Roman Empire vs Han Empire

[Speeder 2]

The fascinating fact about this is that China still exists as China while the other former empires never got up again once it got vandalised, such as the Ottoman Empire, Mongol Empire or Roman Empire, even the British Empire practically shrunk back to its former size or vanished from the earth.

the fundamental reason for that IMO is the sheer size of continuous bloodline of the Han.

that is because the Han were "fortunate" ( thanks to the ice age) enough to be amonst the first major high IQ race to perfect the art of agriculture, hence being able to sustain an unusually large of population in one of the biggest corners of Eurasian continent, unlike their other empire counter parts.

 

[Aepsilons]

Roman Legionnaire Cavalry:

 

[Declein]

Comparison between Roman and Han Empires - Wikiversity

^^ This should help settle it.The metal production output is pretty telling, with Rome producing around 15 times more metal than Han..

The Roman empire was also demographically larger then the Han

I'm partially biased here, but I think the Han should thank their gods that the Romans weren't anywhere in the vicinity..

 

[Aepsilons]

Roman Legionnaire Cavalry, part 2:

 

[Speeder 2]

Roman Legionnaire Cavalry:

awesome photos! But these are the looking-good modern day mockups using modern day tech. I doubt the ancient Romans were such advanced.

 

[Aepsilons]

Rome's greatness was not only realized through her shear military power, but was realized through her architectural know-how:

 

[Speeder 2]

Comparison between Roman and Han Empires - Wikiversity

^^ This should help settle it.The metal production output is pretty telling, with Rome producing around 15 times more metal than Han..

The Roman empire was also demographically larger then the Han

I'm partially biased here, but I think the Han should thank their gods that the Romans weren't anywhere in the vicinity..

`... the Romans producing 15 times more metal than Han? `

And you believe that crap?




They were not even in the same league!

just take a look of the metal used in terracotta army for god´s sake.

those quantity alone were probably large enough to have kept a big part of those Roman metal factories busy for a large part of their entire existence!

And that was Qin empire. The following Han empire was even larger.

Go ask Gran Historian to dig you more concrete evidences.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Roman Legionnaire Cavalry:

Romans bread and butter was their infantry, their good cavalry was mostly auxiliaries.

 

[Speeder 2]

Rome's greatness was not only realized through her shear military power, but was realized through her architectural know-how:

Actually that´s a very good point.

Probably the only part of what the Romans did that was as great as the Han was about their architecture, IMO.

It was not superior, but just as spectacular as what the Han did with their wooden palaces, temples, bridges, and so on- the very original prototypes of most, if not all, East Asian traditional architectures that you see today.

 

[Declein]

`... the Romans producing 15 times more metal than Han? `

And you believe that crap?




They were not even in the same league!

just take a look of the metal used in terracotta army for god´s sake.

those quantity alone were probably large enough to have kept a big part of those Roman metal factories busy for a large part of their entire existence!

And that was Qin empire. The following Han empire was even larger.

Go ask Gran Historian to dig you more concrete evidences.

Sources are given in the link, feel free to dispute them with your own. (reputable ones, please). Actually 15 times is pretty conservative, it was probably higher..

Until then...terracotta army and any other assumptions are not important

Edit: btw, the annual estimated production of iron was 82 thousand metric tons. That's annual.
Do you believe that the terracotta army is buried with 82.000 tons of armor/weapons?

 

[TheTruth]

the fascinating fact is, that china does not exist as china since it never was the state it is now, neither had it the same people nor had it any impact on world history.

Wrong. China is world history. Without China there would be no West, again you'd be eating dung pies and being raped by your master on a plantation somewhere.

You don´t make yourself bigger when you show bad education. In the roman empire we had running water in evry house. Even with water pipes. There were pipes for hot and cold water and gigantic aquaduci which transported water from 1000 of km away.


Then it seems IQ is no guarantee for sucess.

haha no. Even poor citizens did not have running water but went to public wells to get it. Meanwhile in China most homes had some sort of rudimentary well, massive irrigation projects that turned deserts into forests, in-house sewage piping for disposal of food waste, etc.

Of course IQ isn't a guarantee of success. China had almost no natural resources, but because they're more intelligent they can keep their empire together and create massive growth despite that handicap.

Sources are given in the link, feel free to dispute them with your own. (reputable ones, please). Actually 15 times is pretty conservative, it was probably higher..

Until then...terracotta army and any other assumptions are not important

Edit: btw, the annual estimated production of iron was 82 thousand metric tons. That's annual.
Do you believe that the terracotta army is buried with 82.000 tons of armor/weapons?

Pretty sure that's iron ore production, not the finished product. Even in BC era single Chinese provinces produced several tens of tons of cast iron a year.

 

[Audio]

Legion's Triplex Helix stratagem

Say what? You mean triple line?

I was under the impression that the phalanx was an inherently rigid formation, with lots of little pieces that had to work in sync in order to always keep face front to enemy and that Roman's just used this to their advantage, ie outmaneuvering the Greeks.

 

[Aepsilons]

Say what? You mean triple line?

I was under the impression that the phalanx was an inherently rigid formation, with lots of little pieces that had to work in sync in order to always keep face front to enemy and that Roman's just used this to their advantage, ie outmaneuvering the Greeks.

Correct. The Triplex Acies / Triplex Helix was very useful against the rigid Phalanx formation. In fact, it was this rigidity that allowed Roman's Hammer and Anvil strategy to work very well against them.

A video of the Roman Army's Triplex Acies:

 

[Speeder 2]

Sources are given in the link, feel free to dispute them with your own. (reputable ones, please). Actually 15 times is pretty conservative, it was probably higher..

Until then...terracotta army and any other assumptions are not important

Edit: btw, the annual estimated production of iron was 82 thousand metric tons. That's annual.
Do you believe that the terracotta army is buried with 82.000 tons of armor/weapons?

No one knows how many tons of weaponaries in terracotta army site cuz the majority of tomb is still intact. Its size is there, a fact not assumptions unlike those of the Romans, for any logical person to see. Furthermore, it is only a tomb of Qin Dynasty, go figure the real deal military and civilian complex of much larger Han Empire that followed.

I can't refute those sources because I have no where to buy those books referred.

But technologically Han China was probably the most advanced society in the world at a time, a "USA" that is to say.

Overall speaking it's not exagerating to argue that Imperial China was almost peerless in the pre-industrialised world, on both quality and quantity. Any "source" that suggests the Romans producing more iron than Han China is almost laughable by common sense alone.

 

[Audio]

Correct. The Triplex Acies / Triplex Helix was very useful against the rigid Phalanx formation. In fact, it was this rigidity that allowed Roman's Hammer and Anvil strategy to work very well against them.

A video of the Roman Army's Triplex Acies:

View attachment 160873

how about this:

This is an exact picture from a book i had as a kid, can't actually believe i found it, in that book it was iirc stated that some legionaires hacked the pikes, creating holes in the pike wall, then going in, and from then went forward. On the right side of the pic it's actually depicted, one or two Romans behind the Greek first line.