Revolution for Pakistan

[Maula Jatt]

How many 'versions' of Islam do Pakistanis follow? And how many of those 'versions' say they can't live with the other 'version' ?

Every version keep calling each other kafir, murtid, ghustaakh
So you know...

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Every version keep calling each other kafir, murtid, ghustaakh
So you know...

Bro, give me real examples. How many versions? And which versions are calling others kafir, etc? Who are the top scholars of these 'versions' ??

 

[Jugger]

Norway has a very large % of atheists yet they are living their best life. I think this solution of "I need to become more Islamic to find the fix" is a bit myopic. The Islamic empire was a great example a thousand years ago but it translates very loosely now. Its okay to learn from the ones with a better success rate.

You have just subtly blasphemed...!
Although your point is very much valid and understandable, it will not be tolerated by a section of your society.
If a simple debate can turn into a struggle for life and death then there is no scope of change in that society.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Bro, give me real examples. How many versions? And which versions are calling others kafir, etc? Who are the top scholars of these 'versions' ??

Wahabis call barelvi kafir, bidat etc
Anti-shia sentiments are well known
Soft core stuff call them khustaaq, on this very forum people have expressed how they might not even be Muslim

Top public faces are these guys
You want 200 million people's fate decided by these people and according thier world view?
Are we research lab rat where every sort of experiment is to take place?

I won't let these guys anywhere near my dog and you want Thier world view to be imposed

On a nuclear powered nation of 200 million people?
Nah man this is not how invision this great nation
Our people deserve much better!

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Wahabis call barelvi kafir, bidat etc
Anti-shia sentiments are well known
Soft core stuff call them khustaaq, on this very forum people have expressed how they might not even be Muslim

Top public faces are these guys
You want 200 million people's fate decided by these people and according thier world view?
Are we research lab rat where every sort of experiment is to take place?

I won't let these guys anywhere near my dog and you want Thier world view to be imposed

On a nuclear powered nation of 200 million people?
Nah man this is not how invision this great nation
Our people deserve much better!

Okay, what these individuals are doing is Islamically wrong. Islam says we can't be doing takfir on one another over unclear or dhanni matters. Why can't we reject these individuals and take Islamic authority out of their hands? Why are we leaving Islam to these guys? Shouldn't we uplift the best people among us to be Islamic leaders?

 

[Maula Jatt]

You have just subtly blasphemed...!
Although your point is very much valid and understandable, it will not be tolerated by a section of your society.
If a simple debate can turn into a struggle for life and death then there is no scope of change in that society.

Cause Indians through thier norrow pov think Pakistan or even wider Muslim society is made up of suicidal junkies

What he said is reasonable and I have heard it in talk shows, YouTube

It doesn't carry the shock value of "blasphemy*

 

[Maula Jatt]

Okay, what these individuals are doing is Islamically wrong. Islam says we can't be doing takfir on one another over unclear or dhanni matters. Why can't we reject these individuals and take ownership of Islam? Why are we leaving Islam to these guys? Shouldn't we uplift the best people among us to be Islamic leaders?

First do that, give us your best guys

You can't have these guys as public faces of Islam and ask us to support islamic revolution

You know if Islamits spend half as much time getting strong internally, bring a revolution in Islam itself where we can look at it as something worthy of replicating

We wouldn't be having this conversation

To bring a revolution - bring a revolution in modern public Islam

Only than can we think of it something where a state can be run on that ideology

You're expecting nation to go through an Islamic revolution but the guys, leaders we see in public are morons

So naturally whenever a revolution happens these morons will lead the revolution

Surely that's not acceptable for most rational Muslims?

 

[Maula Jatt]

Norway has a very large % of atheists yet they are living their best life. I think this solution of "I need to become more Islamic to find the fix" is a bit myopic. The Islamic empire was a great example a thousand years ago but it translates very loosely now. Its okay to learn from the ones with a better success rate.

Islam has become crack cocaine for some section of society

Every issue is to be solved by Islam- if it's not working
More Islam is needed, my version is needed

We can't run states like that

 

[HAIDER]

Day by day Pakistan’s situation is getting worse. With TLP marching to Islamabad, rise in TTP attacks, political instability, civilian government vs establishment, rising inflation, worsening economy and, rupee falling in value the future for Pakistan doesn’t look so bright. The current system has failed the people. No political party is free from corruption and there’s no Justice in Pakistan. Any group turns up and holds the whole country hostage as TLP is doing that right now. If that wasn’t enough, Imran khan and ghq were just feuding over who becomes isi chief. Additionally, almost everyday threats from pdm to send the government home and rising inflation.
Pakistan needs a revolution a PEACEFUL revolution. We need a new system in place! A system that can ensure justice for the poor. A system that can deal with these corrupt elites ruining and looting Pakistan. A peaceful revolution now will save Pakistan from a bloody revolution in the future. With all the troubles we have in Pakistan right now more and more people will be pushed to support a revolution and it will lead to violence.
Parliament should be dissolved and a intern government set up for 90 days. In the meantime we decide what type of new system we want in Pakistan since the existing system failed us. IMO we need a Islamic presidential system. Pakistan was created on the name of Islam not nationalism or secularism. If we stray away from Islam and act secular or nationalistic than we’ll never be successful. We need a system where we have powerful leaders who make good decisions for the public and where there’s Justice for all.


PAKISTAN NEEDS A PEACEFUL ISLAMIC REVOLUTION!

Islam is social binding force but not the solution. Kafir are much more honest then muslim. Honesty is basic foundation..

 

[Maula Jatt]

Nationlism won’t work in a country that’s as ethnically diverse as Pakistan.
If we support nationalism the Pakistani Pashtuns will support afghans blindly, the Pakistani baloch will support afghan and irani baloch blindly and, the Pakistani Punjabis will support Indian Punjabi blindly.
If we start believing in nationalism we won’t ever be united we’ll always be divided.
Pakistan was created on the basis of Islam not nationalism!

Iran, turkey and literally dozens and dozens of countries

This is a foul islamist logic that I mean you can just look around and see it's simply not true

 

[untitled]

How many 'versions' of Islam do Pakistanis follow? And how many of those 'versions' say they can't live with the other 'version' ?

All the blood shed caused by the shia-sunni divide should be an eye opener for all

Why can't we reject these individuals and take Islamic authority out of their hands?

Why can't we replace the Imam of Red Mosque?

 

[untitled]

Total deaths due to shia Sunni divide in 70 years are less than murders over property disputes in 1 year

Pretty sure majority of these happened from the 80s. Why should armed gangs exist in a country trying to kill people who don't agree with their views on religion? Why should their be even 1 death?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

First do that, give us your best guys

You can't have these guys as public faces of Islam and ask us to support islamic revolution

You know if Islamits spend half as much time getting strong internally, bring a revolution in Islam itself where we can look at it as something worthy of replicating

We wouldn't be having this conversation

To bring a revolution - bring a revolution in modern public Islam

Only than can we think of it something where a state can be run on that ideology

You're expecting nation to go through an Islamic revolution but the guys, leaders we see in public are morons

So naturally whenever a revolution happens these morons will lead the revolution

Surely that's not acceptable for most rational Muslims?

Exactly, that's where we should be going.

But what you said applies to every section of Pakistani society. We have: corrupt maulvis, corrupt courts, corrupt politicians, and so on. The thing that's common across each isn't Islam in of itself or the institutions necessarily, but the people.

The corrupt people will always make sure the corrupt get to the top. So, you will have a situation where corrupt parties could one day support maulvis because they know if anything goes wrong, it's easy to blame maulvis. Meanwhile, the maulvis will blame the politicians.

It's not an 'us versus maulvi/politician/whoever' issue, but an 'us versus corruption' problem.

All the blood shed caused by the shia-sunni divide should be an eye opener for all

Why can't we replace the Imam of Red Mosque?

Go do it. Demand the powers at the top to do it. If they're not, then surely, they're benefitting from that guy (Imam of Red Mosque).

 

[Maula Jatt]

Total deaths due to shia Sunni divide in 70 years are less than murders over property disputes in 1 year

Symbolism matters

 

[untitled]

It's not an 'us versus maulvi/politician/whoever' issue, but an 'us versus corruption' problem.

All major political parties and generals have played the religious card to justify their corrupt rule and gotten away with it. Because people buy it.

It's only now that the clergy have become emboldened enough that they think they can rule directly without the need for an alliance with an mainstream political party