Report On Indian MMRCA IN CHINESE..

[Akasa]

You don’t even know the RCS figures for J-10, you are just making stories up. As for radar, what radar does the J-10B use again? Oh that is right you haven’t got a clue…wait for it …wait for it…’reliable sources claimed’ right?. And stop throwing vague acronyms such as WVR around which stands for--- within visual range. What does that even supposed to mean? Better HMC, quicker role rate?

It’s clear that you are just throwing around vague terms to look smart.

Yes, I don't know the RCS figures of the J-10B, but I do know that it is upgraded with radar absorbent material, DSI, 50% weight composites, IRST, and an AESA radar, and is considerably smaller than the Rafale. The Rafale is rumored to have 30% composites by weight and the J-10B 50%. The Rafale's intake ramps might also increase RCS despite the use of serpentine intakes.

As far as turn rates and maneuverability is concerned, the J-10B uses a more powerful engine and a reduced weight airframe. However PAF pilots (according to Eagle Hannan) who tested the J-10B said that the J-10B was able to do the Pugachev maneuver, but recovers much faster than their other equivalents. This helps post stall maneuverability.

The JF-17 may have a smaller RCS but is nowhere near versatile. It is one of the furthest things from versatile. Short range, small payload, mediocre performance and poor strike capability. The MKI on the other hand is a very long range aircraft able to carry heavy payloads and still maintain super maneuverability. Not to mention the MKI has a weapons systems operator that increases battlefield survivability as well insures greater accuracy on strike missions. On endurance missions the pilots can also relax by alternating flight responsibilities and the SU-30’s can refuel in mid air.

So explain to everyone how the JF-17 is more versatile again?

The JF-17 is easily integrated with a huge variety of weaponry, everything from ALCM to SDB to AShM. Its electronics also use open source, which makes upgrading very easy. The range of the JF-17 is approximately 3000 km which is more than enough for any country that operates it. Explain "poor strike performance". I don't see how having a greater range and payload exactly makes the Su-30MKI more multirole than it already is. The JF-17 itself is easily upgraded and is compatible with Chinese, Russian, and American weaponry, as the JF-17 Block II shows.

---------- Post added at 05:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:28 PM ----------

I Hope You Are Intelligent ENOUGH to Know That BOTH Jf17 and J10 Mount Weapon's EXTERNALLY

I hope you are intelligent enough to also know that the Su-30MKI does as well, but this time without the luxury of composites or radar absorbent material.

 

[ptldM3]

LOL at your obvious jealousy at China. J-10B has AESA, and we've just deployed it. Meanwhile, Russia hasn't deployed an AESA radar on a production fighter aircraft yet.

Me jealous? It was a Chinese member pounding his chest claiming that Chinese have ‘more powerful’ avionics compaired to the Rafale. I’m not even French nor am I Indian, so I fail to see how you can accuse me of being jealous. To me it looks like a few naïve and ill informed members got their rears ends served on a platter after pounding their chests and now I’m jealous because I made their stories crumble?

As for the J-10B have AESA, maybe it does and maybe it does not, I don’t take insiders serious. And for the sake of my reputation I will not claim one system to be more ‘powerful’ than the other like some Chinese do especially when I have zero information regarding that system.

Nobody knows RCS figures for J-10. PLA doesn't publish these things.

Great than maybe some of the Chinese fan boys can stop boasting about the J-10B being ‘stealthier’ than any other aircraft based on their ill informed observations.

Canards are the weaknesses of the flankers. That's why Russia did not go for canards on the Su-35. They saw the problems on the MKI (good move by the way). China was lucky because we didn't go for the canard flanker option -- we wanted something safe. Note that we only have canards on the J-15 because it's naval and needs more lift. (Of course there is nothing wrong with canards itself, like the J-10, it's just that the flanker airframe plus canards is not ideal.)

So then that means that canards are a weakness in the J-20 and J-10. There are no canards in the SU-35 because better flight software and engines/TVC is available.

MKI doesn't have real TVC either, but limited 2D TVC at best. Low T/W is a major problem for the MKI, it's even lower than 90's era MKK.

Not real TVC? There is no criteria for TVC being a single axis or full axis. And the SU-30mki’s T/W is what 1.14? I would hardly call that a problem.

A huge aircraft like the MKI has a bigger radar yes, but it's also a bigger target iself on its adversary's radar!

Likewise, a small aircraft has limitation to radar and with that performance. Traditionally small radars lack range, and target resolution.

Look at JF-17's cockpit to see the difference in avionics generation between JF-17 and MKI. I'll tell you what's really a joke -- indian attempts to integrate French and Israeli systems into a Russian aircraft

So a picture of the JF-17’s cockpit in dim lighting is supposed to impress me? Sorry but I know better than that. The question to ask is, do the JF-17’s avionics get unified into one systems as apposed to multiple?

Now you're just being stubborn. Sweetman is a respected military expert. He has much better credentials than you -- you are some random Russian guy. He gave an expert opinion saying J-20 is a real deal stealth fighter like F-22 while PAKFA made some obvious major compromises to stealth. That is credible. Your envious, stubborn nay-saying is not.

Get off your high horse he is a magazine editor that had too much of the stealth juice. He has not demonstrated that he knows a thing about ‘stealth’. All he has thrown out is vague observations that half of the ill informed members on this forums have reiterated. Phrases like sharp chin or flat bottom does not demonstrate that he knows what he is talking about. I doubt that he would know what a traveling wave or creeping wave is.

He is nothing more than a poor mans Tom Clancy.

LOL..... R-77 adders are nothing compared to China's SD-10A!

The SD-10 uses Russian electronics, so what were you saying?

JF-17 has an extremely advanced KLJ-7 X-band mechanically scanned radar too. A physically large target like MKI would be easily tracked.

Sure it is, how many targets can this advanced radar engage at once, is it 2? And no a physically large target like the MKI would not be easily tracked because for one, the radar would need long range which it lacks and two, it would need high enough resolution. Lastly it would have to demonstrate that it is capable of not being jamed.

Amazon.com: Bill Sweetman: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle

Thanks for proving my point that Sweetman is nothing more than magazine editor.

 

[Alchemy]

Well the anchor here is saying that India is busy in upgrading its fleet and is spending billion of dollars in buying sophisticated toys whereas we chinese still are busy in reverse engineering.Only CCP know how better these reverse engineered toys are.Chinese Economy is doing good but it is doing good on papers only.Anchor is pissed off with Chinese governance.He further said if we will have to fight again then we will have to use same old technique of hit & run as we did in the past.He said it is better to pick up a fight with armless monks or cut the cables of viets trawlers and show our power to the world.

Oops wonder whether the Anchor is still walking free or even alive ???

 

[Alchemy]

J10 is already deployed, wtf are you talking about.

J10 wasn't even officially announced until it was deployed, so there was no delay to speak of.

Are indians so used to stuff like LCA and F35 delays that they automatically expect Chinese planes are also delayed?

As for MMRCA, it's going to take years before India has enough numbers, PLA will already have J20 by then. Even if they don't there's more than enough J10 and J11 to go around.

Dont worry , India will start getting PAK-FA by then to counter J-20 . but for now what do you have in your arsenal that matches A2G capabilities of Rafale ???

 

[ptldM3]

Yes, I don't know the RCS figures of the J-10B, but I do know that it is upgraded with radar absorbent material, DSI, 50% weight composites, IRST, and an AESA radar, and is considerably smaller than the Rafale. The Rafale is rumored to have 30% composites by weight and the J-10B 50%. The Rafale's intake ramps might also increase RCS despite the use of serpentine intakes.

As far as turn rates and maneuverability is concerned, the J-10B uses a more powerful engine and a reduced weight airframe. However PAF pilots (according to Eagle Hannan) who tested the J-10B said that the J-10B was able to do the Pugachev maneuver, but recovers much faster than their other equivalents. This helps post stall maneuverability.

I think it would have been easier to say you were right, I was wrong and spare everyone the RAM, and composites talk. As for the J-10 doing the Cobra, maybe it can, but I will have to see it to believe it. Pakistani's have claimed all sorts of ridiculous things over the years like SU-30's flying over major Pakistani cities and than being escorted. Give me a break.

The JF-17 is easily integrated with a huge variety of weaponry, everything from ALCM to SDB to AShM. Its electronics also use open source, which makes upgrading very easy. The range of the JF-17 is approximately 3000 km which is more than enough for any country that operates it. Explain "poor strike performance". I don't see how having a greater range and payload exactly makes the Su-30MKI more multirole than it already is. The JF-17 itself is easily upgraded and is compatible with Chinese, Russian, and American weaponry, as the JF-17 Block II shows.

Stop and go back, I want you to answer the question. You claimed that the JF-17 is more versatile than the MKI, in what way? The variety of weapons the JF-17 carries is not huge. The MKI is also open architecture that allows for easy avionics integration. And yes long range and long payload means a lot for a good strike aircraft, an aircraft with short legs will be limited. There is also a reason that the Growler and Strike Eagle have a weapons system operator. In short the MKI has and does everything that the JF-17 has and does but better, and the MKI does what the JF-17 can not do. So how is it more versatile?

 

[crimemaster_gogo]

I think it would have been easier to say you were right, I was wrong and spare everyone the RAM, and composites talk. As for the J-10 doing the Cobra, maybe it can, but I will have to see it to believe it. Pakistani's have claimed all sorts of ridiculous things over the years like SU-30's flying over major Pakistani cities and than being escorted. Give me a break.
















Stop and go back, I want you to answer the question. You claimed that the JF-17 is more versatile than the MKI, in what way? The variety of weapons the JF-17 carries is not huge. The MKI is also open architecture that allows for easy avionics integration. And yes long range and long payload means a lot for a good strike aircraft, an aircraft with short legs will be limited. There is also a reason that the Growler and Strike Eagle have a weapons system operator. In short the MKI has and does everything that the JF-17 has and does but better, and the MKI does what the JF-17 can not do. So how is it more versatile?

i hope these chinese boys annoy you more and more with theird crappy planes and bullsh!t, al i care is your informative replies sir sorry to sound like an 4sshole.

.hope sancho/gambit provides some inputs on the same lines.
.
.Hey boys MKI's are known to be mini AWAKS. what are jf17 and j10 knows as ? mini Kwaks ?

 

[IndianTiger]

My previous post was based on indians response on this thread, so how about we stay a lil realistic......... You are not getting F-22....... So don't try to make incoherent points based on preposterous assumptions.

---------- Post added at 08:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 PM ----------


And we don't even need Fighter jets to take care of india........ you know what i mean, don't you?
Lastly, it's not about Pakistan so stay on topic.

Ya we know you don't need planes for india, i dont think you can afford them. But what you want to say. Do you think its better to surrender than fighting with India. If thats the reason you don't want plane then I would say you got wisdom..

 

[Alchemy]

Some Indians talking about the supposed superiority of Rafale like they already have it in their hands, truly hilarious. Then you got the usual idiots that scream copy and paste, without bothering to check facts.

You chinese trolls said the same few yrs ago when India was going to acquire and enhance best of the class Su-MKI , we have it in our hands and even integrating with brahmos too , now you say the same about Rafale ,

Again my question remains , interms of superiority what do you have that can match Rafale A2G ???

 

[shree835]

Is that what your indian brainwashing tells you? China's Russian import Su-30 dates from the 1990's. We received them many years before india received the MKIs, so they are not as advanced. But our J-11B is far superior to MKI, and we already have several regiments of J-11B! With these alone, China can dominate the skies above New Delhi and level Red Fort.

Then what you are waiting for ...If you are your Communist Govt. Has Balls...Then do what you said...

 

[Edevelop]

Rafale hasn't been inducted into the Indian air force yet! So why are Indians so happy right now?

By the time Rafales induct into Indian air force, China and Pakistan will be flying J-10B, JF-17 Blk 1+ 2 + 3, F-16 blk 52+ + MLUs, J-11, J-15, and possibly J-20!!!

 

[Edevelop]

Then what you are waiting for ...If you are your Communist Govt. Has Balls...Then do what you said...

What is so negative about Communism?
Even Russia your Ally is a Communist....

 

[Ajaxpaul]

Rafale hasn't been inducted into the Indian air force yet! So why are Indians so happy right now?

By the time Rafales induct into Indian air force, China and Pakistan will be flying J-10B, JF-17 Blk 1+ 2 + 3, F-16 blk 52+ + MLUs, J-11, J-15, and possibly J-20!!!

Want to know what russia and India will be flying? I dont think so cos its offtopic. So pay attention to the thread before posting, maybe chinese and pakistanis will fly holding hands...but its offtopic..get the point??

 

[Edevelop]

Want to know what russia and India will be flying? I dont think so cos its offtopic. So pay attention to the thread before posting, maybe chinese and pakistanis will fly holding hands...but its offtopic..get the point??

Russia and India will never hold hands... I think they understand where your country is headed.... BTW, if you are thinking in terms of market, China is greater than India. China is a communist and India is not. I think they understand who to be with and who to be against...
China and Pakistan have a common enemy. That we all know is India. Do you really think that Russia will come out of their bubble to save your a$$?
Why are you saying its off topic. I've mentioned that Pak and China have the answer to your Rafale... Oh I get it!, I can see what Indians started off saying on the 1st page! Great translation

 

[April.lyrics]

Rafale hasn't been inducted into the Indian air force yet! So why are Indians so happy right now?

By the time Rafales induct into Indian air force, China and Pakistan will be flying J-10B, JF-17 Blk 1+ 2 + 3, F-16 blk 52+ + MLUs, J-11, J-15, and possibly J-20!!!

i think this can be explained by Consumer Psychology.A positive mood would be given after shopping.

IAF:nice,we r getting new toys and dont need to worry that we would have a military vacuum period.

and,to be objective,MMRCA should be a correct choice for india.India do need advanced fighters to face with the challenges from J-10A,J-10B,F-16,JF17,J11 series,J16.only relying on Su-30Mki is unrealistic.or,they wont buy rafale.

now the ball has been kicked back to Pakistan and china.

 

[shree835]

What is so negative about Communism?
Even Russia your Ally is a Communist....

You are Ill informed Pakistani Chicha... Please check Tiananmen Massacre ...That chinese are proud off.