'Restricted UNSC prevents small nations' voice to be heard'

[SrNair]

Lol.. Questioning a preposterous claim by some Indian diplomat on it's claimed representation of small nations in the UN is being jealous ? It is equally hilarious ,absurd and shows utter desperation on India's part to be included in the big boys club aka UNSC P5.. Now to have silly hissy fits over what non Indian posters here exposed is not only a clear sign of inferiority complex but actually very immature on your part

Again all the blabber about nuke deal ,NSG, Or TATA's business ventures has nothing to do with the overhaul of the UNSC and the hegemony of the P5.. That status quo stays.. Does'nt matter how much you guys weep over it

Now you keep repeating about alleged butt hurt and jealousy over non Indians posts here.. Again can you be specific on what we are indeed jealous of ? Can you make a list ? Cos that gives some kind of legitimacy over your claims.. Right now it just seem like you just cannot face the facts and getting all wet and bothered throwing toys out of the pram

And what is your problem
with that?A carreer diplomat who filtered in with IFS knows several tons more than @Gibbs guy that just talking in a random PDF .
What is your qualifiction to dissect that diplomat ?Those diplomats are working under the GoI and outstanding in their job.And every statements and action from them have its own implication

Hegemoney of P5?
If you cant analyse the differing economic ,military and technological power between India and UK or France then it is not my problem.
This is just a start .World ran a thousand show North Korea tested a space vehicle .But were silent except China when we tested Agni 5 .
We will carry out these innovations and economic success in coming years.Then they will come here ,like they came for NSG waiver.
If they dont do it we will openly challenge their decision .At that point a action against us would be also a disaster for entire P5 both militarily and economically.

We dont need your certificate about our position among P5.A lots of experts commented same shit about our waiver and nuke trade .Now all of those experts are in total silent.
You are not a position to decide whether India get the UNSC membership.Because both of us dont know anything about the plan in South Block .They can do samething in UNSC like they did during NSG.

 

[birju]

So you agree that claiming that India has nothing going for it other than population is an incorrect argument? To reiterate when China got the veto in 1971, it was as poor as a church mouse and country of famine where people were selling there own children to feed themselves.

Nobody could not have put it better

Expect the analytical trolls of different nationalities. They all know that Chinese members will never acknowledge the conditions in China then when it was made a UNSC member in 1971 and that it voted like an American baby from then to 1989 when it was thrown out from its lap by USA due to Tiananmenn massacre. We all know how Chinese Maoists were and are yet so desperate eager to send their families to the relative safety of the West.

 

[Sky lord]

Nobody could not have put it better

Expect the analytical trolls of different nationalities. They all know that Chinese members will never acknowledge the conditions in China then when it was made a UNSC member in 1971 and that it voted like an American baby from then to 1989 when it was thrown out from its lap by USA due to Tiananmenn massacre. We all know how Chinese Maoists were and are yet so desperate eager to send their families to the relative safety of the West.

I don't know, I once asked a Chinese member on PDF whether they actually remember what happened during the Great Leap forward when Some 30 -40 million people starved to death and he/she said they do and they hold the communist party responsible which is why the party has to deliver or else. Personally I have always found the Chinese a very reasonable people. They are a bit bombastic on PDF because here they are treated like visiting royalty and it is all about saving face.

 

[Gibbs]

So you agree that claiming that India has nothing going for it other than population is an incorrect argument? To reiterate when China got the veto in 1971, it was as poor as a church mouse and country of famine where people were selling there own children to feed themselves.
The UN was set up to prevent another world war, so far it has been successful. It is as you say a political organization. So as per you India has insufficient status? What status did China have in 1971? Or indeed what status does Russia really have today? It is an isolated country selling gas and oil at rock bottom prices to keep afloat. It is not even able at this point to protect its own legitimate interests without being sanctioned.

Can you tell me which part if the speech you found so annoying? To me the whole thing seems like normal diplomatic speak. A country works for its own best interest at several fronts at the same time. Diplomatic speeches at the UN does not mean that the indian government is not working on other fronts as well.

One last point, Germany is included in the p5+1 but not Japan, where is the fairness in that ? (Yes, I know you agree with me that the whole thing is totally biased) as far as I can see Germany is included despite two other EU nations already with veto power because they are blonde haired and blue eyed and the Japanese are not because they are black haired and slanty eyed - exactly the same reason why during WW2 German and Italian immigrants in America went about their business while Japanese were rounded up into concentration camps.

Nope mate.. I stand by what i said.. What does India has to offer over the other most potential applicants Germany, Japan and Brazil ? Except for it's claim to be having one sixth of world population ? Nothing

Again it does not matter what China was when it was included in the UNSC or decades there after, As you acknowledged they were on the side of the victors after WW II.. That debate ends there as well.. China is a veto holding world power in the UN.. Comparisons to the past or present hence is futile, When it comes to it's legitimacy in the UNSC

Again i dont want to dwell too much in to the fairness of it's members or the presumed racist connotations about the apparent inclusion of Germany over Japan.. Well i may well agree with you but that is a another debate

Anyway you and i know very well India has self interest at it's objective, And believe me i have no issues at all with that But i find it not only preposterous but absurd the claim by it's diplomat that India stand for the interest of small nations.. That is the crux of my argument and there is nothing diplomatic about that statement than just trying to plead it's way to the acceptance.. I see it as quite a humiliating effort on India's part

I wont bother replying to your compatriot @SrNair bugger seems to be worse than a toddler on a anger tantrum.. Going on a tangent on some perceived notion of anybody with a differing view to his Utopian fantasy about India being jealous of it.. Oh well you cant win em all as i learnt from my own kids

 

[Sky lord]

Nope mate.. I stand by what i said.. What does India has to offer over the other most potential applicants Germany, Japan and Brazil ? Except for it's claim to be having one sixth of world population ? Nothing

I never said that india has anything more to offer than Germany or Japan (Brazil is arguable). But it does not have less on offer and population is also one factor in many as you cannot over ride the security of 1/6 of the worlds population and it certainly has more to offer than. China of 1971.

Anyway you and i know very well India has self interest at it's objective, And believe me i have no issues at all with that But i find it not only preposterous but absurd the claim by it's diplomat that India stand for the interest of small nations.. That is the crux of my argument and there is nothing diplomatic about that statement than just trying to plead it's way to the acceptance.. I see it as quite a humiliating effort on India's part

Yes, India has self interest at heart as does every other country. I don't see why that should be interpreted as "hipocrisy" or "humiliation" or "lack of self esteem". It is just a normal country protecting its own interest the same way as Sweeden or Nigeria or Sri Lanka. Why it should be so objectionable is beyond me. What are we supposed to do? Turn over and roast the other side?

Anyway this has been beaten to death, so I am off.

One thing though that at the end of the day if the UN is not seen as representative, it will dissolve. India will not.

Anyway Gibbs you have a nice day....no hard feelings

 

[SrNair]

Nope mate.. I stand by what i said.. What does India has to offer over the other most potential applicants Germany, Japan and Brazil ? Except for it's claim to be having one sixth of world population ? Nothing

Again it does not matter what China was when it was included in the UNSC or decades there after, As you acknowledged they were on the side of the victors after WW II.. That debate ends there as well.. China is a veto holding world power in the UN.. Comparisons to the past or present hence is futile, When it comes to it's legitimacy in the UNSC

Again i dont want to dwell too much in to the fairness of it's members or the presumed racist connotations about the apparent inclusion of Germany over Japan.. Well i may well agree with you but that is a another debate

Anyway you and i know very well India has self interest at it's objective, And believe me i have no issues at all with that But i find it not only preposterous but absurd the claim by it's diplomat that India stand for the interest of small nations.. That is the crux of my argument and there is nothing diplomatic about that statement than just trying to plead it's way to the acceptance.. I see it as quite a humiliating effort on India's part

I wont bother replying to your compatriot @SrNair bugger seems to be worse than a toddler on a anger tantrum.. Going on a tangent on some perceived notion of anybody with a differing view to his Utopian fantasy about India being jealous of it.. Oh well you cant win em all as i learnt from my own kids

And I dont give a flying F about your concerns.
You tagged me and so I replied.
You are biggest bugger in here with middle aged aunt rant.
I didnt respond to your comment about Indias diplomat statement.
Perhaps you are right or perhaps you are wrong.
I respect that perspective.

But you dont have any evidence or credibility to states that India wont elected in UNSC.
Reason is simple .World will always change and those who in the P5 will take their effort to maintain the relevancy of UNSC .
India has population ,technology both space and nukes ,world largest welfareprogram and democracy.

 

[Sam.]

One last point, Germany is included in the p5+1 but not Japan, where is the fairness in that ? (Yes, I know you agree with me that the whole thing is totally biased) as far as I can see Germany is included despite two other EU nations already with veto power because they are blonde haired and blue eyed and the Japanese are not because they are black haired and slanty eyed - exactly the same reason why during WW2 German and Italian immigrants in America went about their business while Japanese were rounded up into concentration camps.

You are so true about that :|

They put Japanese on concentration camp and not the Germans and Italian.

 

[Sky lord]

You are so true about that :|

They put Japanese on concentration camp and not the Germans and Italian.

I love your tag line.

 

[Gibbs]

I never said that india has anything more to offer than Germany or Japan (Brazil is arguable). But it does not have less on offer and population is also one factor in many as you cannot over ride the security of 1/6 of the worlds population and it certainly has more to offer than. China of 1971.



Yes, India has self interest at heart as does every other country. I don't see why that should be interpreted as "hipocrisy" or "humiliation" or "lack of self esteem". It is just a normal country protecting its own interest the same way as Sweeden or Nigeria or Sri Lanka. Why it should be so objectionable is beyond me. What are we supposed to do? Turn over and roast the other side?

Anyway this has been beaten to death, so I am off.

One thing though that at the end of the day if the UN is not seen as representative, it will dissolve. India will not.

Anyway Gibbs you have a nice day....no hard feelings

No worries mate.. No hard feelings at all in fact it was refreshing to have a intense discussion on the subject in a civil manner without finger pointing and undue accusations even though we didn'nt agree on somethings and did agree on others.. Thats the beauty of forums such as PDF, Exchange of divergent views.. Cheers

And I dont give a flying F about your concerns.
You tagged me and so I replied.
You are biggest bugger in here with middle aged aunt rant.
I didnt respond to your comment about Indias diplomat statement.
Perhaps you are right or perhaps you are wrong.
I respect that perspective.

But you dont have any evidence or credibility to states that India wont elected in UNSC.
Reason is simple .World will always change and those who in the P5 will take their effort to maintain the relevancy of UNSC .
India has population ,technology both space and nukes ,world largest welfareprogram and democracy.

Calm down mate.. You might get piles if you keep fuming like this.. " Bugger" is not necessarily a insulting term from my neck of the woods.. Chill have some lassie

 

[Sam.]

I love your tag line.

fit in this forum

No worries mate.. No hard feelings at all in fact it was refreshing to have a intense discussion on the subject in a civil manner without finger pointing and undue accusations even though we didn'nt agree on somethings and did agree on others.. Thats the beauty of forums such as PDF, Exchange of divergent views.. Cheers



Calm down mate.. You might get piles if you keep fuming like this.. " Bugger" is not necessarily a insulting term from my neck of the woods.. Chill have some lassie

why you do all this stuff dude ?

If brazil/japan/Germany made this statement then ok If india do then you mock them ?

It's one thing if reform will happen or not and i think 90 % or more chance are won't happen but we gotta try for the little chance we have.

Why you start mocking if we want to achieve our national objective?

 

[Husnainshah]

While UNSC indeed does not represent the world but to say all powers in UNSC lie with America
isn't reasonable either. I mean, 2 of US' biggest rivals hold the veto power too.

 

[Gibbs]

fit in this forum


why you do all this stuff dude ?

If brazil/japan/Germany made this statement then ok If india do then you mock them ?

It's one thing if reform will happen or not and i think 90 % or more chance are won't happen but we gotta try for the little chance we have.

Why you start mocking if we want to achieve our national objective?

The issue is the Indian diplomat made a absurd claim, Neither Japan, Germany nor Brazil did.. And that displayed his desperation... Anyways i think i made my point quite clear numerous times.. G'day mate

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A nation of 1.2 billion gets represented at the UNSC.

And what's the tangible benefit to the 1.2 billion people and the rest of the world from that?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

And what's the tangible benefit to the 1.2 billion people and the rest of the world from that?

It's already almost impossible to get anything done with 5 veto powers in the UNSC.

Adding even MORE veto powers seems insane, it would make everything exponentially harder than it already is.

Nobody thinks that would make the UNSC more efficient, it's the exact opposite.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Humiliating for whom?
You??
We will make claims about anything we want .Who are you to question that?

NSG was created to isolate us .At end what happened ?

The NSG exemption was pushed through primarily because of economic reasons - the potential and promise of India to engage in hundreds of billions in nuclear trade with existing NSG states.

UNSC permanent membership with veto powers for India offers no tangible benefit to anyone, not even Indians (aside from bolstering their insecurities and ego).