Return of Pandits to Kashmir, illegal immigrants on MHA list for Modi

[anonymus]

@SarthakGanguly

Would reestablishing Pandits in Kashmir be a wiser move?

It would do very little to dent demographic advantage that Sunni Muslims enjoys in valley but rehabilitation of Pandits in Jammu may cement demographic advantage that Hindus have in Jammu while while being substantial still has pockets of Muslim majority like in Rajouri, Poonch and specially Doda which is demographically contested.

Another drawback of reestablishing Pandits in Kashmir specially when done in small groups would be the threat of their being swamped by Muslims.

Also a lot of Pandits are well established in rest of India and would not like to go back.

 

[jandk]

@SarthakGanguly

Would reestablishing Pandits in Kashmir be a wiser move?

It would do very little to dent demographic advantage that Sunni Muslims enjoys in valley but rehabilitation of Pandits in Jammu may cement demographic advantage that Hindus have in Jammu while while being substantial still has pockets of Muslim majority like in Rajouri, Poonch and specially Doda which is demographically contested.

Another drawback of reestablishing Pandits in Kashmir specially when done in small groups would be the threat of their being swamped by Muslims.

Also a lot of Pandits are well established in rest of India and would not like to go back.

Why would Kashmiri Pandits want to be rehabilitated in Jammu? They want their homeland back not a simulation of it. Upper Jammu's demography has changed because of terrorism. Hindus from those areas have moved to Jammu city because of prevailing insecurity.

 

[anonymus]

Why would Kashmiri Pandits want to be rehabilitated in Jammu? They want their homeland back not a simulation of it. Upper Jammu's demography has changed because of terrorism. Hindus from those areas have moved to Jammu city because of prevailing insecurity.

That homeland has ceased to exist.

Unless we are ready to do one of these two things; Scrap art 370 and populate Kashmiri areas with outsiders or promote tendancy of Valley Sunnis to move to pakistan; i am sure that we have a Civil war, either active or dormant, on our hands.

Jammu does not mean Jammu city only.

 

[jandk]

That homeland has ceased to exist.

Unless we are ready to do one of these two things; Scrap art 370 and populate Kashmiri areas with outsiders or promote tendancy of Valley Sunnis to move to pakistan; i am sure that we have a Civil war, either active or dormant, on our hands.

Jammu does not mean Jammu city only.

Of course I know Jammu does not only refer to Jammu city. By Upper Jammu I am talking about Poonch, Rajouri, Doda - these are troubled hotspots from where Hindus have been relocating to Jammu city or other safe places like Udhampur.
Kashmiri Pandits should be armed. There won't be any civil war. KPs need to assert themselves and now, there is a huge army presence in the valley. No way can KMs repeat 1990 again. I know some Dogras who have moved to the valley. Many used to live there before 1990 too. Things are different now.

 

[anonymus]

Of course I know Jammu does not only refer to Jammu city. By Upper Jammu I am talking about Poonch, Rajouri, Doda - these are troubled hotspots from where Hindus have been relocating to Jammu city or other safe places like Udhampur.
Kashmiri Pandits should be armed. There won't be any civil war. KPs need to assert themselves and now, there is a huge army presence in the valley. No way can KMs repeat 1990 again. I know some Dogras who have moved to the valley. Many used to live there before 1990 too. Things are different now.

I am advocating a variation of this. Arm Kasmiri Pandits and Dogras and settle KP's in District like Doda where Muslims only a slender majority ( of 55% i think ).

We cannot secure Kashmir perpetually except doing China or Russia on KM's asses but we could easily secure whole of Jammu region.

Change Doda demographically, and throw out Poonch muslims into neighboring Pakistan if there is ever a case that Kashmir would become independent. It would be wiser to secure areas south of Pir Panjal demographically.

 

[jandk]

I am advocating a variation of this. Arm Kasmiri Pandits and Dogras and settle KP's in District like Doda where Muslims only a slender majority ( of 55% i think ).

We cannot secure Kashmir perpetually except doing China or Russia on KM's asses but we could easily secure whole of Jammu region.

Change Doda demographically, and throw out Poonch muslims into neighboring Pakistan if there is ever a case that Kashmir would become independent. It would be wiser to secure areas south of Pir Panjal demographically.

Here is a map:

I agree with you in that we need to save Jammu. The good thing is that Poonch and Rajouri are the least populated areas in Jammu Division. I really think that Dogras and KPs need to have more kids. The fertility rate of muslims is higher in J&K like everywhere else. This is a problem too.

 

[anonymus]

Here is a map:

I agree with you in that we need to save Jammu. The good thing is that Poonch and Rajouri are the least populated areas in Jammu Division. I really think that Dogras and KPs need to have more kids. The fertility rate of muslims is higher in J&K like everywhere else. This is a problem too.

Poonch and Rajouri would not be a problem. If Kashmir breaks away ie we let it go, These two districts could be easily cleansed as they are close to border. Just throw them out and shut the gates. Doda needs to be fixed.

 

[Yeti]

First let Indians settle in our own land Kashmir! the same way Hans have settled in Tibet or Xinjiang if we call it a integral part of India that way the Pandits will come back too as security will be ensured.

 

[anonymus]

First let Indians settle in our own land Kashmir! the same way Hans have settled in Tibet or Xinjiang if we call it a integral part of India that way the Pandits will come back too as security will be ensured.

I too agree to that. If we think that Kashmir with muslim majority would remain an integral part of India forever, we are delusional.

 

[Yeti]

I too agree to that. If we think that Kashmir with muslim majority would remain an integral part of India forever, we are delusional.

Problem is do we have the political will to do it? I feel it is a tough task to do so but like the Jews have done in West Bank we should just build settlements ourselves and let's see if the Indian govt has the will to remove them.

 

[jandk]

Poonch and Rajouri would not be a problem. If Kashmir breaks away ie we let it go, These two districts could be easily cleansed as they are close to border. Just throw them out and shut the gates. Doda needs to be fixed.

Doda is a real problem. Take Kishtwar in Doda for example. Kishtwar is a mixed Dogri-Kashmiri region culturally and linguistically. Unfortunately Kishtwari Hindus (which were quite numerous) have moved to Jammu and now Kishtwar has a substantial muslim majority. To add salt to injury, a lot of Kashmiris seem to have moved there and I wouldn't be surprised if Kishtwari muslims consider themselves Kashmiris.

 

[Soumitra]

Kashmir is next to Pakistan unlike Gujraat, we can send weapons an attack on Kashmir will bring the onset of hostilities between India and Pakistan

Check the map stupid. Gujarat is also next to pakistan

 

[Chronos]

I'm not sure if KPs really want to go back to be honest. Some of them surely do but many of them have made a great living outside and won't want to come back for they have nothing to come back to. Many KPs in Jammu don't even know kashmiri. It is probably impossible to settle a huge number of them back in the valley. Tensions will rise at any time. Kashmir Valley is like a powder keg waiting to explode at all times. We Dogras have already sacrificed a lot by first accomodating KPs en masse. Dogra culture is disappearing from Jammu altogether. With large numbers of Kashmiri muslims, I'm not sure if Jammu will be a Dogra city in the future. It isn't just about religion. It's about culture too. Dogras want to protect their culture. What's wrong with that? Kashmir Valley still strongly retains its kashmiri culture because they don't let others move in.
If it is possible to move KPs back to Kashmir, I and most Dogras would fully support this move.

Hmm... I seem to recall you saying that there should be an end to North-South divide. But I read your post now.

So if you are right to worry about Dogras being lost in the shuffle, are Southies not justified to be worried about being swamped by outsiders?

Or the Shiv Sena?

You seem to have a warped conception of secularism based on the timeline inability of the respective Indian governments to ensure the rule of law. Indians generally regard the law as an inconvenience which is only to be applied when there is a disaster of some sort or another. Had the government of India taken drastic and immediate steps when there was rioting in Kashmir against the Pandits by the Muslims, the issue could have been nipped in the bud and the inconvenience of current day prevented then and there. This was not a Jihad against the Pandits where the Muslims of India en masse gathered arms and threw the Pandits out. Secularism hasn't failed India. In fact it is the ideal blueprint for India. It has held India together. Try applying communal politics on a large scale to India and watch the Union fragment into different nations. That can be the only result

Drop it my friend, you know how this whole song and dance goes.

Here is a map:

I agree with you in that we need to save Jammu. The good thing is that Poonch and Rajouri are the least populated areas in Jammu Division. I really think that Dogras and KPs need to have more kids. The fertility rate of muslims is higher in J&K like everywhere else. This is a problem too.

Can't Jammu and Ladakh be seperated as separate states? Then 'encourage' Kashmiris to stick to their states?

 

[jandk]

Hmm... I seem to recall you saying that there should be an end to North-South divide. But I read your post now.

So if you are right to worry about Dogras being lost in the shuffle, are Southies not justified to be worried about being swamped by outsiders?

Or the Shiv Sena?



Drop it my friend, you know how this whole song and dance goes.

There are 80 million Marathis in this world. There are how many millions of South Indians? Dogras only number less than 5 million and that's including the ones in Himachal Pradesh. Our homeland is Jammu. Why should we sacrifice it? Kashmiris don't let anyone move in. Dogras, Kashmiri Pandits, Ladakhis, etc. cannot relocate to Srinagar even if they want to in any significant number because of the constant security threat. No one moves to Ladakh because there is nothing there. In the whole state, only Jammu is bearing the burden of multiculturalism.

 

[Contrarian]

LOL what do you guys call us? "Dangar"(Stupid)?
It's strange that there was hatred between Dogras and KPs. During Dogra rule, KPs were priveleged and had protection in the valley from the KMs- that is why they could not kick you out in the past century before 1990. The mutual dislike (I wouldn't call it hatred) was misplaced.
I think the Shias are being further alienated in the Valley as the Kashmiri muslims are getting radicalized and turning into wahabis. I know some Shias from Kargil. They are cool. Most of them love India and Iran(which they consider their second home oddly enough). They hate Saudi and Pakistan. Also they prefer Jammu to Srinagar because of obvious reasons. And we both know how much the Ladakhi Buddhists hate KMs . These days Ladakhis are everywhere in Jammu.

It is time for GoI to declare Ladakh as a UT.