Retired U.S. general on how to handle IS and why we lost in Iraq, Afg

[MastanKhan]

This is atrocious!!
I dont know how many more such cases havent come to light.
But then I dont understand the ppl who sympathize with ISIS,after all those guys also do the same thing.

Hmm,yes PA or ISI should not have sheltered OBL.
But its very unrealistic to think that Pakistan could've stopped US army from entering Iraq or Afghan. It was not about just OBL but al-qaeeda.

Hi,

You misunderstood me---when the U S asked Mullah Omar to hand over OBL in 2001 and he refused---that is when the pak army should have gone in and taken him out---the next red flag came when the u s military intentionally let OBL escape at tora bora---pak military should have understood that there was a lots of deception on part of the u s military----.

Later on when the u s administration and George Bush and then Pres Obama in later statements stated that OBL had become a nobody---and Al qada had moved ahead without him---pak military alert should have gone up anther notch.

OBL was trained by the central agency during the afghan war----they trained him well to operate and hide---the agency has a very advanced and basic training in high profile hiding----they say---if you want to hide in a jungle become and act like a tree----if you want to hide between the rocks---then become and act like a rock---if you want to hid in a big city live in a gigantic mansion in the middle of a small to mid size city---with high security walls---.

And if you don't want to leave any footprints----then don't use any cell phone, regular phone, any electronic communication device at all----. OBL did everything to the book---just like his agency handlers had taught him.

It maybe unrealistic to think that Pakistan could have stopped---atleast if it would have given its 100% to take out OBL.

As for pak military----the raid in Abbottabad with was the permission and alliance of pak military----. You know that one of the choppers crashed and burnt. One chopper left with OBL's body and family---there were 10 plus american troops on the ground for another 45 inutes to an hour waiting for the big chinook helicopter to come pick them up---and this chinook was coming from across the border.

There is supposedly this Pakistani military academy a mile away----there is a military action taking place for an hour and 15 minutes and no pak military shows up for any action----just a few policemen to keep the crowd away----funny isn't it.

The movie zero dark thirty-----the phone number for the courier was given to the agency by ISI----Kiyani had given a carte blanche to the u s for the raid---he feared for his life and that of his family and never acknowledged it.

Anyway---let's get back to Iraq----. What is ISIS---all the perverts from Europe and America and other nations---who's brain child is this organization---from where does this pop up and why does it play so much havoc in the society. The thing is that how is it able to sell its oil in the world market----with the u s / europe in control of everything---and still transactions in millions are being made by isis----.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

And about Iraq----after the first gulf war---when daddy B visited that area----Saddam had ordered his assassination---it was a failed attempt---and Jr wanted to revenge that as well. After the first gulf war---there were a lots of money spent on newer weapons systems----the defence contractors wanted desperately to test them as well.

In one of the next posts I will write about what was one of the reasons to get into the war.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@MastanKhan Sir

It is well known that Pakistani Half hearted Cooperation in the WOT and the alleged
help to OBL ; Haqqanis ;Taliban etc was all because of US Indifference to
Pakistani demands on Kashmir ie pressurising India for a compromise

Pak Army wanted US to go away from Afghanistan EMPTY handed

But US found and killed OBL and it has very badly damaged Pakistan's image
that OBL was found there

From Pakistan's International IMAGE perspective
it would have been a Million times better if OBL
had NOT been found in Abottabad

And Salala and the US Pakistan Cold War for nearly a year thereafter
happened right after OBL raid

Salala was a deliberate act by the US ; it would NOT have happened
had PA / ISI would have helped in OBL raid as YOU say

 

[Levina]

Madam 9/11 was a very huge attack on USA not just in terms of casualties
but psychologically too Americans felt humiliated

Some body had dared to attack mainland USA after Pearl Harbour

And you must remember that there were plenty of celebrations in OIC countries
post 9/ 11 ; OIC countries were waiting to see how US responds

US wanted to give a message that you cannot just get away after attacking America

Attacking Iraq satisfied the US desire for revenge

Nope...I dont agree.
Iraq invasion had nothing to do with 9/11,it was purely for economic reasons.
Afghan was attacked in 2001 and Iraq invasion happened 2 years later.
Saddam had also decided to trade in euros rather than in dollars which would have weakened dollars position,this just another reason to my list of reasons that I had already posted.Had the OPEC started trading in euros then dollars would 've fallen by 20-40%....read it somewhere

Hi,

You misunderstood me---when the U S asked Mullah Omar to hand over OBL in 2001 and he refused---that is when the pak army should have gone in and taken him out---the next red flag came when the u s military intentionally let OBL escape at tora bora---pak military should have understood that there was a lots of deception on part of the u s military----.

One, I think Mullah Omar's refusal had nothing to do with Pakistan and thats the reason PA did nothing at that point.
Two,you said OBL was "intentionally" allowed to escape...but why so?

Anyway---let's get back to Iraq----. What is ISIS---all the perverts from Europe and America and other nations---who's brain child is this organization---from where does this pop up and why does it play so much havoc in the society. The thing is that how is it able to sell its oil in the world market----with the u s / europe in control of everything---and still transactions in millions are being made by isis----.

ISIS sells oil at a lower rate and ergo has many customers.These militants are selling oil at an average of $40 a barrel, compared with $85.40 per barrel settled by international benchmark Brent oil.And who doesnt know most of the crude is moved via trucks along smuggling routes on the Turkish border, Jordan or Iraq.

Hi,

And about Iraq----after the first gulf war---when daddy B visited that area----Saddam had ordered his assassination---it was a failed attempt---and Jr wanted to revenge that as well. .

Interesting!!!

 

[VCheng]

Hi,

.........

Then talk about the humiliation at abu ghraib----what kind of perversity the americans have with nudity of their prisoners---and dumping them on top of each other and degrading Iraqi men praded naked in front of women guards---by the women guards---what a height of perversity----.

..............

Levina,

Let's talk about Iraqi women and girls----women and girls raped---and gang raped----their porno movie flicks on porno sites----.
One case came out---where this sergeant saw this 14 years old girl---he wanted her---came back with his troops----barged into the house---shot the father---shot her 3 brothers----two uncles---mother----3 sisters----then the troop gang raped her----then they killed her-----then they lit the whole family on fire with thermal-----there was no evidence left. So many innocent raped and killed.

................

Sir, please do not forget to add that the the perpetrators of these crimes were apprehended, put on trial and sentenced.

 

[asad71]

Who will believe that America wages war only to win? USA is made to wage war, manufacture conflicts and plan famines as directed by/the/Illuminati/NeoCons/MNCs/Freemasons/International Bankers. Wars,conflicts and famines themselves are the objects of these satanic syndicate. They don't bother about the outcome.They want to profit by these. They want power and ever more enhanced power. They want to sell their deadly wares. They want to rebuild what they have destroyed. They want nations to borrow money so that they can make profit and keep these borrowers under control.

 

[Donatello]

@MastanKhan Sir

It is well known that Pakistani Half hearted Cooperation in the WOT and the alleged
help to OBL ; Haqqanis ;Taliban etc was all because of US Indifference to
Pakistani demands on Kashmir ie pressurising India for a compromise

Pak Army wanted US to go away from Afghanistan EMPTY handed

But US found and killed OBL and it has very badly damaged Pakistan's image
that OBL was found there

From Pakistan's International IMAGE perspective
it would have been a Million times better if OBL
had NOT been found in Abottabad

And Salala and the US Pakistan Cold War for nearly a year thereafter
happened right after OBL raid

Salala was a deliberate act by the US ; it would NOT have happened
had PA / ISI would have helped in OBL raid as YOU say

When will you stop crying?

 

[gambit]

Hi,

What a bunch of bull crap that is---- L Paul Bremmer----man so dedicated to the military that he wears combat boots with his suits---.

So do journalists, UN aid workers, and just about any foreigners who needs to travel in Iraq in whatever their duties. We even see IS thugs wears US-style combat boots. How desperate are you in criticizing US in Iraq that you discarded all common sense.

What a whitewash----only for those who were not following the war----, His predecessor---who was there for maybe 2 to 3 days---openly made statements of using Iraqi military for development projects---and then he is discharged andthis fake comes in.

If you have any shred of intellectual honesty about this subject, then you would not call it a 'whitewash'. You would take seriously the arguments from the people who were directly involved in the situation, arguments that contains facts and reasons that led to whatever decisions they made.

But the bottom line is that you are blessed with hindsight to use to support your already made up mind: That the disbandment of the Iraqi military was a bad idea.

You have no interests in details. Period. That, sir, is the hallmark of an intellectually dishonest person.

The news of disbanding was all over the media.

So what ? Can you even imagine yourself, not as Bremer, but just someone in Iraq at that time ? What conclusion could YOU have come up with when faced with IMMEDIATE crises like the ones Bremer said he and his people found ?

Gambit---the U S military does not have the brains to think with---it can only unleash death destruction like none seen before---other than that---it is clueless.

The US military is not perfect and we never said we are. But I would wager that when the time of a crisis comes, anyone in the world would rather hedge his/her bet with US than with say...the Chinese, the Russians, the incompetent UN, or even your Pakistan's ?

Then talk about the humiliation at abu ghraib----what kind of perversity the americans have with nudity of their prisoners---and dumping them on top of each other and degrading Iraqi men praded naked in front of women guards---by the women guards---what a height of perversity----.

Pales in comparison to what 3rd world despots, the kind your part of the world constantly produces, have created.

 

[SQ8]

You have no interests in details. Period. That, sir, is the hallmark of an intellectually dishonest person.

Pales in comparison to what 3rd world despots, the kind your part of the world constantly produces, have created.

While I dont usually jump on disagreements between American citizens.. what you boldly make the statement of.. you are yourself guilty of. In this case its burying your head into the sand in a reactionary argument. The red part makes it even more dishonest and self-decieving a statement if you believe that the worlds oldest democracy and a general exemplar of the modernized world has to ensure itself that somehow because the 3rd world is worse off.. it has no need to implement changes in its policies or ideals.

I am suddenly inclined to think that you might stand by if a person was being raped in the US on the pretext that a hundred more are done so within.. say India or Pakistan or China.. hence you dont need to be worried about the heinous act??

 

[he-man]

While I dont usually jump on disagreements between American citizens.. what you boldly make the statement of.. you are yourself guilty of. In this case its burying your head into the sand in a reactionary argument. The red part makes it even more dishonest and self-decieving a statement if you believe that the worlds oldest democracy and a general exemplar of the modernized world has to ensure itself that somehow because the 3rd world is worse off.. it has no need to implement changes in its policies or ideals.

I am suddenly inclined to think that you might stand by if a person was being raped in the US on the pretext that a hundred more are done so within.. say India or Pakistan or China.. hence you dont need to be worried about the heinous act??

Looks like a viet denying his roots.......disgusting statement considering his own lineage

 

[gambit]

Probably Yes, Probably No.

US never failed on military level. It's failure were of political nature. US failed to understand that dictatorship is natural mode of existence in middle east ,and "bring democracy in middle east yipee yipee yay" was a cultural marxist ideological project bound to fail in a region where people,if given right to elect their rulers would vote for lowest form of Scum they could find in their country.Liberals turned US army into a version of their ideological militia.

It would have been much better if US had replaced one dictator in middle east with another like it use to do in 1950-80 time period.

There is no 'Probably Yes' about it.

One of the stupidest argument is the US 'failed' to install democracy in <whatever>:

Next was their failure to establish democracy in both Afghan and Iraq.

Source: Retired U.S. general on how to handle IS and why we lost in Iraq, Afg | Page 3

As if the person who made that idiotic criticism have any clue on how to politically rebuild a country after an ADMITTEDLY atrocious political system have been removed.

You removed a political regime. Fine. What do you replaced it -- with ? What you know best, of course. So if you are a dictator, you would replace what was removed with what you know best -- another dictator.

We did not 'failed' to give Iraq tools to make the transition from being a dictatorship to a functional democratic country.

Clue for the clueless: IRAQ ALREADY HAVE THOSE TOOLS.

Even under Saddam Hussein, the Iraqi government had institutionally distinct legislature, judicial, and executive branches. What the US did was to actually placed those institutions back into the hands of the locals. We had political scientists helping, not dictating, the Iraqis on how to use those institutions according to what they were originally intended to be and perform. Iraq also have their own Western educated political scientists involved in the rebuilding process.

We did not want to replace a dictator with another dictator. Leave that path to the Russians, the Chinese, and assorted ME dictators because that is what they know best.

As for Afghanistan, everybody know that country is hopeless. At the risk of sounding like a bigot, the Afghanis are tribalistic in mentality, largely uneducated, and not a people ready for grand scale democratic institutions.

Finally, given the mess that is your India, it is tough for this American, let alone the other Americans on this forum, to take seriously any criticisms from the Indian members here over our ventures in the world.

 

[gambit]

Looks like a viet denying his roots.......disgusting statement considering his own lineage

Ah yes...The typical quasi-racist jab when unable to debate rationally. Do you really want to go there ? Your India is rich in sources that I can use, kid.

 

[he-man]

Ah yes...The typical quasi-racist jab when unable to debate rationally. Do you really want to go there ? Your India is rich in sources that I can use, kid.

Mind ur business and tongue old man,u brought racist vibe into it not me.

 

[gambit]

While I dont usually jump on disagreements between American citizens.. what you boldly make the statement of.. you are yourself guilty of. In this case its burying your head into the sand in a reactionary argument. The red part makes it even more dishonest and self-decieving a statement if you believe that the worlds oldest democracy and a general exemplar of the modernized world has to ensure itself that somehow because the 3rd world is worse off.. it has no need to implement changes in its policies or ideals.

I am suddenly inclined to think that you might stand by if a person was being raped in the US on the pretext that a hundred more are done so within.. say India or Pakistan or China.. hence you dont need to be worried about the heinous act??

We have our own standards to go by. No Americans on this forum ever tried to justified or explained away what a few US soldiers did to those prisoners. What I was talking about is the degree of involvement of heinous acts into institutions like the military, for example. In the many dictatorships YOU know well enough, tortures are common place and usually the FIRST tool in the cabinets. Do you really think that an organization like the ACLU can, not only exist, but is politically and socially powerful, in countries like your friend China, or Russia, or even your own Pakistan ?

 

[gambit]

Mind ur business and tongue old man,u brought racist vibe into it not me.

What does my origin have to do this, kid ?