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‘Restricting military aid to Pakistan will hurt critical US interests’

This is incorrect. Initially reports indicated this was the case, but facts have emerged it was Pakistan who made the request for the F16s, all 18 of them, in fact.

Sartaj Aziz admitted as much. He talked about 'financing' issues that shortened the request to eight.

All hearsay because you have only read such things on the internet. Fact remains that the Obama administration has admitted that they made the offer to Pakistan. Don't try to twist this fact.
 
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So Obama is doing this to make trouble for his successor?
To the contrary, it's Mr. Trump that is the odd-man-out. Witness the Republican Party controlled Senate vote in favour of the latest F-16 deal with Pakistan. Most Democrats and Republicans understand the importance of Pakistan but Trump is of a completely different stripe. His foreign policy beliefs are based on pure emotion and prejudice with no thought of America's historic security ties.
 
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It's not that they just "poles apart in performance", it's that they are designed for two different missions. The block 52 series is really a multi-role fighter that can fight air-to-air, deep strike, even anti-shipping missions with it's Harpoon missile launch capability. The F-16'V' is optimized for air defence. It started as an upgrade for Taiwan’s F-16A/B fleet but it's market niche is to fill out a fighter role for those countries that the F-35 is just to expensive to buy in large numbers. The 'V' model will have the latest in radar SABR + SNIPER infrared detection, new glass cockpit, etc.

As to PAF getting it, honestly, I think the biggest single factor in that equation is the outcome of the US presidential election. If Mr. Trump wins, then I doubt any modern fighters will be sold to Pakistan. If any other candidate wins, then I think there is a very good chance for sales. It is really sad that such is the case as Pakistan is so important, but that is my honest opinion.

Thanks for your honest and humble opinion. I believe Pakistan and US should strengthen their strategic partnership and also should beware of third party who is trying to stir up trouble in Pak-US historic relations.

:pakistan::usflag:
 
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LOL The American aid amounts to peanuts and has throughout the years decreased so much that nothing much has remained. Besides, the economic aid plays no significant role and even the Americans understand this.
You seem to be committing the fallacy of arguing from ignorance:

chart%201.png

link

What is there to insult? Your source of information is Fox news.
Sorry, don't watch Fox.

If anything, the Americans are the architect and mastermind of Cold War Jihad against Russia.
Most relevant to Pakistan is that the Carter Administration, led by the dispossessed Polish aristocrat and National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, subtly encouraged the U.S.S.R. to invade Afghanistan, seeing the country as "Russia's Vietnam" - a trap for its military that would sink the Soviet economy. Z.B. knew that the I.S.I. under Bhutto had already established a guerilla presence in Afghanistan.

The Americans have a habit of sponsoring and arming "good" rebel and Jihadi groups to do their bidding all over the world.
Pakistan was under embargo until mid-1982. Until then the arms came from Israel with the U.S. as conduit, while money came from the Saudis. But Pakistan was in the driver's seat the whole way.

The Chinese say, "Feed a man to fish and you've fed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you've fed him for life." The Chinese do not say that you are forever responsible for his actions afterwards - Pakistanis' justification for blaming America for everything that goes wrong, including their own choices.

...Most Democrats and Republicans understand the importance of Pakistan -
I understand the importance of Pakistan. I don't understand the importance of Pakistan getting more F-16s.
 
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To the contrary, it's Mr. Trump that is the odd-man-out. Witness the Republican Party controlled Senate vote in favour of the latest F-16 deal with Pakistan. Most Democrats and Republicans understand the importance of Pakistan but Trump is of a completely different stripe. His foreign policy beliefs are based on pure emotion and prejudice with no thought of America's historic security ties.

Trump is a loony, but don't think that everything he says is based on emotion and fiction. Despite Trump's many shortcomings and stupidities he has one quality which every person can learn from. It is to speak your mind openly.

I like it when Trump openly speaks his mind about his plans to arm India to the teeth and snatch away the nukes from Pakistan. Pakistan should be prepared for open hostility and enmity with those that arm our enemies and don't shy away from admitting it. Pakistan should be prepared at its fullest.

You seem to be committing the fallacy of arguing from ignorance:

chart%201.png

link

Sorry, don't watch Fox.

Most relevant to Pakistan is that the Carter Administration, led by the dispossessed Polish aristocrat and National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski, subtly encouraged the U.S.S.R. to invade Afghanistan, seeing the country as "Russia's Vietnam" - a trap for its military that would sink the Soviet economy. Z.B. knew that the I.S.I. under Bhutto had already established a guerilla presence in Afghanistan.

Pakistan was under embargo until mid-1982. Until then the arms came from Israel with the U.S. as conduit, while money came from the Saudis. But Pakistan was in the driver's seat the whole way.

The Chinese say, "Feed a man to fish and you've fed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you've fed him for life." The Chinese do not say that you are forever responsible for his actions afterwards - Pakistanis' justification for blaming America for everything that goes wrong, including their own choices.

I understand the importance of Pakistan. I don't understand the importance of Pakistan getting more F-16s.

LOL at the outdated graph... I knew that is the best you could come up with.

Of course you do watch Fox. It is your fav channel.

Whatever man. You keep the history lesson to yourself. It is a given that the Americans armed and trained Jihadi groups against the former USSR. No amount of history lessons can change this fact. If Pakistan is guilty, the Americans are double guilty. Crying over split milks has no use. Today, your country is mired with problems around the world. From ISIS to a stagnant economy and angry masses who think they don't win anymore. Don't lecture me about history. Fix your problems, stop being arrogant and admit your failures. On the one hand, you want to build coalitions to fight your own creation ISIS. On the other hand, you blame everyone except yourself for your own wrongful decisions. You cannot have it both ways.

As for the F-16s. We don't want your F-16s. Tell Obama to stop offering them to us.
 
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To the contrary, it's Mr. Trump that is the odd-man-out. Witness the Republican Party controlled Senate vote in favour of the latest F-16 deal with Pakistan. Most Democrats and Republicans understand the importance of Pakistan but Trump is of a completely different stripe. His foreign policy beliefs are based on pure emotion and prejudice with no thought of America's historic security ties.
the deal was in favour by 71 and opposed by 24 and 5 no shows. the list of who voted what
is below as well as some transcripts.

Pakistan looks to buy another 10 F-16s | Page 3
 
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I like it when Trumps openly speaks his mind about his plans to arm India to the teeth and snatch away the nukes from Pakistan. Pakistan should be prepared for open hostility and enmity with those that arm our enemies and don't shy away from admitting it. Pakistan should be prepared at its fullest.
Except Pakistan would be preparing for something that is not likely to happen. 1. Trump is most likely, not only NOT going to win the election, he will destroy the Republican Party at the national level in the process. 2. If by some fluke, he does get elected president, he would face tough opposition for much of what he has campaigned on in foreign policy, in the Congress. Don't confuse the bigoted rantings of Trump for what Congress thinks, or our armed forces, or the American people.
 
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It's still not clear to me how providing F-16s to Pakistan will help Pakistan "take decisive action against the Haqqani network."

Ask USA, Pakistan could have gone to Russia or China for jets. USA operates many CIA cells inside Pakistan, I don't think they would like to lose that by pissing off the Pakistani establishment.
 
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Except Pakistan would be preparing for something that is not likely to happen. 1. Trump is most likely, not only NOT going to win the election, he will destroy the Republican Party at the national level in the process. 2. If by some fluke, he does get elected president, he would face tough opposition for much of what he has campaigned on in foreign policy, in the Congress. Don't confuse the bigoted rantings of Trump for what Congress thinks, or our armed forces, or the American people.

In fact, Trump is today much closer of being the president of the US. There is no fluke. The wins under his belt don't lie. The support he has speaks volume. If anything, Trump has torn apart the Republican party and is getting more popular by the day. What Trump says regarding Pakistan isn't only his opinion. It is the opinion of the vast majority of Americans. Conservatives and liberals alike. The writing is on the wall. Trump speaks the truth because the Americans are in effect already arming and helping India in every way imaginable. Trump didn't disclose a secret. Trump just pointed out the obvious in his politically incorrect manner.
 
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LOL at the outdated graph... I knew that is the best you could come up with.
It's less than five years old and goes back seventy years. In context you have no grounds for complaint that I see.

Whatever man. You keep the history lesson to yourself. It is a given that the Americans armed and trained Jihadi groups against the former USSR. No amount of history lessons can chnge this fact. If Pakistan is guilty, the Americans are double guilty.
It is indeed a fantasy that Pakistanis like yourself treasure. It isn't pleasant to accept that Pakistan currently behaves morally worse than most other nations but the evidence is all around you: abused minorities, terrorism, the departure of East Pakistan, the honoring of assassins by lawyers, the orders to universities to refrain from teaching anything that threatens the "ideology" of Pakistan, and so on. You are a creature that lives in denial. Pointing this out makes you more angry than amused, yet it's necessary if your condition, and those of like-minded Pakistanis, is to be treated.

As for the F-16s. We don't want your F-16s.
Then just say no!

Ask USA, Pakistan could have gone to Russia or China for jets. USA operates many CIA cells inside Pakistan, I don't think they would like to lose that by pissing off the Pakistani establishment.
How does that make sense? If the "Pakistani establishment" knows about such cells then they are compromised and mostly useless, yes? Whereas if they don't know about such cells then there's no need to provide the F-16s.
 
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Talk about digging your own grave. Read your own link. It says it all. The Americans made the offer.

Did you even read the article? Here are the key paragraphs:

"The total cost of these F-16 is estimated to be nearly USD 700 million, said the federal notification. It added that the Government of Pakistan had requested for this sale."

"Pakistan Prime Minister's Adviser on Foreign Affairs Sartaj Aziz told Defence Writers Group this week that Pakistan had initially requested for 18 F-16s, but because of "financing problem" it is purchasing just eight."

 
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In fact, Trump is today much closer of being the president of the US. There is no fluke. The wins under his belt don't lie. The support he has speaks volume. If anything, Trump has torn apart the Republican party and is getting more popular by the day. What Trump says regarding Pakistan isn't only his opinion. It is the opinion of the vast majority of Americans. Conservatives and liberals alike. The writing is on the wall.
Not by a long shot. You are confusing his success in primaries with relatively tiny numbers of activist voters to the only election that matters, the General Election. Trump loses in virtually every poll in a one on one match-up with Clinton. Trump has the highest percentage of Americans ever polled, who say they will not vote for him under any circumstance. And when Trump says bigoted things like, "All Muslims should be banned from entering the country.", the overwhelming majority of American people opposed him.
 
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It's less than five years old and goes back seventy years. In context you have no grounds for complaint that I see.

It is indeed a fantasy that Pakistanis like yourself treasure. It isn't pleasant to accept that Pakistan currently behaves morally worse than most other nations but the evidence is all around you: abused minorities, terrorism, the departure of East Pakistan, the honoring of assassins by lawyers, the orders to universities to refrain from teaching anything that threatens the "ideology" of Pakistan, and so on. You are a creature that lives in denial. Pointing this out makes you more angry than amused, yet it's necessary if your condition, and those of like-minded Pakistanis, is to be treated.

Then just say no!

How does that make sense? If the "Pakistani establishment" knows about such cells then they are compromised and mostly useless, yes? Whereas if they don't know about such cells then there's no need to provide the F-16s.

It is an outdated graph and doesn't in any way depict the latest trend regarding US economic aid to Pakistan which basically amounts to zilch. My point stands. US economic aid to Pakistan has decreased to a bare minimum level. You know this as well so stop embarrassing yourself.

A morality lecture from an American Israeli whose very existence is based on deceit and land grabbing. He blames others for terrorism, yet his own native country is the biggest exporter of terrorism all around the world. Starting from the blatant and indiscriminate land grabbing from defenseless Palestinians. He blames Pakistan for the abuse of minorities, and likes to pretend that in Israel minorities such as black Africans don't get discriminated against. He talks about honoring of assassins by lawyers, yet in his native Israel people comfortably watch the bombing of innocent civilians on couches from hilltops. He lectures us about Pakistani universities, yet in his own native Israel people are made to believe how special and beloved they are to God as opposed to other human beings. A fairy tale promised land is what the Jews are taught. Even if the promised fairy tale land has to come at the expense of stealing it from others. He talks about Pakistani ideology, yet in his native Israel the cancer of Zionism deems everything a threat. Don't lecture about morality. Don't lift that ugly hateful finger towards me and tell me that I live in denial. In Mandela's own words: Israel is an apartheid state.

We say no to F-16s. Now, you stop shoving it down our throats.

Not by a long shot. You are confusing his success in primaries with relatively tiny numbers of activist voters to the only election that matters, the General Election. Trump loses in virtually every poll in a one on one match-up with Clinton. Trump has the highest percentage of Americans ever polled, who say they will not vote for him under any circumstance. And when Trump says bigoted things like, "All Muslims should be banned from entering the country.", the overwhelming majority of American people opposed him.

Trump has always been written off by the opposition. You are also part of the opposition. Hence, you are writing him off, but deep down you ought to know that America is today a deeply polarized and divided country. Trump is only winning because his mindset reflects that of many people. This is an undeniable fact. Don't be shocked when Trump wins the presidency. This is not a remote possibility anymore, but a very probable outcome.
 
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