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Respecting Military Service

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@jhungary @asad71 @AlpErTunga and other military professional members of PDF,

-Don't post unacceptable, disrespectful content insulting the values of Republic of Turkey, Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, Turkish people and her cultural values. As well as it's goverment organisations and it's Armed Forces. This rule does not only apply for Turkey. For those who don't, will be shown no tolerance.

SOURCE:

READ BEFORE YOU POST AT TURKISH SECTION!

That quotiation was from the "Read before you post at TUR Section" thread. I posted it here, because I wanted to show my sensitivity at this issue to all members reading this. Some people does not get what it really means to those who've wore the shoulder patch of their nation at worst conditions. From outside, people see it as an insult to posters, which in this case is you or any other professional. But they don't know that, what really pissed you guys off is not the personal insult, but the insult to your military values and comrades.

As most of the members still commit insults such as "Jewish killers, zionist army...etc.

Since now, if such issues happen again, please contact me through PM. I will personally take care of it and pursue the case to senior staff myself. Regards

Neptune
Turkish Moderator
 
When soldiers have lost their integrity, they deserve no respect.
Respect is earned, not given.

Air Force: 34 missile officers in cheating scandal - Yahoo News

New nuke scandal: 34 officers accused of cheating | Boston Herald

New nuke scandal: 34 officers accused of cheating
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Photo by:
The Associated Press
FILE - In this Nov. 7, 2013 file photo, Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh testifies on Capitol Hill in Washington. (AP Photo/Jacquelyn Martin, File)
1
Wednesday, January 15, 2014
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By:
Associated Press


WASHINGTON — In a stunning setback for a nuclear missile force already beset by missteps and leadership lapses, the Air Force disclosed on Wednesday that 34 officers entrusted with the world's deadliest weapons have been removed from launch duty for allegedly cheating — or tolerating cheating by others — on routine proficiency tests.

The cheating scandal is the latest in a series of Air Force nuclear stumbles documented in recent months by The Associated Press, including deliberate violations of safety rules, failures of inspections, breakdowns in training, and evidence that the men and women who operate the missiles from underground command posts are suffering burnout. In October the commander of the nuclear missile force was fired for engaging in embarrassing behavior, including drunkenness, while leading a U.S. delegation to a nuclear exercise in Russia.

A "profoundly disappointed" Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James, the service's top civilian official, told a hurriedly arranged Pentagon news conference that the alleged cheating at Malmstrom Air Force Base, Mont., was discovered during a previously announced probe of drug possession by 11 officers at several Air Force bases, including two who also are in the nuclear force and suspected of participating in the cheating ring.

"This is absolutely unacceptable behavior," James said of the cheating, which Gen. Mark Welsh, the Air Force chief of staff, said could be the biggest such scandal in the history of the missile force.

A spokesman for Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said the Pentagon chief, who just last week visited a nuclear missile base and praised the force for its professionalism, was "deeply troubled" to learn of the cheating allegations. The spokesman, Navy Rear Adm. John Kirby, said Hagel insisted he be kept apprised of the investigation's progress.

Sen. Mark Udall, D-Colo., urged Air Force leaders to take swift and decisive action to ensure the integrity of the nuclear mission.

"There simply is no room in our Air Force, and certainly in our nuclear enterprise, for this type of misconduct," said Udall, the chairman of the Senate Strategic Forces Subcommittee.

James said she will travel to each of the Air Force's three nuclear missile bases next week on a fact-finding mission to learn more about conditions within the missile launch force and the more senior officers who manage them. She suggested that the cheating was confined to this single case involving 34 officers, although numerous missile officers have told the AP confidentially that some feel compelled to cut corners on their monthly proficiency tests because of intense pressure to score at the highest levels to advance in the force.

"I want all of you to know that, based on everything I know today, I have great confidence in the security and the effectiveness of our ICBM force," she said. "And, very importantly, I want you to know that this was a failure of some of our airmen. It was not a failure of the nuclear mission."

James, who has been in the job only four weeks, said the entire ICBM launch officer force of about 600 is being retested this week.

Welsh said he knew of no bigger ICBM cheating scandal or launch officer decertification in the history of the missile force, which began operating in 1959. Last spring the Air Force decertified 17 launch officers at Minot Air Force Base, N.D., for a combination of poor performance and bad attitudes; at the time the Air Force said it was the largest-ever one-time sidelining of launch officers.

Welsh said one launch officer at Malmstrom was found to have sent one or more text messages to 16 other launch officers with answers to their test, and that further questioning at Malmstrom determined that 17 other launch officers "self-admitted to at least being aware of material that had been shared. We don't yet know how or if each of those officers used that material, but we do know that none of them reported the incident to their leadership."

There are about 190 ICBM launch officers stationed at Malmstrom.

Welsh said the probe continues. "People at every level will be held accountable if and where appropriate," the general said.

The Air Force's nuclear mission includes operation of 450 Minuteman 3 intercontinental ballistic missiles. The 341st Missile Wing at Malmstrom, where all 34 suspected cheaters are based, is responsible for 150 of the 450 ICBMs. The 34 are junior officers: second lieutenants, first lieutenants and captains. Of those 34, two also are implicated in the drug probe.

The Air Force operates Minuteman 3 missiles at two others bases: F.E. Warren in Wyoming and Minot in North Dakota.

The Malmstrom unit failed a nuclear safety and security inspection in August but succeeded on a re-do in October. Welsh said the alleged cheating took place in August or September; he said other details could not be released because the matter remains under investigation by the Air Force Office of Special Investigations.

The drug investigation that led to the discovery of alleged cheating was disclosed by the Pentagon last week. It said then that it involved 10 officers at six bases — five in the U.S. and one in England. On Wednesday the Air Force said the number of suspects has grown to 11. Welsh said he could not comment further on the drug probe.

James said the ICBM force "needs attention" and that while immediate corrective action is being taken, Air Force leaders are planning to address some longer-term initiatives.
 
When soldiers do not respect the bodies of their enemy, they don't respect their own codes of conducts.

US investigates photos of Marines 'burning corpses' in Iraq | News.com.au

US investigates photos of Marines 'burning corpses' in Iraq

  • 2 DAYS AGO JANUARY 16, 2014 5:23AM
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Investigation ... A Pentagon spokesman said troops in the pictures possibly violated military rules that prohibit the mishandling of remains or inappropriate photos on the battlefield. Picture: TMZ.com Source: Supplied

THE US Marine Corps has launched an investigation into photos released that purport to show troops burning corpses in Fallujah, Iraq, a spokesman said.

The probe was focused initially on verifying if the images were genuine, after the gossip website TMZ, known for its coverage of celebrities, posted eight grisly photos online.

"We are conducting an investigation into it right now,'' Captain Tyler Balzer told AFP.

"At this point it's just to really determine the veracity of the photos and what the circumstances depicted in them are, and, if possible, whether we can identify the service members involved,'' he said.

The TMZ site said it had 41 photos and were told the images were taken in Fallujah, the scene of heavy fighting by Marines nearly ten years ago and where Al-Qaeda-linked militants recently took back control.

In the photos, an American Marine appears to be pouring fuel or other flammable liquid on two corpses. Then other pictures show the remains on fire.

In other pictures, a US Marine smiles for the camera as he kneels next to a corpse, and another soldier appears to search the pockets of the clothes on a corpse.

TMZ wrote that it handed over the photos to the US Defence Department.

A Pentagon spokesman said the photos do not appear to show a war crime, but the troops in the pictures possibly violated military rules that prohibit the mishandling of remains or inappropriate photos on the battlefield.

"Based on our initial discussions with our legal team, there's been no law of war violations here,'' Colonel Steven Warren said.

In some cases, torching corpses can be permitted under military rules for "health and hygiene,'' Colonel Warren said.

If military authorities conclude there was wrongdoing, the individuals involved could be prosecuted under the military code even if the incident occurred several years ago, Colonel Warren said.

If the troops have since left the military, they would have to be ordered back to duty to face charges, which is extremely rare, he added.

Military commanders have called for tightening up discipline after a series of incidents in the war in Afghanistan.

A team of US Marines faced courts-martial and administrative punishment after a video emerged in 2012 of them urinating on the corpses of Afghan insurgents in Helmand province.
 
It's just sad generalisations which are wrong everywhere. There are surely good, humane, and moral US soldiers that are doing their best with what they're given. Sadly, for people who have not seen the life and death situations it's easier to take the moral argument.
How about

Other soldiers kill for their country...American soldiers kill for their fun ....
And

Thanks to the Apache helicopter video leaked by Julian Assange ....we know how inhuman trigger happy US soldiers are .

they kill for mere fun ....they discern no difference between killing animals and killing innocent men , women and kids ...


So one video, and all American soldier are trigger happy?

Unless you can explain how that work, I stand by my comment

And I am not even talk about operational detail to people who never served

@WebMaster @Slav Defence @Aeronaut @jaibi
 
As far as trigger happy soldiers are concerned ....that remark was specifically related to Apache helicopter attack video ...where it was amply demonstrated how soldiers were killing civilians for fun ...sort of game !!!
.
Nonsense, i've seen that video and could never understand the criticisms of the Apache crew's actions- they are engaging what appeared to be pretty legitimate targets. How were they to know this wasn't an RPG team but journalists?

And let's not make out anyone has moral authority here "war is hell" as the saying goes. Bad things happen this is just the nature of it. The US Mil is one of the most professional and lethal forces on the face of the planet, they have simply been engaged in almost continuous conflict for more than a decade now so there is a lot of these isolated incidents but that shouldn't reflect on the US Mil as a whole- that would be silly. What these young men are being asked to do is not something trivial and they literally have the power of life and death in their hands, sometimes, as human beings, they will get it wrong.
 
Nonsense, i've seen that video and could never understand the criticisms of the Apache crew's actions- they are engaging what appeared to be pretty legitimate targets. How were they to know this wasn't an RPG team but journalists?

And let's not make out anyone has moral authority here "war is hell" as the saying goes. Bad things happen this is just the nature of it. The US Mil is one of the most professional and lethal forces on the face of the planet, they have simply been engaged in almost continuous conflict for more than a decade now so there is a lot of these isolated incidents but that shouldn't reflect on the US Mil as a whole- that would be silly. What these young men are being asked to do is not something trivial and they literally have the power of life and death in their hands, sometimes, as human beings, they will get it wrong.

Lot has been said and talked and discussed about Apache attack Helicopter video ...
But let me ask you only one question ....if the crew was indeed engaged in pretty legitimate targets ....then why did US army and Pentagon suppressed the said footage ??? Why despite Reuters management having invoked Freedom of Information act were refused the access to this video if it was all 'clean' as you paint ???


No military or armed force should hide behind the generic oft repeated much abused " War is Hell " excuse to commit crimes against humanity ....

The collective conscience of mankind has moral authority to judge the acts of each country and each army engaged in war and party to such heinous crimes ....

what do you mean by Professionalism of US army ???
I agree with you it is the most lethal force on earth and I will add to that it is also most brutal force on earth ...

Killing innocent civilians with least or no provocation ...on mere suspicion ...or blanket order of ' clearing ' area ...

planting arms on innocent civilians killed , torturing those who have been caught alive ...

If that is what constitutes professionalism of US army then I am ashamed of such professionalism ...

Do make point to watch videos of US soldiers confessing on camera how brutally they killed several civilians ....

More than million Iraqi civilians have been killed in Iraq war so far ....

and large portion of them in non-combat situation ....

If picture is better than thousand words ....then pictures of Abu Gharib prison and treatment meted to inmates by US armed forces personnel speaks volumes about barbaric and gruesome " Professionalism " of US army ....


By which rule of exceptionalism you are going to justify that ???

Least US authorities could have done is to acknowledge things like that ...but as one of the very recent article posted by one of the member above ...shows that US armed forces and authorities are in perpetual denial ....

while US continues to preach values of humanity to whole world ....even as it continues to pile up pictures of Tamil genocide in Sri Lanka ....it will be good if US can spare some time to introspect ....

If you trash what has happened and what has been happening in Iraq as ' isolated incidents ' ....then it is matter of great humiliation for lakhs of those who were victim of such 'isolated incidents '

If millions are killed in Iraq ...and large portion of them in non -combat situation ...I do not understand by which scale you measure them up as isolated incidents ....

US army will have to own all those barbaric and in humane killings of innocent civilians ....

I am aghast at your suggestion to write off all those ' bad ' things ....as just matter of ' young people ' going wrong ' ....


I have the highest regards for unrequited sacrifices an average soldier makes in defending its nation ....however under no circumstances I will ever ever justify and support such blatant crimes against humanity ...

I do not care whether I say that on defense forum filled with ex as well as actively serving military professionals !!!


All such instances of gross and obvious human rights violations are condemned by all civilized nations and professional armies .

No reason why it should be exception on PDF .....


I respect and regard armed forces for their courage , valor and sacrifices and at the same time I have no qualms about condemning very those who tarnish the great traditions of military by such inhuman acts....

with same attitude I condemn the @zhungary 's act of killing 11 year old Iraqi boy for just flagging their convoy ...

and with same spirit I condemn the silence of US army and its failure to address and at times its complicity in gross as well as barbaric , human rights violations in Iraq wars ...and several other wars they have been waging since last 400 years since its inception !!!
 
@jhungary @asad71 @AlpErTunga and other military professional members of PDF,



SOURCE:

READ BEFORE YOU POST AT TURKISH SECTION!

That quotiation was from the "Read before you post at TUR Section" thread. I posted it here, because I wanted to show my sensitivity at this issue to all members reading this. Some people does not get what it really means to those who've wore the shoulder patch of their nation at worst conditions. From outside, people see it as an insult to posters, which in this case is you or any other professional. But they don't know that, what really pissed you guys off is not the personal insult, but the insult to your military values and comrades.

As most of the members still commit insults such as "Jewish killers, zionist army...etc.

Since now, if such issues happen again, please contact me through PM. I will personally take care of it and pursue the case to senior staff myself. Regards

Neptune
Turkish Moderator
What abt Recep Erdogan.:D
 
What abt Recep Erdogan.:D

has he or any current politician stayed at a post in the heights of Eastern Turkey having their a$s frozen at minus twenty celcius, overwatching the Iraqi border?
 
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