REPORTSNo Ms Romila Thapar, even to a 15 year old student like me, you don’t make sense

[pothead]

Iranic is not the same as Iranian. Iranian is a nationality, Iranic is an ethnic/racial group.

***slowly backs away *****

 

[Advaitagrata]

Don't worry, Muslims are growing day by day through simple dawah alone. We don't need a sword anymore to obtain power.

It's not an inferiority complex if my ancestors were Iranic lol. Anyway, I take joy in both my Indo-Aryan and Iranic ancestry, the latter just gets more prominence because that's the one that gave me Islam.

On the contrary, being mixed only gives us a more diverse heritage to look back on.

Iranic is not the same as Iranian. Iranian is a nationality, Iranic is an ethnic/racial group.

Like I said, its none of my business what floats your boat.

Just don't pretend to be an expert on my civilization.

 

[Hamza913]

Like I said, its none of my business what floats your boat.

Just don't pretend to be an expert on my civilization.

I'm not pretending to be an expert on your civilisation, I'm just stating basic facts about one aspect of it, since this aspect concerns my people too.

 

[Advaitagrata]

I'm not pretending to be an expert on your civilisation, I'm just stating basic facts about one aspect of it, since this aspect concerns my people too.

Since you are looking for the TRUTH,

Here is the truth.

One is a variation of Sanskrit that went to the west of India. Another is the variation of sanskrit that went to the east of India.

 

[Hamza913]

Since you are looking for the TRUTH,

Here is the truth.

One is a variation of Sanskrit that went to the west of India. Another is the variation of sanskrit that went to the east of India.

Sigh

We will never agree on this, might as well end the conversation on agree to disagree.

 

[Advaitagrata]

Sigh

We will never agree on this, might as well end the conversation on agree to disagree.

Similarity between Sanskrit and Cambodian

THIS is the evolution of the Indian script into languages in the rest of the world.

A honest look at them will establish the primacy of India in global civilization, both in the East and in the West of India.

 

[Samlee]

Read through the articles first before making a joke of self.

The article is spot on in exposing the duplicity of the so called historians.

Yeah I Read It That Expose Is Rate A BS Just Rehashing The Trash Sanghi Textbooks

 

[Advaitagrata]

The "Brahmi script" is a corruption of the world "Brahmin script".

The script used by Hindu brahmins to write sanskrit texts.

 

[Samlee]

Irony of this all is..

Aryan invasion, which has been disproven by DNA analysis. Which "might" have happened some 20000 years or more ago is an issue
BUT
Islamic invasion and the subsequent brutality is not an issue Or the current Vatican invasion is not an issue.

One simple question mate....If Hinduism came from outside, what happened to it in places where it supposedly came from?

.

Yeah Sure Everyone From Harvard To Stanford To Even Indians Are Marxists Commies

Bigotry makes men act funny. That is just the way it is.

"Bigotry" Look Whose Talking

1. Dude the very Vedas are written in Sanskrit. And it describes INDIAN RIVERS and MOUNTAINS and SEAS.
2. The Ramayana that give a detailed geography of India is written in Sanskrit.
3. The Mahabharat that give a detailed History and Geography of India is written in Sanskrit.

THIS will give you a list of Indian texts ALL OF WHICH IS WRITTEN IN SANSKRIT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historic_Indian_texts

And Sanskrit Came From

https://scroll.in/article/737715/fa...irst-place-sanskrit-was-recorded-it-was-syria

 

[Advaitagrata]

And Sanskrit Came From

https://scroll.in/article/737715/fa...irst-place-sanskrit-was-recorded-it-was-syria

The Syria itself comes from the Sanskrit world "surya"

But as per its record, that scroll was written in 1,500 BC.

But as per the Planetarium software of NASA that map's and traces star maps , the Ramayana itself is dated to 5114 BC, i.e. at least 7000 Years back.

Now Ramayana itself is written in the Gayatri Meter mentioned in the Vedas.

Which means the Vedas were written much earlier.

Now guess again where Sanskrit originated.

Details for your reading,

Date of Birth of Lord Ram
Aadikavi Valmiki in 1/18/8-10 of Ramayan has given details that Shri Ram was born on 9th tithi of Chaitra month during day time when the position of different planets vis-à-vis zodiac constellations and nakshatras (visible stars) was as under:

1. Sun in Aries 2. Saturn in Libra 3. Jupiter in Cancer 4. Venus in Pisces 5. Mars in Capricorn 6. Lunar month of Chaitra 7. Ninth day after Amavasya 8. Lagna as Cancer 9. Moon near the star Punar vasu (Pollux) in Gemini Constellation.

Moon & Jupiter were shining together in Cancer.

This data was entered into the ‘Planetarium Gold’ software, the results indicated that this was exactly the location of planets/stars vis-à-vis zodiac constellations on the 10th of January noon time in the year 5114 BC if viewed from latitude/longitude of Ayodhya (25°N 81°E). Thus Shri Ram was born on 10th January in 5114 BC.

By making use of software to convert solar calendar into lunar calendar, it was found that this date also happened to be the 9th day of Shukla Paksha in ‘Chaitra’ month and the time was around 12 to 1 noontime. This is exactly the time and date when Ramnavmi is celebrated all over India till date (Fig.1).



Fig. 1: Showing Planetary position on 10th January, 5114 BC, the date on which Lord Ram was born

Date of Exile of Shri Ram
In Valmiki Ramayan it is mentioned in Ayodhya Kaand (2/4/18) that Dashratha wanted to make Shri Ram the king because Sun, Mars and Rahu had surrounded his nakshatra and normally under such planetary positions the king dies or becomes a victim of conspiracies. Zodiac sign of king Dashratha was Pisces and his nakshatra was Rewati. This planetary position was prevailing on the 5th of January 5089 BC and it was on this day that Shri Ram had to leave Ayodhya for 14 years. Thus he was 25 years old at that time (5114-5089) and there are several shlokas in Valmiki Ramayan which indicate that Shri Ram was 25 years old when he left Ayodhya for his 14 years of exile.

Solar Eclipse during War with Khar-Dushan
Ramayan refers to the solar eclipse at the time of war with Khar-Dushan in later half of 13th year of Shri Ram’s stay in the forests. Valmiki has also mentioned that it was Amavasya day and planet Mars was in the middle. When this data was entered, the sky view generated by computer software indicated that there was a solar eclipse on 7th October, 5077 BC (Amavasya day) which could be seen from Panchvati (20° N; 73° E) (Fig. 2). On that date planetary configuration was the same as has been described by Valmiki i.e. Mars was in the middle; on one side were Mercury, Venus and Jupiter and on the other side were Sun, Moon and Saturn.


Fig. 2: Showing Planetary position on 7th October, 5077 BC (Amavasya), the day of Solar Eclipse, when Lord Ram fought the battle with Khar.

Other Eclipses mentioned in Ramayan
In Kishkindha kaand there is a reference to solar eclipse (4/15/3) on the day Bali was killed. Software shows a solar eclipse on 3rd April 5076 BC which was the only solar eclipse during the entire year.

In Sunder Kaand there is a reference to lunar eclipse when Hanuman spots Sita in Ashok Vatika (5/19/14, 5/29/7, 5/35/87). Sky view reveals lunar eclipse starting from 4.15 pm on 12th September 5076 BC from Colombo (7°N; 80°E)

All these sequentially fully tally with the description in Ramayan.

Other Important Dates
Only six of the twelve constellations remain above the horizon at the same time. Valmiki Ramayan contains graphic and poetic details of eight constellations during Hanuman’s return journey from Sri Lanka to Sunaabh Hill in the middle of the sea which apparently took about four and a half hours from 6:30 AM to 11 AM. All these details of planets and nakshtras with reference to eight constellations described in Sarga 57 (1, 2, 3) of chapter five tally exactly with the sky view generated by the software for the morning of 14th September 5076 BC from Lanka.
On the basis of planetary configurations described in various other chapters of Valmiki Ramayan, the date on which Ravana was killed works out to be 4th December 5076 BC and Shri Ram completed 14 years of exile on 2nd January, 5075 BC and that day was also Navami of Shukla Paksha in Chaitra month. Thus Shri Ram had come back to Ayodhya when he was 39 years old (5114-5075).

Sequential Details of Places visited by Shri Ram during 14 years of exile: Geographic Evidences
Many researchers, particularly a colleague Dr. Ram Autar, have researched on places visited by Shri Ram during 14 years of exile. They sequentially moved to the places stated as visited by Shri Ram in the Valmiki Ramayan. Starting from Ayodhya, they went right up to Rameshwaram. They found more than 189 (+60 identified later on) places, most of which still have the memorials connected to the events relating to the life of Shri Ram and Sita and also match the description given in Ramayan (see Map).

The locals believe that Shri Ram had actually visited these places. These details have been compiled in his book ‘In the Footsteps of Shri Ram’. These details can be broadly divided into five phases.

First Phase-Gangetic Belt
They went to Tamsa Nadi Tal (Mandah), 20 km from Ayodhya, thereafter crossed Gomti river (Point no. 2 to 7 of map 1) and reached on the banks of Saryu river. After crossing the boundary of Kosal Desh, they entered Shringaverapura (Srigraur) which was kingdom of Nishadraj Guh and is famous for Kewat taking them across Ganga in his boat (20 km from Allahabad).

After crossing Yamuna near Sangam they reached Chitrakoot on Uttar Pradesh (UP) and Madhya Pradesh (MP) borders – memorials here include Valmiki Ashram, Mandavya Ashram, Bharat Koop etc which still exist. After Bharat Milap they left Chitrakoot and went to Atri Ashram located in Satana in MP.

Second Phase in Dandak Van
Along with Laxman and Sita, Shri Ram extensively travelled through this land of rivulets, water bodies and dense forests in and around MP and Chhattisgarh. They roamed around in Dandak Aranya area and visited Sharbhang and Sutikshan Muni ashrams in Satna. Thereafter, they visited several Rishi ashrams in Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh area, along Narmada and Mahanadi rivers for 10 years, and then came back to Sutikshan ashram. Several memorials in Panna, Raipur, Bastar and Jagdalpur still exist which include Mandavya ashram, Shringi ashram, Ram Laxman Mandir and Koti Maheshwar etc.

After crossing many rivers, lakes, hills and forests they went to Agastya ashram in Nasik. As per Valmiki, weapons made in Agnishala were given to Shri Ram by Agastya Muni in this ashram.

Third Phase along Godavari
Shri Ram, Laxman and Sita travelled along Godavari, From Agastya ashram they went to stay in Panchavati – a place with 5 Vatavriksha located on the banks of Godavari in Nasik. This place is famous for Surpanakha episode and war with Khar and Dushan. There are memorials at the place where Mareech was stated as killed; these include Mrigvyadheshwar and Baneshwar. In fact, Nasik area is full of memorials, e.g. Sita Sarovar, Ram Kund and Triambakeshwar and Janasthan etc. After this incident, Sita was abducted by Ravana, who also killed Jatayu relating to which memorial ‘Sar vatiratha’ in Taked Village, 56 km from Nasik, is still preserved.


Places visited by Lord Ram during Exile marked as red spots
Fourth Phase along Tungbhadra and Kaveri Shri Ram and Laxman extensively travelled through these areas in search of Sita. After meeting Jatayu and Kabandh they moved towards south to reach Rishyamook Parbat. On the way they visited Shabari ashram in Pampasarovar area which is now known as Sureban in Belgaon and is still famous for Ber trees. After crossing forests of Sandalwood, many gardens and water bodies, they went towards Rishyamook. Here they met Hanuman and Sugreev, and were shown Sita’s ornaments. Shri Ram killed Bali in this area. Rishyamook and Kishkindha are located in Hampi, Bellary District of Karnataka.
Fifth Phase
Shri Ram with his sena marched towards the sea. After crossing Malay Parbat, Chandan forests, many rivers and ponds they went along Kaveri River. After crossing Trishirapalli, Thanjavur and Ramanathapuram, they reached Rameshwaram. Almost all the details of travel narrated in all these five phases in Valmiki Ramayan tally with the existing geographic locations and memorials preserved.
Places in Sri Lanka The location and physical features of areas, covered under Ravana falls, Ravana caves and Ashok Vatika in and around Nuwara Elya Hills in Sri Lanka, will persuade anyone to believe that Valmiki, the author of Ramayan, was fully familiar with all these places. Vibhishan palace is also located almost at the same place as is described in Ramayan.Most of these places have similar geographic features, flora, fauna and memorials as have been described in Ramayan. If Valmiki had not visited/known about these places, how could he give such precise details in Ramayan which was composed as biography of Shri Ram when he was coronated as the King of Ayodhya in 5075 BC (1/4/1, 2). Originally it was passed on through shruti smriti tradition for hundreds of years but was available in text form by around 1000 BC. References of Ram’s story are available in:• Kautilya’s Arthasastra of 4th century BC.
• Buddhist literature in the form of ‘Dasharatha Jaraka’ ascribable to 3rd century BC.
• Terracotta figures of Ram ascribable to 2nd century BC excavated from Kaushambi.
• Stone panels excavated at Nagarjunakonda in Andhra Pradesh of 3rd century AD showing Ram-Bharat milap at Chitrakoot.
• Terracotta panels of 4th century AD excavated from Nachara Khera in Haryana.
• ‘Janaki Haran’, a poetic composition of Kumaradasa of Sri Lanka who lived in 7th century AD.There are hundreds of other evidences found not only from India but from countries like Sri Lanka, Tibet, Thailand, Malayasia, Combodia and Indonesia. In Nepal oldest manuscript of Valmiki Ramayan written in 1041 AD in Newari script is still preserved, probably the oldest preserved manuscript of the world.

 

[Shah Khalid]

If Hinduism migrated from somewhere else, we should be seeing list of below things in some other place than India.

1. Old temples to Lord Shiva & Vishnu.
2. Hindu architecture similar to how you find all over India dating back to 3000 years
3. Literature mentioning a Single Hindu god in that place it migrated from
4. Language similarity

Irony of this all is..

Aryan invasion, which has been disproven by DNA analysis. Which "might" have happened some 20000 years or more ago is an issue
BUT
Islamic invasion and the subsequent brutality is not an issue Or the current Vatican invasion is not an issue.

One simple question mate....If Hinduism came from outside, what happened to it in places where it supposedly came from?




Read through the articles first before making a joke of self.

The article is spot on in exposing the duplicity of the so called historians.

Aryan invasion disproven????did you even read the links of samlee.The DNA that has conclusively proven that your aryan ancestors came from outside and the origins of sanskrit show what a joke you're making out of yourself.Here are the answers to your questions

http://www.oocities.org/bharatvarsha1947/Feb_2003/godswestasia.htm

This is just one of many links that show what a stupid question you asked.

 

[Sliver]

IVC had their own language, and it is not the same as Sanskrit, that's for sure.

Horses existed in Hindustan prior to the Vedic era, but chariots didn't.

i dint want to come between the debate between you both. But thought that I could add some of my knowledge here.

1) IVC script has not been decoded, thats a fact - which means we will NOT know if this language is similar to Sanskrit or not.
2) Chariots are a technology that can be transferred between cultures without the culture itself being transferred so hvaing chariots in later part of IVC does not mean IVC got overrun by migrants.

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

IVC had their own language, and it is not the same as Sanskrit, that's for sure.

Horses existed in Hindustan prior to the Vedic era, but chariots didn't.

You can post all the maps you want, the fact is genetics and archaeology shows that the Indo-Aryan migrations occurred. Using them to support your argument shows how ignorant you are.

What language shift? Are you serious?



1. That doesn't prove anything, Sanskrit came from a proto Indo-Iranian language which split into two branches, Avestan and Sanskrit.

2. Same as above.

3. Same as above.

Look, it's clear you don't understand the proof for the Indo-Aryan migrations. I would suggest you do further research, listen to what reputable scholars say, and then get back to me.

But the Vedas says opposite of what you are saying, that is, There was migration out of India to Iran.

Not from Iran to India.

This Historic Event is registered in Vedas. Aryan Tribes migrating towards West to Iran.

As per Vedas, Infect Iranians are our FALLEN BROTHERS.

Ever heard of "King Sudas and Battle of Ten Kings"????

Here is something for you.

The Battle of Ten Kings – Dasharajnya – ? The Third Epic of India

Rigveda Book 7, Hymn 18

This is Ralph Griffith’s translation of the Rigveda and describes the great war on river Parushni (present day Ravi) and the battle on River Yamuna. This is the Battle of Ten Kings. The seventh book of Rigveda describes a historical event that took place in an empire – on the south-eastern front on the banks of Yamuna and on the western front on the banks of River Ravi.

Sudas, a descendant of the great emperor Bharata, whose name carries on today as the Hindu name of India, was a Pur King probably around 2700 BCE. He expands his kingdom to reach the Oxus river in west crossing the Hindukush mountains and the river Yamuna in the east, conquering the surrounding kingdoms. He and his Royal priests, Vasishta and Vishwamitra tell him that there was nothing worth conquering in the south. This spared the Pandyan Kingdoms south of the Vindhyas. He alienates all the surrounding Kingdoms by doing this.

There is a rift between the two great sages, Vasishta and Vishwamitra. Vishwamitra walks out of Sudas’s court to join the ancestral enemy, Kavi Cayamana. He is the grandson of the Emperor Abhyavartin Cayamana of the Anu dynasty and a contemporary of Sudas. He grows up in obscurity and brought in to lead the Brghus in the city of Mundigak of Sistan. He wants to regain the glory of his grandfather and the empire of Ariana. The Kingdoms of Yadu, Druhyu, Turvasa, Balanas, Pakthas, Alinas, Panis, Matsyas and other smaller tribes join hands under the leadership of Kavi Cayamana. A large army of over sixty thousand, with fast chariots, cavalry and elephants march on Sudas.

Sudas gets the message of the confederacy of ten kings marching on his empire s he is on the way back from the battle on the eastern front on the river Yamuna. His depleted and tired army face the challenge under the guidance of sage Vasishta. It becomes a battle of wits, magic and sorcery between the two great sages – Vasishta and Vishwamitra. A shallow river allows the army of Sudas to cross. A flash flood (?by the virtue of God Indra) blows away large portion of the confederate army. Kavi Cayamana is killed on the river battling for what he believed in. Sudas returns victorious to the capital, Ilaspada (centre of the world), as the man fighting for the right side.

There are several moral issues as well as ethical issues in the story. Sudas leads people of Bharata, who firmly beleive in the Aryan values of valour, forgiveness and righteousness. Cayamana, although believed in his right to lead his country to glory, uses un-aryan comrades, who are mostly aryans, who have deviated from the path and those tribes who did not believe in the aryan values. These kingdoms later on go on to establish themselves as BMAC complex – Bactria Margiana Archeological Complex spread mainly around Afghanistan and Iran.

It is a battle of right over wrong. If the battle had gone the other way, the other two epics of India – Ramayana and Mahabharata – might not have occurred. Or if they did, it would have been vastly different. It was a turning point in the pre-history of India and should rightly be considered the third epic. It is the only Vedic epic, as the other two took place in the post-vedic period. If the battle had gone the other way, we would most likely be following the Persian religion of Zoroastrianism!!

Read the details of the epic story – intricacies, planning, controversies, valour, deceit, sorcery and challenge in the upcoming book – Harappa3: The Battle of Ten Kings. Being launched in India in October and in the UK in November.

The epic story is so powerful and paradigm shifting in nature that it should rightly be considered as the third epic of India



Rigveda Book 7, Hymn 18.

1. ALL is with thee, O Indra, all the treasures which erst our fathers won who sang thy praises.
With thee are milch-kine good to milk, and horses: best winner thou of riches for the pious.

2 For like a King among his wives thou dwellest: with glories, as a Sage, surround and help us.
Make us, thy servants, strong for wealth, and honour our songs wirth kine and steeds and decoration.

3 Here these our holy hymns with joy and gladness in pious emulation have approached thee.
Hitherward come thy path that leads to riches: may we find shelter in thy favour, Indra.

4 Vasiṣṭha hath poured forth his prayers, desiring to milk thee like a cow in goodly pasture.
All these my people call thee Lord of cattle: may Indra. come unto the prayer we offer.

5 What though the floods spread widely, Indra made them shallow and easy for Sudās to traverse.
He, worthy of our praises, caused the Simyu, foe of our hymn, to curse the rivers’ fury.

6 Eager for spoil was Turvaśa Purodas, fain to win wealth, like fishes urged by hunger.
The Bhṛgus and the Druhyus quickly listened: friend rescued friend mid the two distant peoples.

7 Together came the Pakthas, the Bhalanas, the Alinas, the Sivas, the Visanins.
Yet to the Trtsus came the Ārya’s Comrade, through love of spoil and heroes’ war, to lead them.

8 Fools, in their folly fain to waste her waters, they parted inexhaustible Paruṣṇī.
Lord of the Earth, he with his might repressed them: still lay the herd and the affrighted herdsman.

9 As to their goal they sped to their destruetion: they sought Paruṣṇī; e’en the swift returned not.
Indra abandoned, to Sudās the manly, the swiftly flying foes, unmanly babblers.

10 They went like kine unherded from the pasture, each clinging to a friend as chance directed.
They who drive spotted steeds, sent down by Pṛśni, gave ear, the Warriors and the harnessed horses.

11 The King who scattered one-and-twenty people of both Vaikarna tribes through lust of glory-
As the skilled priest clips grass within the chamber, so hath the Hero Indra, wrought their downfall.

12 Thou, thunder-armed, o’erwhelmedst in the waters famed ancient Kavasa and then the Druhyu.
Others here claiming friendship to their friendship, devoted unto thee, in thee were joyful.

13 Indra at once with conquering might demolished all their strong places and their seven castles.
The goods of Anu’s son he gave to Trtsu. May we in sacrifice conquer scorned Pūru.

14 The Anavas and Druhyus, seeking booty, have slept, the sixty hundred, yea, six thousand,
And six-and-sixty heroes. For the pious were all these mighty exploits done by Indra.

15 These Trtsus under Indra’s careful guidance came speeding like loosed waters rushing downward.
The foemen, measuring exceeding closely, abandoned to Sudās all their provisions.

16 The hero’s side who drank the dressed oblation, Indra’s denier, far o’er earth he scattered.
Indra brought down the fierce destroyer’s fury. He gave them various roads, the path’s Controller.

17 E’en with the weak he wrought this matchless exploit: e’en with a goat he did to death a lion.
He pared the pillar’s angles with a needle. Thus to Sudās Indra gave all provisions.

18 To thee have all thine enemies submitted: e’en the fierce Bheda hast thou made thy subject.
Cast down thy sharpened thunderbolt, O Indra, on him who harms the men who sing thy praises.

19 Yamuna and the Trtsus aided Indra. There he stripped Bheda bare of all his treasures.
The Ajas and the Sigrus and the Yaksus brought in to him as tribute heads of horses.

20 Not to be scorned, but like Dawns past and recent, O Indra, are thy favours and thy riches.
Devaka, Mānyamana’s son, thou slewest, and smotest Śambara from the lofty mountain.

21 They who, from home, have gladdened thee, thy servants Parasara, Vasiṣṭha, Satayatu,
Will not forget thy friendship, liberal Giver. So shall the days dawn prosperous for the princes.

22 Priest-like, with praise, I move around the altar, earning Paijavana’s reward, O Agni,
Two hundred cows from Devavan’s descendant, two chariots from Sudās with mares to draw them.

23 Gift of Paijavana, four horses bear me in foremost place, trained steeds with pearl to deck them.
Sudās’s brown steeds, firmly-stepping, carry me and my son for progeny and glory.

24 Him whose fame spreads between wide earth and heaven, who, as dispenser, gives each chief his portion,
Seven flowing Rivers glorify like Indra. He slew Yudhyamadhi in close encounter.

25 Attend on him O ye heroic Maruts as on Sudās’s father Divodāsa.
Further Paijavana’s desire with favour. Guard faithfully his lasting firm dominion.

The original Sanskrit version of the Mandala 7, 18th Hymn:

तवे ह यत पितरश्चिन न इन्द्र विश्वा वामा जरितारो असन्वन |
तवे गावः सुदुघास्त्वे हयश्वास्त्वं वसु देवयतेवनिष्ठः ||
राजेव हि जनिभिः कषेष्येवाव दयुभिरभि विदुष कविः सन |
पिशा गिरो मघवन गोभिरश्वैस्त्वायतः शिशीहिराये अस्मान ||
इमा उ तवा पस्प्र्धानासो अत्र मन्द्रा गिरो देवयन्तीरुप सथुः |
अर्वाची ते पथ्या राय एतु सयाम ते सुमताविन्द्र शर्मन ||
धेनुं न तवा सूयवसे दुदुक्षन्नुप बरह्माणि सस्र्जे वसिष्ठः |
तवामिन मे गोपतिं विश्व आहा न इन्द्रः सुमतिं गन्त्वछ ||
अर्णांसि चित पप्रथाना सुदास इन्द्रो गाधान्यक्र्णोत सुपारा |
शर्धन्तं शिम्युमुचथस्य नव्यः शापं सिन्धूनामक्र्णोदशस्तीः ||
पुरोळा इत तुर्वशो यक्षुरासीद राये मत्स्यासो निशिता अपीव |
शरुष्टिं चक्रुर्भ्र्गवो दरुह्यवश्च सखा सखायमतरद विषूचोः ||
आ पक्थासो भलानसो भनन्तालिनासो विषाणिनः शिवासः |
आ यो.अनयत सधमा आर्यस्य गव्या तर्त्सुभ्यो अजगन युधा नर्न ||
दुराध्यो अदितिं सरेवयन्तो.अचेतसो वि जग्र्भ्रे परुष्णीम |
मह्नाविव्यक पर्थिवीं पत्यमानः पशुष कविरशयच्चायमानः ||
ईयुरर्थं न नयर्थं परुष्णीमाशुश्चनेदभिपित्वं जगाम |
सुदास इन्द्रः सुतुकानमित्रानरन्धयन मानुषे वध्रिवाचः ||
ईयुर्गावो न यवसादगोपा यथाक्र्तमभि मित्रं चितासः |
पर्श्निगावः पर्श्निनिप्रेषितासः शरुष्टिं चक्रुर्नियुतो रन्तयश्च ||
एकं च यो विंशतिं च शरवस्या वैकर्णयोर्जनान राजा नयस्तः |
दस्मो न सद्मन नि शिशाति बर्हिः शूरः सर्गमक्र्णोदिन्द्र एषाम ||
अध शरुतं कवषं वर्द्धमप्स्वनु दरुह्युं नि वर्णग वज्रबाहुः |
वर्णाना अत्र सख्याय सख्यं तवायन्तो ये अमदन्ननु तवा ||
वि सद्यो विश्वा दरंहितान्येषामिन्द्रः पुरः सहसा सप्त दर्दः |
वयानवस्य तर्त्सवे गयं भाग जेष्म पूरुं विदथे मर्ध्रवाचम ||
नि गव्यवो.अनवो दरुह्यवश्च षष्टिः शता सुषुपुः षट सहस्रा |
षष्टिर्वीरासो अधि षड दुवोयु विश्वेदिन्द्रस्य वीर्या कर्तानि ||
इन्द्रेणैते तर्त्सवो वेविषाणा आपो न सर्ष्टा अधवन्त नीचीः |
दुर्मित्रासः परकलविन मिमाना जहुर्विश्वानि भोजना सुदासे ||
अर्धं वीरस्य शर्तपामनिन्द्रं परा शर्धन्तं नुनुदे अभि कषाम |
इन्द्रो मन्युं मन्युम्यो मिमाय भेजे पथो वर्तनिम्पत्यमानः ||
आध्रेण चित तद वेकं चकार सिंह्यं चित पेत्वेना जघान |
अव सरक्तीर्वेश्याव्र्श्चदिन्द्रः परायछद विश्वा भोजना सुदासे ||
शश्वन्तो हि शत्रवो रारधुष टे भेदस्य चिच्छर्धतो विन्द रन्धिम |
मर्तानेन सतुवतो यः कर्णोति तिग्मं तस्मिन नि जहि वज्रमिन्द्र ||
आवदिन्द्रं यमुना तर्त्सवश्च परात्र भेदं सर्वतातामुषायत |
अजासश्च शिग्रवो यक्षवश्च बलिं शीर्षाणि जभ्रुरश्व्यानि ||
न त इन्द्र सुमतयो न रायः संचक्षे पूर्वा उषसो न नूत्नाः |
देवकं चिन मान्यमानं जघन्थाव तमना बर्हतः शम्बरं भेत ||
पर ये गर्हादममदुस्त्वाया पराशरः शतयातुर्वसिष्ठः |
न ते भोजस्य सख्यं मर्षन्ताधा सूरिभ्यः सुदिना वयुछान ||
दवे नप्तुर्देववतः शते गोर्द्वा रथा वधूमन्ता सुदासः |
अर्हन्नग्ने पैजवनस्य दानं होतेव सद्म पर्येमि रेभन ||
चत्वारो मा पैजवनस्य दानाः समद्दिष्टयः कर्शनिनो निरेके |
रज्रासो मा पर्थिविष्ठाः सुदासस्तोकं तोकाय शरवसे वहन्ति ||
यस्य शरवो रोदसी अन्तरुर्वी शीर्ष्णे-शीर्ष्णे विबभाजा विभक्ता |
सप्तेदिन्द्रं न सरवतो गर्णन्ति नि युध्यामधिमशिशादभीके ||
इमं नरो मरुतः सश्चतानु दिवोदासं न पितरं सुदासः |
अविष्टना पैजवनस्य केतं दूणाशं कषत्रमजरं दुवोयु ||

 

[Advaitagrata]

i dint want to come between the debate between you both. But thought that I could add some of my knowledge here.

1) IVC script has not been decoded, thats a fact - which means we will NOT know if this language is similar to Sanskrit or not.
2) Chariots are a technology that can be transferred between cultures without the culture itself being transferred so hvaing chariots in later part of IVC does not mean IVC got overrun by migrants.

The language of the IVC will continue in some form in that area. Its not as if the entire people were wiped out like the dinosaurs. Pretty much all languages in that area are derived from Sanskrit.

SO its pretty safe to assume that the language spoken was sanskrit or one of its earliest mutation.

Also modern star mapping software can easily date the Vedas too. This was not a tool available to the british who claimed fantastic theories based on their prejudice and political convenience.

For Example, there are 53 references in Rigveda as prayers offered to Aswinis at dawn. The description clearly points to the observation of the pair of stars in the Aries constellation (referred to as Aashvin or Asvini) just before sunrise as a ritual to mark the year beginning. Using Planetarium software, we find that the Winter Solstice occurred on 19 December, 7000 BC at 0735 hrs as shown in Figure below.


Skymap during Ri Vedic Period.

This is the earliest reference to Vedic calendar with year beginning at Winter Solstice, found in Rigveda (5-77-1/2; 1-46-14; 7-69-3/2). Heliacal rising of Ashwini Nakshatra (Aries) can be seen to occur on 5th January, 7000 BC, marking the year beginning .

Pre Dawn Sky during Rig Vedic Times.

A thousand years later, Winter Solstice no longer occurred near Aries (Asvini) due to precession. As a result, Ashwinis were no longer rising heliacally as before. They were still below the horizon at sunrise around Winter Solstice time. The Winter Solstice had moved to Revati by 6000 BC. Thus the precession of Equinoxes and Solistices was being observed by Rigvedic Scholars.

The Sky of 19th December, 6000 BC at sunrise on the Winter Solstice day shows that Ashvini gave way to bright star Chitra (α Vir) on opposite side (Western horizon). A full Moon in Chitra Nakshatra provided a new time marker in the sky and heralded the lunar month naming system-Chaitra, Vaisakha etc. (Rigveda: 5-74-1,2 and Tait Samh. 7-4-8). See Figure below.




The Sky of 19th December, 6000 BC at sunrise on the Winter Solstice day shows that Ashvini gave way to bright star Chitra (α Vir) on opposite side (Western horizon). A full Moon in Chitra Nakshatra provided a new time marker in the sky and heralded the lunar month naming system-Chaitra, Vaisakha etc. (Rigveda: 5-74-1,2 and Tait Samh. 7-4-8).


As you can see, modern technology can easily help us date the Vedas far more accurately than in the past.


The new dates for the Vedas clearly show that they were around the time of the IVC civilization. So its pretty safe to assume that they spoke Sanskrit.

ALso the IVC was found near the Indus river which is also clearly mentioned in the Vedas. There is really no scope for confusion or misinterpretation.

 

[Sliver]

SO its pretty safe to assume that the language spoken was sanskrit or one of its earliest mutation.

I do not like to make assumptions. you are free to make any.

the following two assumptions:
1) the IVC language belongs to the Indo-European language class
2) The IVC languages has nothing to do with India-European class

is based on what you want the final outcome to be.

As of now, the IVC language has NOT been decoded and so we cannot make any conclusion about this.

However, I do agree with the route you have taken (stellar constellation correlation) but that is not conclusive or definitive - its one of the ways to add credibility to antiquity of the Vedic ideas, but where were the Vedic ideas formed in their infancy is probably never going to be known (since they were passed down orally for many generations before being written down, so their earliest forms may have mutated based on the migration path)