Rs 2000 notes to be phased out in next few years: RSS ideologue S Gurumurthy

[ashok321]

• PM Narendra Modi turns to old tricks as cash experiment hurts India's growth

 

[deckingraj]

OK in simple terms... Government may/may not go by his personal comment but the probability of Government following his statement is considerably high.

Well this says nothing...you are not committing to either side yet you want to make statements like RSS is 10 Janpath...anyways this is your prerogative...

You say anybody can review the India's elected government, fair enough. But I haven't seen the elected individuals from BJP going to every orgs/places(you mentioned) to get their reviews. Did you? There is a place called Parliament where questions are legitimately raised which I guess you forgot.

Because all those organizations are not their election buddies...really is it so hard to understand?? And i am not sure why are you saying again and again that I forget Parliament? I told you there is not one forum...all work in tandem...as a ruling or for that matter opposition party you want to get feedback from all channels irrespective of the fact how corrupt or honest you are....the need and value of feedback is same...and here we are referring to organization whose services you use...comon!!

I claimed that RSS is the 10 Janpath of BJP, so if you are trying to say that Sonia Gandhi controlled Indian government during UPA rule, then the onus lies on you to prove the same i.e. that Sonia Gandhi controlled Indian government during 2004-2014.

Really you want me to prove that?? You using 10 Janpath line itself is a proof...anyways so that i don't waste my time what kind of proof you are looking here...there are tons of material out there...from neutral folks to people who worked with them to actions within parliament...however it is funny you used that line and asking me to prove it

No it is because I believed that you have good analytical and reasoning skills...

Fair enough, but then atleast show the hole in my logic...as i am still trying to use the same skills...

So tell me, Is BJP and RSS one and the same?

No they are not...however given they are not same does that mean they are not helping them win elections?? They are which means their(RSS) cadets and their ground information is important for BJP...I would rather have you put your energy in telling me why is that not important....

That is what you want to believe, if a re-owned News room decides to put that article out, the narrative does hold water.

Define what is renowned as per you...because after that i will put Renowned news rooms articles talking trash about AAP and Kejriwal...i am sure you would then believe them as their narrative holds water...Look you cant have both ways...

As stated earlier, Had PM of India going against RSS being something quite normal then it wouldn't have been a news in the first place. So I am not disagreeing with the news article, I am just stating the reason behind the news headline or article content.

BJP has always been referred to as a Communal party....Congress along with SP, BSP, RJD are considered secular....this is also a narrative out there...do you want me to paste past activities that will make every single party look communal??...I will once again say...show me something which proves the narrative...otherwise Modi is the butcher of Gujarat is another narrative that wont go anywhere irrespective of the fact that govt. of the day did their best to corner him complemented pretty well by Media...and yet failed

 

[The_Showstopper]

Well this says nothing...you are not committing to either side yet you want to make statements like RSS is 10 Janpath...anyways this is your prerogative...

So tell me, what do you understand by "RSS is 10 Janpath"?

Because all those organizations are not their election buddies...really is it so hard to understand?? And i am not sure why are you saying again and again that I forget Parliament? I told you there is not one forum...all work in tandem...as a ruling or for that matter opposition party you want to get feedback from all channels irrespective of the fact how corrupt or honest you are....the need and value of feedback is same...and here we are referring to organization whose services you use...comon!!

You are stating that RSS and BJP are election buddies, which I understand. And you claim that RSS just provides feedback to BJP Government. So tell me what do you name such kind of relationship, what stakes does RSS hold in BJP's election fortunes?

Really you want me to prove that?? You using 10 Janpath line itself is a proof...anyways so that i don't waste my time what kind of proof you are looking here...there are tons of material out there...from neutral folks to people who worked with them to actions within parliament...however it is funny you used that line and asking me to prove it

So please provide some of those proofs, I am eager to have a look at them.

Fair enough, but then atleast show the hole in my logic...as i am still trying to use the same skills...

I am already doing that but I guess you don't seem understand it. Not sure if that is willful on your part...

No they are not...however given they are not same does that mean they are not helping them win elections?? They are which means their(RSS) cadets and their ground information is important for BJP...I would rather have you put your energy in telling me why is that not important....

So why do you think they are helping BJP win elections since they aren't the same? What do they get out of it?

Define what is renowned as per you...because after that i will put Renowned news rooms articles talking trash about AAP and Kejriwal...i am sure you would then believe them as their narrative holds water...Look you cant have both ways...

Someone who has mostly come out with credible news like Hindustan times, The Hindu, Indian Express etc. Oh please quote articles where newsrooms trash AAP or Kejriwal. And show me where did I ever question the articles which trashed AAP or Kejriwal...

BJP has always been referred to as a Communal party....Congress along with SP, BSP, RJD are considered secular....this is also a narrative out there...do you want me to paste past activities that will make every single party look communal??...I will once again say...show me something which proves the narrative...otherwise Modi is the butcher of Gujarat is another narrative that wont go anywhere irrespective of the fact that govt. of the day did their best to corner him complemented pretty well by Media...and yet failed

OK first things first...

It is BJP who stoked up 1992 Babri masjid demolition and it is BJP which got benefited by it, it triumphed in Gujarat post 2002, It is the leaders of BJP who have openly made statements against minorities. I will just give one example among many...

'Despite' being Muslim, Abdul Kalam was a great nationalist: Sharma

Source: http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...list-sharma/story-z1PQqBn6Uc0mH6It9TLRKI.html

This coming from a minister of present Government.

Many Sadhvis and Adityanath's have made atrocious statements against minorities(mostly muslims), yet they go unpunished.

Now speaking about other parties, they aren't really secular in the true sense(according to me), but the narrative is out there because unlike BJP they don't really profess any religious leanings(atleast openly) under the garb of "nationalism" even though they have their share of communal skeletons in their own backyard...

 

[somebozo]

What is the point of launching them if they have to be demonetized..it is like an advance warning...no one will now stash cash in 2000 notes.

 

[deckingraj]

So tell me, what do you understand by "RSS is 10 Janpath"?

Look you are better than this...I have already explained...that Sonia was de facto PM and similarly RSS...

You are stating that RSS and BJP are election buddies, which I understand. And you claim that RSS just provides feedback to BJP Government. So tell me what do you name such kind of relationship, what stakes does RSS hold in BJP's election fortunes?

The same fate that any supporter hold...Baba Ranmdev also supported BJP during election campaign however that is not equivalent to him being our de facto PM...

So please provide some of those proofs, I am eager to have a look at them.

If you tell me what is a good proof for you...I have given you examples in the earlier post...pick your favorite one and let me know...

I am already doing that but I guess you don't seem understand it. Not sure if that is willful on your part...

Then you are not doing a good job at it...

So why do you think they are helping BJP win elections since they aren't the same? What do they get out of it?

They are the ideological mentor of BJP...So being Sangh whom would you want to be in power??...I mean to be honest you are asking me questions that even a kindergarden kid knows in India...there have been couple of instances where a BJP govt have come to power...both times it was speculated that sangh will control India now...however during vajpayee or so far under Modi we have not seen anything that is worth mentioning...if you have then share here...this would be putting hole in my logic and claims, no??

Someone who has mostly come out with credible news like Hindustan times, The Hindu, Indian Express etc. Oh please quote articles where newsrooms trash AAP or Kejriwal. And show me where did I ever question the articles which trashed AAP or Kejriwal...

I am not saying that you are supporting or trashing such articles...i don't know about it so cant make a claim...I was asking would you just believe that narrative..anyways my larger point is that there are many narratives that more speculative in nature and thus needs to be taken with pinch of salt...

This is one of the recent news...and for the records i don't believe that leaders have to present all the time...a system needs to be in place and that is what saves people not leaders...
http://www.hindustantimes.com/delhi...-go-missing/story-c6pKZbKB1wRXK2kBmwX13L.html

OK first things first...
It is BJP who stoked up 1992 Babri masjid demolition and it is BJP which got benefited by it, it triumphed in Gujarat post 2002, It is the leaders of BJP who have openly made statements against minorities. I will just give one example among many...

They have made statements against minorities because their vote bank is not consisting of minority...this is the biggest mistake that so called pseudo secular make...making statements against minority is no doubt communal however making statements in form of appeasement politics is also communal..this part we conveniently miss...Just recently a clown said that muslim dominated areas are specifically targeted(by not providing enough cash) during this demonitization drive...now let me ask...is this a communal statement??

Now speaking about other parties, they aren't really secular in the true sense(according to me), but the narrative is out there because unlike BJP they don't really profess any religious leanings(atleast openly) under the garb of "nationalism" even though they have their share of communal skeletons in their own backyard...

After 84 pogrom where thousands of Sikhs were butchered by organized mobs at behest of congress ministers Rajiv Gandhi justified all that with one simple statement..."when big tree fall earth shakes"...now this is coming from the mouth of PM...however it will not sound communal to anyone..why?? because as per narrative congress is secular party...Not only that just for appeasement politics crores of muslim women were deprived of their rights...i am talking about Shah Bano case...read a bit on this...of-course that is not communal as a narrative...so i will repeat...narratives are built but not necessarily gospel truths...Every single party in India is communal and play divisive politics...BJP is no saint either...however as per Narrative only they are communal...so much for narratives

 

[Indiran Chandiran]

Congrats though a late one. It is a pleasure to see old Indian members indeed we had some wonderful ones back then. Many are inactive but it is always pleasant to see our old buddies from India.

Oh yeh the newbies are a big headache lolzz. I was once as emotional as these but still I do not remember if I resorted to bellow the belt remarks at that time but these days it is indeed sad to such language here these days.



What is wrong with that? India already had started it even when Pakistan was not having it and trust me you were and are able to attract Gulf

He can favour anything he likes but he is not supposed to make statements since he is not a Government representative(Atleast officially)...

In the sub continent , we have this very ancient & enviable tradition of splitting hair.something which the creators of this forum thrive upon.

There's nothing wrong or right with Islamic banking.It's just that this RSS ideologue is in favour of it & had voiced his opinions on it in the past.Just as he's voicing his opinion on how 2k notes will be De monetized in the not so distant future.That's what it is - an opinion.nothing more or less.

Further , people who think this is going to benefit the country will find a million ways & reasons to support Modi's audacious gamble & those opposed to it will keep mouthing their opposition citing million reasons .Right now the former seems to be prevailing .For , in spite of the massive hardships millions have been put through , there seems to be wide spread acceptance of the arguments of the benefits of demonetization as opposed to the ill effects that the malcontents seem to be forwarding - most of whom are religious minorities & / or die hard supporters of political parties & ideologies in direct opposition to Modi's.

One of my complaints against Modi is , he , personally doesn't care a damn for these sections .They haven't nor will support him & he doesn't need their understanding & support The 'love' is reciprocated - which isn't right , considering that he's the PM of the entire nation not just his constituency .But such is the state of affairs today.

Another reason perhaps for a counter polarisation taking place , consolidating & coalescing behind Modi , indifferent to the massive upheavals unleashed .Its another manifestation of how badly the credibility of the Congress & largely - the UPA has suffered on account of their incompetence & corruption , during their years in power & how this perception is still strong in the minds of the ordinary citizen .

The truth will be known soon .In a few months.One just hopes that those in favour or those opposed to it will have the courtesy of accepting facts as it is , as & when the consequences of de monetisation becomes a reality in due course & acknowledge their misreading of the situation.Revolutions are dirty business , bloody or otherwise .

 

[ashok321]

• Maha co-op banks receive Rs 5,000cr in just 4 days

• Demonetisation: Cash turning into gold for PSBs

Subterfuge continues.
Modi cant do no shik.
Crooks are one step ahead of GOI
Water finds its own level.
Modi is unable to detox Indian people's DNA.
So black money will pop up again within 8 months.

 

[The_Showstopper]

The same fate that any supporter hold...Baba Ranmdev also supported BJP during election campaign however that is not equivalent to him being our de facto PM...

Well Modi and his cabinet ministry doesn't visit Baba Ramdev to give report card of his Government performance whereas Modi and his ministry does visit RSS to get what you call "reviews and feedback".

If you tell me what is a good proof for you...I have given you examples in the earlier post...pick your favorite one and let me know...

This is what you stated "there are tons of material out there...from neutral folks to people who worked with them to actions within parliament.", So I would want to see at least one piece of material which supports your claim.

Then you are not doing a good job at it...

That is what you want to believe, doesn't mean you are right over here...

They are the ideological mentor of BJP...So being Sangh whom would you want to be in power??...I mean to be honest you are asking me questions that even a kindergarden kid knows in India...there have been couple of instances where a BJP govt have come to power...both times it was speculated that sangh will control India now...however during vajpayee or so far under Modi we have not seen anything that is worth mentioning...if you have then share here...this would be putting hole in my logic and claims, no??

So tell me when you say that Sangh hasn't controlled Modi ruled Government, what do you expect will happen when Sangh "starts" controlling the Central Government? In simple terms, I ask you what will happen if Sangh starts controlling the Modi Government?

This is one of the recent news...and for the records i don't believe that leaders have to present all the time...a system needs to be in place and that is what saves people not leaders...
http://www.hindustantimes.com/delhi...-go-missing/story-c6pKZbKB1wRXK2kBmwX13L.html

http://www.hindustantimes.com/delhi...-go-missing/story-c6pKZbKB1wRXK2kBmwX13L.html
Why do you think Delhi leaders gone missing became a news? Indeed it is not a compulsion that leaders have to be present all the time but if you look at the present instance, the system was not up to the mark which resulted in deaths. Had their being a proper system, do you think, this would have made news?

They have made statements against minorities because their vote bank is not consisting of minority...this is the biggest mistake that so called pseudo secular make...making statements against minority is no doubt communal however making statements in form of appeasement politics is also communal..this part we conveniently miss...Just recently a clown said that muslim dominated areas are specifically targeted(by not providing enough cash) during this demonitization drive...now let me ask...is this a communal statement??

Indeed doing appeasement politics is something both BJP and the "secular" parties do which I don't disagree with. Isn't this "clown" labelled as communal by both the "secular" and "nationalist" parties? So I am not sure that this statement of his can be counted under "secular" politicians doing appeasement.

After 84 pogrom where thousands of Sikhs were butchered by organized mobs at behest of congress ministers Rajiv Gandhi justified all that with one simple statement..."when big tree fall earth shakes"...now this is coming from the mouth of PM...however it will not sound communal to anyone..why?? because as per narrative congress is secular party...Not only that just for appeasement politics crores of muslim women were deprived of their rights...i am talking about Shah Bano case...read a bit on this...of-course that is not communal as a narrative...so i will repeat...narratives are built but not necessarily gospel truths...Every single party in India is communal and play divisive politics...BJP is no saint either...however as per Narrative only they are communal...so much for narratives

Tell me, why do you think the Congress mobs attacked Sikhs? Is it because they have some intrinsic hate towards Sikhism/Sikhs or is it because one of their community member killed their leader? Do I get to see a continuous cycle of hate spewed by Congress against Sikhs? I don't see that happening hence the narrative. And speaking about appeasement, yes Congress does appeasement, so does BJP and other political parties... It is their votebank they cater to.

 

[deckingraj]

Well Modi and his cabinet ministry doesn't visit Baba Ramdev to give report card of his Government performance whereas Modi and his ministry does visit RSS to get what you call "reviews and feedback".

Now you are bring stubborn...I have already explained to you why...RSS cadets bring them ground feedback...not baba ramdev

This is what you stated "there are tons of material out there...from neutral folks to people who worked with them to actions within parliament.", So I would want to see at least one piece of material which supports your claim.

Sure..however i told you to pick one choice...since you have not i am just pasting whatever links that are coming on top...and honestly do we really need to even discuss this?? This was your own point...

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/p...baru-proves-what-we-already-knew-1477069.html
http://the.kashmirtelegraph.com/0604/one.htm
http://www.dailypioneer.com/state-editions/raipur/de-facto-pm-adheres-to-sonias-diktat-advani.html
http://www.vaidehisachin.com/making-and-unmaking-of-manmohan-singh-13-04-13.html

if you can then read this book...
https://books.google.com/books?id=Z...4MAY#v=onepage&q=Sonia was defacto PM&f=false

That is what you want to believe, doesn't mean you are right over here...

however you are ??

So tell me when you say that Sangh hasn't controlled Modi ruled Government, what do you expect will happen when Sangh "starts" controlling the Central Government? In simple terms, I ask you what will happen if Sangh starts controlling the Modi Government?

Its funny..you put in remarks and then you start asking me....it is you who is inferring that Sangh controls govt. So you have to tell me any action on govt. side that proves Sangh controls govt. Why are you expecting me to do your job?? Either say you have nothing to show sangh control govt. or show something that states that...no??

Why do you think Delhi leaders gone missing became a news? Indeed it is not a compulsion that leaders have to be present all the time but if you look at the present instance, the system was not up to the mark which resulted in deaths. Had their being a proper system, do you think, this would have made news?

Yes, it would still have made news...Without system leaders can't do jack...so their presence don't make an iota of difference...did those deaths stopped when leaders came back?? We unfortunately go after semantics....

Indeed doing appeasement politics is something both BJP and the "secular" parties do which I don't disagree with. Isn't this "clown" labelled as communal by both the "secular" and "nationalist" parties? So I am not sure that this statement of his can be counted under "secular" politicians doing appeasement.

Great ...we have some agreements as well...However people like Azam Khan are equal clowns and yet labelled as secular party..no??

Tell me, why do you think the Congress mobs attacked Sikhs? Is it because they have some intrinsic hate towards Sikhism/Sikhs or is it because one of their community member killed their leader? Do I get to see a continuous cycle of hate spewed by Congress against Sikhs? I don't see that happening hence the narrative. And speaking about appeasement, yes Congress does appeasement, so does BJP and other political parties... It is their votebank they cater to.

I know it was not your attention however you have almost given a justification to Sikh Pogrom..so watch your words when you post something on that sensitive matter...Anyways you are claiming that BJP has intense hatred for Muslims...right?? And your proof to that is statements by their leaders(even though they are hardly of any significance within party)..however do you have anything else apart from those statements?? If i have abject hatred for Muslims and i am the PM of this country for almost 2.5 years then surely i should have done something about it...no?? Similarly Vajpayee's 5 years should also have some tangible actions to settle Muslims for good...no??

And now let me repeat what i said...Congress and Other parties play appeasement politics as we both agreed...their motivation is to cater to Muslim vote bank...BJP's votebank is hindu vote...they don't want to be upfront about it and thus RSS plays that role for them....in short all is just appeasement politics...the day congress will feel that Muslim vote bank is not in her interests they will switch gears and compete with RSS...Look how SP and BSP compete for Dalit and Muslim votes...this is mere politics...because one is after majority vote that is why they are labelled as communal...those who are after minority/dalit votes are labelled as secular...At the end of the day Social engineering is the sad reality of our politics...

 

[The_Showstopper]

Now you are bring stubborn...I have already explained to you why...RSS cadets bring them ground feedback...not baba ramdev

No I am not being stubborn, but let's understand what you are trying to state. You say that decisions taken by UPA led Government was influenced by Sonia Gandhi, but Modi government independently takes decision without the influence of RSS. Correct me if this is not what you stated or implied. You claim that RSS cadets bring "reviews and feedback" and in no way influences the government decisions whereas I have posted articles which clearly imply that it is RSS which "reviews" Modi led Government functioning. So I ask you again, who is RSS to review an elected government of India and is it right for a elected government to seek blessings from a Private Org and its leader? Please don't comeback stating that RSS helped BJP hence the exercise...

Sure..however i told you to pick one choice...since you have not i am just pasting whatever links that are coming on top...and honestly do we really need to even discuss this?? This was your own point...

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/p...baru-proves-what-we-already-knew-1477069.html
http://the.kashmirtelegraph.com/0604/one.htm
http://www.dailypioneer.com/state-editions/raipur/de-facto-pm-adheres-to-sonias-diktat-advani.html
http://www.vaidehisachin.com/making-and-unmaking-of-manmohan-singh-13-04-13.html

if you can then read this book...
https://books.google.com/books?id=Zbs0AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT104&lpg=PT104&dq=Sonia+was+defacto+PM&source=bl&ots=0MK4xOTaqQ&sig=Mu6j36_jstGI7BWGz-OrrdCDdAo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLhp_br_bQAhWBfZAKHZOPAYw4ChDoAQg4MAY#v=onepage&q=Sonia was defacto PM&f=false

So you post some articles to prove your point that Sonia Gandhi controlled UPA led government, let me tell you that even I can post articles which claim that RSS controls BJP...

RSS remote control, BDJS leaks spark resentment in BJP

Source : http://english.manoramaonline.com/n...uble-bjp-national-council-meet-kozhikode.html

RSS asserted its political dominance over BJP: WikiLeaks

Source: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...-bjp-and-rss-control-over-party/1/150050.html

Controlling the party

Source: http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/rss-controlling-the-party/article6335653.ece

A dangerous influence: Modi govt under RSS control

Source: http://www.hindustantimes.com/colum...rss-control/story-6CC2UwjPV8z4yw4EvzlbBO.html

So tell me when I say RSS is 10 Janpath of BJP, how is it wrong?

Its funny..you put in remarks and then you start asking me....it is you who is inferring that Sangh controls govt. So you have to tell me any action on govt. side that proves Sangh controls govt. Why are you expecting me to do your job?? Either say you have nothing to show sangh control govt. or show something that states that...no??

Look at the first post of mine, I stated that RSS is the 10 Janpath of BJP led government, it was you who brought in the word "control" implying that Sonia Gandhi controlled the UPA led Government hence I asked you as to how you came to that conclusion and if you have any evidence to support that...

Yes, it would still have made news...Without system leaders can't do jack...so their presence don't make an iota of difference...did those deaths stopped when leaders came back?? We unfortunately go after semantics....

They may not be required in all cases but in some cases, they may be required. When we have natural calamity, a building collapse or a train accident. In most of the cases, Prime ministers, Chief ministers etc aren't required to visit if system is in place, it will be more of a namesake visit, but there may be instances where leaders are required to make decisions after accessing the situation so that an emergency system can be put in place. Hence the outrage over their absence.

Great ...we have some agreements as well...However people like Azam Khan are equal clowns and yet labelled as secular party..no??

There are always exceptions, Like we did have non-corrupt ministers during UPA led rule. You can also find some leaders within BJP who aren't communal but stay mum when others in their ranks make noise. So can I claim that the said organisation is not communal or UPA led Government was involved in scams/corruption...

I know it was not your attention however you have almost given a justification to Sikh Pogrom..so watch your words when you post something on that sensitive matter...

I stated the following

"Tell me, why do you think the Congress mobs attacked Sikhs? Is it because they have some intrinsic hate towards Sikhism/Sikhs or is it because one of their community member killed their leader?"

How do you think I gave justification? I only stated that anti-sikh riots started after Indira Gandhi's assassination by Sikh body guards. Tell me which sentence of mine was justifying the violence against Sikhs?

Anyways you are claiming that BJP has intense hatred for Muslims...right?? And your proof to that is statements by their leaders(even though they are hardly of any significance within party)..however do you have anything else apart from those statements?? If i have abject hatred for Muslims and i am the PM of this country for almost 2.5 years then surely i should have done something about it...no?? Similarly Vajpayee's 5 years should also have some tangible actions to settle Muslims for good...no??

Not just statements but their actions....

Riot-accused BJP leaders keep tempo high with fiery speeches

Source : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-with-fiery-speeches/articleshow/55266723.cms

So tell me why BJP let these riot accused to continue with their rhetoric? You state that these statements and actions are hardly significance while overlooking the fact that BJP has benefited because these very things.

Riot Rewards: BJP's Vote Share Increases After Hindu-Muslim Clashes

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.in/rohit-...vote-share-increases-after-hindu-muslim-clas/

BJP gains in polls after every riot, says Yale study

Source: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...riot-says-yale-study/articleshow/45378840.cms

Also please tell me what would you do if you were to be the PM of this country(with immense hatred against muslims) and have 5 year mandate? I am keen to know...

Vajpayee government required the support of coalition partners, all of them didn't share the ideology of BJP, for example TDP of the then Andhra Pradesh, so do you really think these parties would have let BJP or RSS take any over actions...

And now let me repeat what i said...Congress and Other parties play appeasement politics as we both agreed...their motivation is to cater to Muslim vote bank...BJP's votebank is hindu vote...they don't want to be upfront about it and thus RSS plays that role for them....in short all is just appeasement politics...the day congress will feel that Muslim vote bank is not in her interests they will switch gears and compete with RSS...Look how SP and BSP compete for Dalit and Muslim votes...this is mere politics...because one is after majority vote that is why they are labelled as communal...those who are after minority/dalit votes are labelled as secular...At the end of the day Social engineering is the sad reality of our politics...

Didn't Congress appease the Hindu community by opening Babri masjid gates? Both play appeasement politics but the RSS yearns and strives for Hindu Rashtra and I don't see Congress, SP or BSP trying to create a muslim Rashtra, that is the basic difference over here....

 

[deckingraj]

No I am not being stubborn, but let's understand what you are trying to state. You say that decisions taken by UPA led Government was influenced by Sonia Gandhi, but Modi government independently takes decision without the influence of RSS. Correct me if this is not what you stated or implied. You claim that RSS cadets bring "reviews and feedback" and in no way influences the government decisions whereas I have posted articles which clearly imply that it is RSS which "reviews" Modi led Government functioning. So I ask you again, who is RSS to review an elected government of India and is it right for a elected government to seek blessings from a Private Org and its leader? Please don't comeback stating that RSS helped BJP hence the exercise...

You are back to square one...I have told you that not just RSS but a hell lot of other organizations review govt. I have also explained that why Modi and his ministers attend RSS led reviews...so not sure what part you are missing here...It is logical for BJP to go to RSS led reviews...if you don't agree then atleast tell me why..no??

So you post some articles to prove your point that Sonia Gandhi controlled UPA led government, let me tell you that even I can post articles which claim that RSS controls BJP...

That was the whole freaking reason i asked you what proof you are looking at...see you have wasted my time...

So tell me when I say RSS is 10 Janpath of BJP, how is it wrong?

It is wrong because you yourself is claiming it and then asking me to prove how Sonia Gandhi controlled MMS...now coming to RSS part of it...i have already told you that RSS is the ideological mentor or BJP...however i am still to get from you is that one actions of Modi govt. that as per you is a dictate of RSS or its ideology...

Look at the first post of mine, I stated that RSS is the 10 Janpath of BJP led government, it was you who brought in the word "control" implying that Sonia Gandhi controlled the UPA led Government hence I asked you as to how you came to that conclusion and if you have any evidence to support that...

ok...then can you please describe in our own words what you mean by "RSS is the 10 Janpath of BJP"...i am not someone who shy away from accepting mistakes...

They may not be required in all cases but in some cases, they may be required. When we have natural calamity, a building collapse or a train accident. In most of the cases, Prime ministers, Chief ministers etc aren't required to visit if system is in place, it will be more of a namesake visit, but there may be instances where leaders are required to make decisions after accessing the situation so that an emergency system can be put in place. Hence the outrage over their absence.

That is the whole freaking problem...it is just semantics..we are not living in 1947..technology has already solved those issues....for all what you said can easily be done remotely...the leaders were not out for clubbing..no??

There are always exceptions, Like we did have non-corrupt ministers during UPA led rule. You can also find some leaders within BJP who aren't communal but stay mum when others in their ranks make noise. So can I claim that the said organisation is not communal or UPA led Government was involved in scams/corruption...

So other parties have exceptions and so does BJP however the other way...some are not communal rest are...and that's why they are communal party and others not...let me know if i get it wrong...

I stated the following
"Tell me, why do you think the Congress mobs attacked Sikhs? Is it because they have some intrinsic hate towards Sikhism/Sikhs or is it because one of their community member killed their leader?"
How do you think I gave justification? I only stated that anti-sikh riots started after Indira Gandhi's assassination by Sikh body guards. Tell me which sentence of mine was justifying the violence against Sikhs?

so this is not sounding like justification to you...They killed thousands because even though they don't hate Sikhs however did it because there leader was killed...as if IG was only a Hindu leader or those people were representing hindus...sorry but some of the reasoning here is pathetic...Congress led those killings because Rajiv Gandhi had to be portrayed as a saviour...All the mobs were organized...It was pure political..hindus actually saved Sikhs and not the other way around...Same is true for other parties...they use fault lines for their political benefits...not because they have some intrinsic hatred for any community... and that is why they are all communal and all secular at the same time...

Not just statements but their actions....Riot-accused BJP leaders keep tempo high with fiery speeches

What all those links prove?? The prove that political parties use such tactics for their political benifit..After 84 congress won 404 seats...Riot accused people in Congress have become ministers and still are senior members...so what are we actually talking here ?? Here is one news for you...Maximum number of riots that this country has seen is under Congress rule...even if you want to divide it per capita(number of riots under congress/number of congress terms) they will beat BJP hands down...and yet there is only one party that is communal...fair??

Also please tell me what would you do if you were to be the PM of this country(with immense hatred against muslims) and have 5 year mandate? I am keen to know...

Look if you have nothing to add then we can stop debating...otherwise stop posing my own questions to me...this is the last time i am going to entertain it...If i am a Muslim hater then I will go ahead and bring in some legislations, some policies which are detrimental to Muslim Faith....I would also encourage right wing people to go after muslim community and will provide them state support...i mean there are hell lot of things that i can do as a Muslim hater...so now give me some instances where you think GOI did anything like that under Vajpayee or Modi...

Vajpayee government required the support of coalition partners, all of them didn't share the ideology of BJP, for example TDP of the then Andhra Pradesh, so do you really think these parties would have let BJP or RSS take any over actions...

Fair enough...however BJP was still called communal and still speculated that Vajpayee govt. was controlled by RSS.."RSS is my soul" was Vajpayee's own word...that's a different story that Vajpayee proved them wrong...Anyways Modi has no such problems..how own party has majority...so 2.5 years in govt. surely there should be something out there to talk, no??

Didn't Congress appease the Hindu community by opening Babri masjid gates? Both play appeasement politics but the RSS yearns and strives for Hindu Rashtra and I don't see Congress, SP or BSP trying to create a muslim Rashtra, that is the basic difference over here....

What did i read above?? The basic difference is that you don't want to call spade a spade...it is commons sense that with 18% of population a muslim rashtra is not possible...so one has to be a fool to fall for it or even talk about it.....Give me one single action of BJP in govt. which was as detrimental to scores and scores of people as Shah bano case was in the name of appeasement politics...unfortunately depriving crores of muslim women their rights is of no significance to pseudo seculars

 

[Shankranthi]

No I am not being stubborn, but let's understand what you are trying to state. You say that decisions taken by UPA led Government was influenced by Sonia Gandhi, but Modi government independently takes decision without the influence of RSS. Correct me if this is not what you stated or implied. You claim that RSS cadets bring "reviews and feedback" and in no way influences the government decisions whereas I have posted articles which clearly imply that it is RSS which "reviews" Modi led Government functioning. So I ask you again, who is RSS to review an elected government of India and is it right for a elected government to seek blessings from a Private Org and its leader? Please don't comeback stating that RSS helped BJP hence the exercise...

You may have posted articles that IMPLIES something or the other.

So what ? I can write an article that implies that you are working with the ISI ....... does that make it true ?

Anyone can IMPLY anything, its called an ALLEGATION. ....... also known as talking rubbish and exercising "freedom of speech".

So you post some articles to prove your point that Sonia Gandhi controlled UPA led government, let me tell you that even I can post articles which claim that RSS controls BJP...

RSS remote control, BDJS leaks spark resentment in BJP

Source : http://english.manoramaonline.com/n...uble-bjp-national-council-meet-kozhikode.html

RSS asserted its political dominance over BJP: WikiLeaks

Source: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...-bjp-and-rss-control-over-party/1/150050.html

Controlling the party

Source: http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/rss-controlling-the-party/article6335653.ece

A dangerous influence: Modi govt under RSS control

Source: http://www.hindustantimes.com/colum...rss-control/story-6CC2UwjPV8z4yw4EvzlbBO.html

So tell me when I say RSS is 10 Janpath of BJP, how is it wrong?

Sonia Gandhi ran Puppet Singh. That is a well known story........... no amount of "white washing" is going to change that.

NaMo is the RSS. Mohan Bhagwat is his childhood friend, so there is no need for him to "control" Modi. In any case Modi has a duty to listens to all Indians, that includes RSS.

or are you saying that Mod should not listen to the RSS just because a few muslims like you don't like it ?

Look at the first post of mine, I stated that RSS is the 10 Janpath of BJP led government, it was you who brought in the word "control" implying that Sonia Gandhi controlled the UPA led Government hence I asked you as to how you came to that conclusion and if you have any evidence to support that...

Here is the proof of the Master Slave relationship between the Mistress and his PM slave.

The shameless PM , puppet singh,

THIS is how equals meet,

They may not be required in all cases but in some cases, they may be required. When we have natural calamity, a building collapse or a train accident. In most of the cases, Prime ministers, Chief ministers etc aren't required to visit if system is in place, it will be more of a namesake visit, but there may be instances where leaders are required to make decisions after accessing the situation so that an emergency system can be put in place. Hence the outrage over their absence.

Modi not only speaks but is also always present unlike puppet singh. So no need for fake "outrage" since he is always around.

There are always exceptions, Like we did have non-corrupt ministers during UPA led rule. You can also find some leaders within BJP who aren't communal but stay mum when others in their ranks make noise. So can I claim that the said organisation is not communal or UPA led Government was involved in scams/corruption...

Non corrupt UPA minister ?can you name ONE ? ....... ............

Not just statements but their actions....

Riot-accused BJP leaders keep tempo high with fiery speeches

Source : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-with-fiery-speeches/articleshow/55266723.cms

So tell me why BJP let these riot accused to continue with their rhetoric? You state that these statements and actions are hardly significance while overlooking the fact that BJP has benefited because these very things.

Riot Rewards: BJP's Vote Share Increases After Hindu-Muslim Clashes

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.in/rohit-...vote-share-increases-after-hindu-muslim-clas/

BJP gains in polls after every riot, says Yale study

Source: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...riot-says-yale-study/articleshow/45378840.cms

Riot accused means nothing, you have to be indicted by the court of Law.

If BJP gets rewarded after every Riot then its the proof that its the CONgress that is rioting. ........... or are you implying people LIKE riots ?

Also please tell me what would you do if you were to be the PM of this country(with immense hatred against muslims) and have 5 year mandate? I am keen to know...

Vajpayee government required the support of coalition partners, all of them didn't share the ideology of BJP, for example TDP of the then Andhra Pradesh, so do you really think these parties would have let BJP or RSS take any over actions...

No speculation or allegations are required. BJP has a full majority by itself and can do whatever it deems necessary. That is the reality.

Didn't Congress appease the Hindu community by opening Babri masjid gates? Both play appeasement politics but the RSS yearns and strives for Hindu Rashtra and I don't see Congress, SP or BSP trying to create a muslim Rashtra, that is the basic difference over here....

India is a Hindu Rashtra, so there is nothing wrong in RSS aspirations.

Which is why SC has never found it guilty of any wrong doing UNLIKE your SIMI.

 

[Shankranthi]

 

[ashok321]

In a hurry many 2K notes got printed with same numbers..Thanks to Modi's ill conceived ideas:

RIDICULOUS!

 

[The_Showstopper]

You are back to square one...I have told you that not just RSS but a hell lot of other organizations review govt. I have also explained that why Modi and his ministers attend RSS led reviews...so not sure what part you are missing here...It is logical for BJP to go to RSS led reviews...if you don't agree then atleast tell me why..no??

I am asking one simple question and you have been running round the circles. The government is elected and ruling India. They have direct access to people since parliament is a place where they have elected reps from various constituencies and who can voice the people's opinion. So if you are OK with BJP led government in being reviewed by RSS, then I believe you shouldn't have had a problem when UPA led government was reviewed by Sonia Gandhi and her aides. Is that so?

It is wrong because you yourself is claiming it and then asking me to prove how Sonia Gandhi controlled MMS...now coming to RSS part of it...i have already told you that RSS is the ideological mentor or BJP...however i am still to get from you is that one actions of Modi govt. that as per you is a dictate of RSS or its ideology...

You first claimed that MMS led government was controlled by Sonia and posted some links to prove your point and I replied with links which stated that RSS controls the BJP. And you want me believe that Sonia controlled UPA Government based on some links you posted but don't want to accept when similar sources are posted supporting RSS-BJP relation...

ok...then can you please describe in our own words what you mean by "RSS is the 10 Janpath of BJP"...i am not someone who shy away from accepting mistakes..

.
This is getting funnier. OK I meant that BJP is influenced/controlled by RSS. So tell me what did you make of my statement...
"RSS is the 10 Janpath of BJP".

That is the whole freaking problem...it is just semantics..we are not living in 1947..technology has already solved those issues....for all what you said can easily be done remotely...the leaders were not out for clubbing..no??

Tell me why leaders are elected? It is because they can lead people and solve their issues, Technology can help a leader access the situation but doesn't necessarily give him the exact picture. There is also a human instinct where followers/people expect their leaders to console/soothe them....

So other parties have exceptions and so does BJP however the other way...some are not communal rest are...and that's why they are communal party and others not...let me know if i get it wrong...

You named few people and instances of "secular parties" and then go on to compare them with BJP which has a history of communal streak. You can a post a few instances of these "secular parties" indulging in communalism but I can post many instances where BJP and its sister concerns were involved in communal incidents.

so this is not sounding like justification to you...They killed thousands because even though they don't hate Sikhs however did it because there leader was killed...as if IG was only a Hindu leader or those people were representing hindus...sorry but some of the reasoning here is pathetic...Congress led those killings because Rajiv Gandhi had to be portrayed as a saviour...All the mobs were organized...It was pure political..hindus actually saved Sikhs and not the other way around...Same is true for other parties...they use fault lines for their political benefits...not because they have some intrinsic hatred for any community... and that is why they are all communal and all secular at the same time...

How is that justification? Are you out of your mind? Did I say that Sikhs asked for it or deserved it? I explained the sequence of events. Please explain the following

Congress led those killings because Rajiv Gandhi had to be portrayed as a saviour

What do you mean by the above statement?

Congress or for that matter other "secular" parties don't have a ideological mentor which wants to create a Hindu rashtra where minorities aka people from non-dharmic religions are relegated to second class citizens. A source to support my statement....

The RSS claims to be inclusive of all those who are racially and culturally Hindu and places outside of the nation all those who adhere to and identify with a different faith or ethos, thus establishing the idea of a Hindu Rashtra as an exclusive one where minorities are, at best, second class citizens

Source: http://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/a-brief-outline-of-the-hindutva-movement/217966

What all those links prove?? The prove that political parties use such tactics for their political benifit..After 84 congress won 404 seats...Riot accused people in Congress have become ministers and still are senior members...so what are we actually talking here ?? Here is one news for you...Maximum number of riots that this country has seen is under Congress rule...even if you want to divide it per capita(number of riots under congress/number of congress terms) they will beat BJP hands down...and yet there is only one party that is communal...fair??

It is mostly BJP which indulged in such tactics(spreading religious tension) to benefit electorally. Are you telling me that Congress led mobs indulged into rioting so that they can gain power(Common dude they were anyways ruling and had no danger of losing power). So how does Congress benefit from riots since I have already shown you that it is BJP which benefits from riots?

Look if you have nothing to add then we can stop debating...otherwise stop posing my own questions to me...this is the last time i am going to entertain it...If i am a Muslim hater then I will go ahead and bring in some legislations, some policies which are detrimental to Muslim Faith....I would also encourage right wing people to go after muslim community and will provide them state support...i mean there are hell lot of things that i can do as a Muslim hater...so now give me some instances where you think GOI did anything like that under Vajpayee or Modi...

Fair enough...however BJP was still called communal and still speculated that Vajpayee govt. was controlled by RSS.."RSS is my soul" was Vajpayee's own word...that's a different story that Vajpayee proved them wrong...Anyways Modi has no such problems..how own party has majority...so 2.5 years in govt. surely there should be something out there to talk, no??

I am questing you because I wanted to know your views because you in your previous post stated the following...

If i have abject hatred for Muslims and i am the PM of this country for almost 2.5 years then surely i should have done something about it...no??

Ok lets speak about certain things under Modi rule(A few quotes from different news sources).

The Haryana Gauvansh Sanrakshan and Gausamvardhan Bill 2015, passed by the assembly unanimously, bans sale of all kinds of beef.

Haryana makes sale of beef a non-bailable offence
Cow slaughter a non-bailable offence in Maharashtra

This will disproportionately harm poor Muslims working in meat and leather industries. The BJP government in Haryana ha no issues serving beef to foreigners but restricts Indians most of whom affected are muslims.

In March alone: Subramanian Swamy, a senior BJP leader from the southern state of Tamil Nadu, declared in a speech that mosques, unlike temples, are not holy places and thus can be demolished. Two days later, the BJP chief minister of the northern state of Haryana announced that the teaching of the Bhagavad Gita, the Hindu holy text, would become mandatory throughout the state.

The likes of Sakshi Maharaj, Niranjan Jyoti and Sadhvi Prachi made one controversial and ludicrous statement after another, putting the Modi government in a sticky spot. While there came a warning from the Prime Minister himself, they continued with their statements. While Niranjan Jyoti rose to fame with her 'ramzade vs haramzade' comment, Sadhvi Prachi wanted Hindu women to have at least four children (this was to out-populate Muslims)

As the Muslim vote becomes less key to electoral victory, Muslims and their sentiments are not taken into account in controversial policy decisions. Hence, the expansion of the ban on cow slaughter to include bulls and oxens, and rewriting of history books to portray the Mughals as despicable bigots Rewriting of history is aimed at communalizing the past for demonizing the Muslims in the present.

The Prime Minister refuses to reprimand his Cabinet colleagues, restrain the members of his party members or silence the Sangh Parivar which claims to have propelled him to power in New Delhi. Speaking at the 50th Anniversary of foundation of its religious wing, Vishwa Hindu Parishad, Mr. Mohan Bhagwat, the RSS Sarsanghchalak bluntly stated that “Hindutva is the identity of India and it has the capacity to swallow other identities. We just need to restore those capacities.” In Cuttack, he asserted that India is a Hindu state and “citizens of Hindustan should be known as Hindus”.

RSS may make Aligarh Muslim University’s minority status an issue in poll bound Uttar Pradesh

Centre’s Opposition to minority status mala fide, Aligarh Muslim University tells Supreme Court

Just days after beef was banned in the State, the Maharashtra government has now officially scraped the five percent reservation to Muslims in education.

Muslim leaders have slammed the BJP for ignoring Muslims in its resolution, which proposed 16% reservation for the Marathas.

This is sure to trigger a controversy as despite a High Court ruling scrapping quota for Marathas, the BJP government passed a law in that regard, while the quota for Muslim has been removed despite the court approving it at least in the education sector.

Bombay high court intervened and restored the five percent reservation for Muslims in the educational sector, but not in government service, delivering a rebuke to the government. The Fadnavis government has challenged this order in the Supreme Court, and in the meantime also let an ordinance granting Muslims a five percent quota in education lapse.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi's Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) has vowed to disenfranchise millions of Muslim immigrants in Assam, waging a polarising election campaign in a bid to form its first government there.

On the eve of the recently conducted elections in several states, an irregular decision was taken by the joint parliamentary committee (JPC) reviewing the Citizenship Amendment Bill of 2016, which is another clear effort of the far-right regime in New Delhi to redefine the contours of Indian citizenship. Rather brazenly trying to make a distinction between which color (read faith) of immigrant would be "naturally" entitled to Indian citizenship as an immigrant, what the Narendra Modi-led government, which enjoys a brute majority in the lower house of India’s parliament, seeks to do is to privilege the non-Muslim migrant over the Muslim. The lower house of parliament has passed the Bill which is now being re-considered by a Joint Parliamentary Committee.

On the eve of the recently conducted elections in several states, an irregular decision was taken by the joint parliamentary committee (JPC) reviewing the Citizenship Amendment Bill of 2016, which is another clear effort of the far-right regime in New Delhi to redefine the contours of Indian citizenship. Rather brazenly trying to make a distinction between which color (read faith) of immigrant would be "naturally" entitled to Indian citizenship as an immigrant, what the Narendra Modi-led government, which enjoys a brute majority in the lower house of India’s parliament, seeks to do is to privilege the non-Muslim migrant over the Muslim. The lower house of parliament has passed the Bill which is now being re-considered by a Joint Parliamentary Committee.

All of these above statements/actions are either directly or indirectly supported by Modi.

Sources:

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/g...since-modi-became-prime-minister-2244780.html
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...foreigners-to-consume-beef/article8203700.ece
http://indianexpress.com/article/ex...u-rakshaks-mohammad-akhlaq-modi-govt-2954324/
http://www.reuters.com/article/india-politics-idUSKCN0WC2WR
http://www.alternet.org/world/how-i...nstitutionalize-discrimination-against-muslim
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-tells-supreme-court/articleshow/53730822.cms
http://www.milligazette.com/news/12...e-and-communal-violence-under-the-modi-regime
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-quota-say-activists/articleshow/54740727.cms
http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...ashtra-scraps-muslim-quota/article6962326.ece
http://www.rediff.com/news/column/do-muslims-have-a-future-under-a-bjp-government/20150305.htm

What did i read above?? The basic difference is that you don't want to call spade a spade...it is commons sense that with 18% of population a muslim rashtra is not possible...so one has to be a fool to fall for it or even talk about it.....Give me one single action of BJP in govt. which was as detrimental to scores and scores of people as Shah bano case was in the name of appeasement politics...unfortunately depriving crores of muslim women their rights is of no significance to pseudo seculars

The problem over here is that you don't want to understand/accept FACTS, Communalism and appeasement are two different things. You want to derive analogies and equate the politics played by BJP and other "secular" political parties. BJP backed by its mentor(or whatever name you want to give it) RSS is out their to create a Hindu Rashtra(where non-Dharmic minorities want have equal rights as Hindus) whereas other "secular" parties aren't out their to create some lala land from muslims/minorities in the name of appeasement while disregarding the rights of hindus. I already gave one such example where "scores and scores" of people have been affected(aka beef ban). How do you intend to compare unabashed communalism with women rights. Indian women through all ages have suffered ills like Sati, Dowry deaths, child marriages, Devadasi etc, So are you telling me that these issues were communal?