What's new

Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?

Unless the contract itself that UAE signed specifies the restrictions on onward sale of said equipment. In fact, you are simply wrong. Consider that you admitted the following:



If China has acquired "property rights" to the Russian airframes/engines, why does it need Russian consent to sell them on to Pakistan?
Respect each other.
The J16 is an improved version of the SU30. It uses the aerodynamic shape of the SU30, but is entirely manufactured based on Chinese technology. If China insists on exporting, Russia cannot stop it. But due to the friendly relations between the two countries, China only uses it for itself. And Russia knows they can't make a plane as good as J16, so they will acquiesce to What China is doing. China's purchase of SU35 has shown its respect to Russia, if Russia can make a good new SU30, China is willing to pay for it. For example, even with a variety of Chinese helicopters, China is still buying a lot of Russian helicopters. In addition, during the just-concluded Sino-Russian joint exercise, China showed the Russian army its equipment without reservation and provided detailed information for the Russian army to learn from. This is also a manifestation of the deep cooperation between the two sides.
 
.
Respect each other.
The J16 is an improved version of the SU30. It uses the aerodynamic shape of the SU30, but is entirely manufactured based on Chinese technology. If China insists on exporting, Russia cannot stop it. But due to the friendly relations between the two countries, China only uses it for itself. And Russia knows they can't make a plane as good as J16, so they will acquiesce to What China is doing. China's purchase of SU35 has shown its respect to Russia, if Russia can make a good new SU30, China is willing to pay for it. For example, even with a variety of Chinese helicopters, China is still buying a lot of Russian helicopters. In addition, during the just-concluded Sino-Russian joint exercise, China showed the Russian army its equipment without reservation and provided detailed information for the Russian army to learn from. This is also a manifestation of the deep cooperation between the two sides.

In the recent military exercise between China and Russia, China let J20 participate in the exercise. This means that Russia has obtained all the radar data of the J20.
Moreover, the exercise adopts the mode of joint command and joint control, which shows that the two countries are seeking mutual compatibility of command systems.
 
.
UAE paid in excess of 3 Billion US Dollars just of the research
It was a time when Stealth was considered absolute. US wasnt interested in further developing the F-16 because at that moment the consensus was they will be able to replace F-16 1:1 with F-35, so it was a project on request for UAE. I remember it was thought to be F-16XL variant but later turned out wrong when it was revealed. Lockheed might have made a commercial investment case for future orders that didnt happen or they conveniently pushed Block-50/52s for sale so werent obligated to share any profits. Didnt help that the Block-60 was overpriced because it had to earn back development expenses.

When those Block-60s rolled off they were the most advanced 4.5+ gen aircraft in the world with an absolute beast of a EW system, CFTs, IR tracking and a custom made AESA radar. Only the F-22 and F-2 had a AESA radar and Russians were on PESA radars. UAE paid for or as American's say shared the development cost. Had not there been a sharing agreement UAE might have bought something else.

Later turns out F-16 will continue to get orders and UAE itself will have to upgrade to Block-61. I still think they are some of the most powerful non stealth jets out there. PAF ACM has said on record if they had the finances would have liked getting Block-60s but had to buy the Block-52 instead.

PAF will keep its F-16s flying for as long as possible I doubt they will be replaced, if upgrades don't come they might not be the front line jets but they will continue to serve with perhaps reduced hours like they did while we were under sanctions. If not by US then we will go for the in development Turkish F-16 upg program.

IMO J-10s if they come will end up equipping a Mirage user sqd, if they do make way to a F-16 user sqd those jets wont go to retirement, they will be transferred to some other unit.

If it were up to me would have liked to wait for Azm/J-31/35 but our neighbors are hot for war, would have looked into possibility of 3-5 yr lease of single sqd of PL-15 equipped J-10s from China till J-31/35 was ready. They did same for initial F-7 till they were able to meet our requirements so its doable. We had a mere dozen F-104s in 1965 and they were a psychological nightmare for InAF. JF-17 Blk-3s would have entered in considerable numbers by then.
 
Last edited:
.
Respect each other.
The J16 is an improved version of the SU30. It uses the aerodynamic shape of the SU30, but is entirely manufactured based on Chinese technology. If China insists on exporting, Russia cannot stop it. But due to the friendly relations between the two countries, China only uses it for itself. And Russia knows they can't make a plane as good as J16, so they will acquiesce to What China is doing. China's purchase of SU35 has shown its respect to Russia, if Russia can make a good new SU30, China is willing to pay for it. For example, even with a variety of Chinese helicopters, China is still buying a lot of Russian helicopters. In addition, during the just-concluded Sino-Russian joint exercise, China showed the Russian army its equipment without reservation and provided detailed information for the Russian army to learn from. This is also a manifestation of the deep cooperation between the two sides.

Your rant in praise of the J16 has nothing to do with the patently false claims made previously that "In fact, I think Pakistan can buy F16F from the UAE. Although it is also a kind F16, its property rights belong to the UAE. In 1998, the UAE paid US $3 billion to acquire the exclusive property right of F16F. According to the contract rules, the USA has no right to prevent F16F exports" and therefore deserves as much respect as the original comment and poster - zero.
 
.
J16 is a member of the Sukhoi family. According to the agreement between China and Russia, the sale of any Chinese made Sukhoi family member must be approved by Russia.

In 1998, when the UAE purchased the intellectual property rights of F16F, the contract stipulated that the UAE had the right to control the sale of F16F. According to the contract, the United States should have no right to prevent the UAE from selling F16F to Pakistan.
New copies or used ones with UAE?
 
. .
In the recent military exercise between China and Russia, China let J20 participate in the exercise. This means that Russia has obtained all the radar data of the J20.
Moreover, the exercise adopts the mode of joint command and joint control, which shows that the two countries are seeking mutual compatibility of command systems.
Incorrect. stealth aircrafts operate with luneburg lens during such exercises.
 
.
J16 is a member of the Sukhoi family. According to the agreement between China and Russia, the sale of any Chinese made Sukhoi family member must be approved by Russia.

In 1998, when the UAE purchased the intellectual property rights of F16F, the contract stipulated that the UAE had the right to control the sale of F16F. According to the contract, the United States should have no right to prevent the UAE from selling F16F to Pakistan.


the US has every right. the UAE can fund certain components all they want, but us origin components are still present and thus it can be blocked. The US literally blocked a sale to the UAE once
Incorrect. stealth aircrafts operate with luneburg lens during such exercises.


(luneberg lenses have nothing to do with ‘radar data’, but anyway, AESA’s have peacetime modes which reduce their power output, limit their software magic and basically make it harder to get any realistic or useful gauge of their capabilities)
 
. . .
F-16's aren't going anywhere you people need to get that out of your minds ... these J-10C's will be for stop gap and replace older mirages and f-7's PAF will be working on Thunders in numbers for blk 2 and blk 3 in any-case we are still long ways to project AZM simple as that.
Exactly...


F-16s Could Still be Flying Into the 2070s
May 23, 2021 | By John A. Tirpak
Based on Lockheed Martin’s backlog of F-16 orders, planned upgrades, and the recent revelation that the Air Force plans to depend on the fighter into the late 2030s, the F-16’s sunset years now could come in the 2070s, or later.
Lockheed Martin’s backlog of 128 F-16s—all for foreign military sales—won’t all be delivered until 2026, and the company anticipates more orders may be coming. With a potential service life of 40 years or more, those jets could be flying into the late 2060s or later. The type first entered service in the 1970s.
“There are 25 nations operating F-16s today,” said Col. Brian Pearson, Air Force Life Cycle Management Center lead for F-16 FMS, in a May 17 press release. Lockheed’s Greenville, S.C., F-16 manufacturing and upgrade facility, which will start turning out new F-16s in 2022, “helps us meet the global demand” for F-16 aircraft, he said. Lockheed moved its F-16 work from Fort Worth, Texas, in 2019 to make room there for expanded F-35 production.
Since the new line opened, AFLCMC’s security assistance and cooperation directorate “has seen an uptick of our partner nations requesting detailed information and requests for U.S. government sales,” said Col. Anthony Walker, senior materiel leader in the international division.
The 128 jets are for Bahrain, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Taiwan, and another country the company declined to name, although Croatia and the Philippines have been mentioned as customers. These aircraft will be in the Block 70/72 configuration, which includes new radar, displays, conformal fuel tanks, and other improvements over the Block 50/52 version, the most recent flown by USAF. Lockheed is building F-16s at a rate of about four per month at Greenville.
India is also considering buying an advanced F-16 version Lockheed has dubbed the “F-21,” which Lockheed touts as having a 12,000-hour service life; roughly 50 percent more than the ones the USAF flies. At normal utilization, 12,000 hours is about 32 years of service. India would produce those jets indigenously. India is looking to buy 114 fighters, and Lockheed is partnered with Tata to build the jets if it wins the competition.
Gregory M. Ulmer, Lockheed’s vice president for aeronautics, told reporters in February the company sees a potential for 300 additional F-16 sales not yet on the books, some of which will be to “repeat” customers.
The increased foreign interest may be related to the USAF’s hints over the last two years that it will continue to fly the F-16 beyond previous plans, thus reassuring customers that the parts and support pipeline for a large number of aircraft will persist.
Those hints turned more concrete in recent days. Talking points drawn up for USAF Chief of Staff Gen. Charles Q. Brown Jr. about the service’s future fighter force plans, obtained by Air Force Magazine, indicate the Air Force expects that “600+ late-block F-16s will provide affordable capacity for the next 15+ years,” in both competitive and permissive combat environments. These aircraft will in fact be the USAF’s “capacity force,” the documents say, and will serve as a “rheostat,” meaning their total number can be adjusted up or down depending on the success of the F-35 program and a separate F-16 replacement now known as the Multi-Role-X.
The Air Force considers “competitive” to mean airspace that is reasonably well defended by aircraft and surface-to-air systems. “Highly competitive” and “denied” airspace would only be penetrable by fifth-gen and sixth-gen aircraft with extremely low observable qualities.
Although the fiscal year 2022 budget request, to be released May 28, will reveal some details of the Air Force’s new force structure plans, Brown said at the recent McAleese and Associates defense conference that the meat of the plan will be spelled out in the fiscal ’23 budget.
In the near-term, the USAF plans the divestiture of all the F-16 “pre-blocks” of aircraft, meaning all those that remain in its inventory of the Block 15-25-30 versions.
Lockheed received an indefinite-delivery, indefinite-quantity contract in January worth up to $64.3 billion for production of new F-16s for FMS customers, as well as upgrades of 405 jets in foreign hands to the F-16V configuration, which is similar to the F-21 model proposed to India. These modifications will include “new radar and other upgrades to make them similar to the aircraft that will come off the production line,” AFLCMC’s release said.
The large omnibus contract creates a baseline F-16 configuration for all future production, with the Air Force acting as the agent for FMS customers. Each country will sign a separate contract for unique or custom equipment they want on their particular jets. An Air Force official said the arrangement “simplifies and accelerates” the FMS process for countries wanting to buy the F-16, “so we can get it into their hands faster than has been the case in recent years.” The approach is needed because of the increased expected demand for the airplane, he said. It also reduces the cost of the jet by allowing vendors to make larger, more economic quantities of parts and structural components. The work will also integrate the Joint Mission Planning System/Mission Planning Environment software update.
The contract specifically mentioned work for Bahrain, Bulgaria, Chile, Columbia, Croatia, Egypt, Greece, India, Indonesia, Jordan, Morocco, Korea, Oman, Pakistan, the Philippines, Poland, Romania, Singapore, Slovenia, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, and the United Arab Emirates.
Japan flies an F-16 variant, called the F-2, but it performs all work on that type.
More than 4,550 F-16s have been delivered to the U.S. and allied countries since the 1970s. The late Michele A. Evans, Ulmer’s predecessor as Lockheed VP for aeronautics, said in September 2020, the company sees a possibility “of getting up to 5,000” F-16s built. She also said the company views the F-16 as an entrée to its F-35, for countries that are not yet ready to adopt the fifth-generation fighter, but may wish to later.
Brig. Gen. Dale R. White, the USAF’s program executive officer for fighters and advanced aircraft, called the F-16 an “enduring, highly capable compact fighter that will have a large role in many partner nations’ security for years to come.”
 
. .
just watch this video


This guest "expert" Justin from UK is having a very tough time digesting just how advanced China has become, when he was talking about the J-10 sounded just like Indians do when talking about the JF-17 lol
 
.
New copies or used ones with UAE?
To have the intellectual property and to have the capacity to built some are two very different things.
For exemple, if UAE has the intellectual rights about the dedicated F16bk60 powerplant, do they have the industrial capacity to built last gen cristal blades? NO. So is Pakistan and China.
same with active T/R modules for radar etc.... etc....
 
. .

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom