant hire a consultant and make a similar hull. There are ways to do it.

 

[kaku1]

I feel all three of them are competent, I have seen how Adani's built Kundra port in Guj and I am impressed. The only diference in private players are they can take quick decisions to meet deadline. L&T has the knowhow of a nuclear hull, that doesnt mean that private sector cant hire a consultant and make a similar hull. There are ways to do it.

Nuclear Hull? There is nothing nuclear in a hull. BTW, atleast L&T has experience in manufacturing Sub hull and already has a manufacturing line, and other shipyard excluding MDL, no one has that much experience in Submarine building.

 

[Dash]

Nuclear Hull? There is nothing nuclear in a hull. BTW, atleast L&T has experience in manufacturing Sub hull and already has a manufacturing line, and other shipyard excluding MDL, no one has that much experience in Submarine building.

LOL!, sorry I rote that casually. L&T has experience I Agree, but thats a 2nd gen nuclear sub and it doesnt necessarily translate to a latest build of attack submarine. And just like it happens in corporate houses, PIpavav can hire one from L&T and make its sub with a help of foreign consultant. Its not impossible.

A govt sector is adept in such cases. Think optimitically.

 

[kaku1]

LOL!, sorry I rote that casually. L&T has experience I Agree, but thats a 2nd gen nuclear sub and it doesnt necessarily translate to a latest build of attack submarine. And just like it happens in corporate houses, PIpavav can hire one from L&T and make its sub with a help of foreign consultant. Its not impossible.

A govt sector is adept in such cases. Think optimitically.

Yup, you are right. Read my Post #136.

 

[sancho]

Is there any SSK out there with AIP and VLS ??

Not at the moment, the U216 and the recenct Barracuda class concept are larger and newly designed subs, which will include both capabilities.

Now, the P-75 I is build by most probably by L&T.

Not necessarily. The Make in India policy is aimed on foreign vendors teaming up with Indian counterparts, which means L&T teams up with a certain vendor and only if their sub wins, L&T will be the Indian manufacturer.

What your thinking about this?

All the rumors about vessels with nuclear propulsions are not worth anything yet, since even Arihant is in prototype and testing stage yet. Until that propulsion and the systems are proven, we won't use it in other applications. Besides that, SSNs will have their own rols and would not reduce the need of SSKs, so even if we would go for SSNs based on Scorpene, it would be done in a combined deal with more Scorpene SSKs.

So you think private players will add more delayes to construction of ships?

IF they are meant to produce additional Scorpenes yes, because no matter how good they are, they have to absorb the technology first to build it, which takes time. Mazogon already has absorbed it and would need less time to build additional once.