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Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?

The J-10CE would takeover the role of the F-16s we never got, but intended on buying. The PAF planned on a fleet of at least 100 F-16s (potentially 150), but due to our issues with the U.S., they never got to that point. However, the PAF still has a gap resulting from not having enough F-16-class fighters. The J-10CEs would basically plug that gap. Meanwhile, I expect additional JF-17s (especially Block-3) would replace the Mirages in the various air-to-surface roles.

This.

The most ideal situation would be for Pakistan to obtain F-16V and later variant AIM-120C (D variant only reserved to closest US allies), but that boat has long since sailed post QUAD and Afghanistan withdrawal. Pakistan will need a high end 4.5th generation fighter going forward and although introducing the J-10C will complicate maintenance, it is the best and most realistic option.
 
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Fact is that the chinese engines have a low life. Despite the huge amounts of money spent.
And Pakistan is far far away from chinese level.

During this time two tiny european countries are able to study and produce world class engines.... sorry. :azn:

It's only the Macron whish to developp the european defense that opened the SCAF to germany and spain.
For SCAF all the technological assets are already in France.

GIVE US PROOF please. Without proof I say you are a liar.
I nees tl give you proofs on algerian skulls lying in paris musuem

French cant and arent pursuing a fifth gen fighter
While china is parsuing two
France has airspace station planning to land on moon...oh wait no they dont
Ofcourse we are far away ..british made sure of that
 
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AIM120D : such a 150km range is (maybe) potent against non agile target, like tanker. To reach such range the missile is in a near ballistic trajectory and has nearly no energy at the end, so can only reach a straight forward target.
Reliable? Previous AMRAAM don't have a very high scoring ratio. And as far as I know, no kill has been made by a D variant.
PL15 : as all the chinese products, they are not war proven. So a potential very bad surprise or a very good one in case of a future real use...

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AIM-120D-3 have produced longest air-to-air kill shot in history in a recent live-fire test; target was a maneuverable UAV.

Exact flight range of this air-to-air kill shot is not disclosed but well-informed sources have pointed out that the record of AIM-54 Phoenix is broken.



This missile was launched from an F-15C, and outcome of this live-fire test is an eye-opener in regards to 'possibilities' with increasingly sophisticated guidance systems in use. F-15 variants have very impressive kinematics and equipped with some of the most powerful sensor systems in any jet fighter. Network-centric technologies of the American armed forces are also much better than what they used to be in 1990s.

From where you got the impression that AMRAAM don't have a very high scoring ratio? Known data suggest otherwise.

AMRAAM delivers in combat situations. A notable incident in Syria for reference:


In this up close WVR situation, AIM-9X failed to work due to unknown factors but AMRAAM worked.

METEOR is impressive on paper but any 'combat data' to consider? Rafale F3R does not support 2-way data link for METEOR either? Well...

I do not get your sense of pride and critic in these matters. French are way down the totem pole in matters of aviation.

Sure not.
Why? because F16 bk 60 is fully operational for years when F35 is not.

F16 bk 60 is the last evoluted bird well studied by LM (with bk 70)
F-35A and F-35B are operational since 2018.





F-35C is operationalized in this year.


F-35 is incredibly complex and capable jet fighter in its class. Rafale F3R is impressive among 4th generation types but it is not comparable to F-35 on many counts. Not even close.
 
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AIM-120D-3 have produced longest air-to-air kill shot in history in a recent live-fire test; target was a maneuverable UAV.

Exact flight range of this air-to-air kill shot is not disclosed but well-informed sources have pointed out that the record of AIM-54 Phoenix is broken.

This missile was launched from an F-15C, and outcome of this live-fire test is an eye-opener in regards to 'possibilities' with increasingly sophisticated guidance systems in use. F-15 variants have very impressive kinematics and equipped with some of the most powerful sensor systems in any jet fighter. Network-centric technologies of the American armed forces are also much better than what they used to be in 1990s.
No real range given. "well informed source.... it may be my nurse? "
No evidence the UAV was manoeuvring.
In a semi ballistic mode (ie with no energy loss due to manoeuver) a air to air missile fired at high altitude and high speed (typically by a F15) can fly several times more longer than the NEZ.
yeah yeah whatever false flagged Indian, RAFALE can go to Mars and fight with Alien and WIN LOL
I just say fact. Every well informed source (LOL) knows that the F35 IOC is a marketing only one. And the road is long to FOC.
 
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F-35C is operationalized in this year.
F35C is and remains IOC.
The squadron may be FOC, but the bird is IOC. It's two different things.
F-35 is incredibly complex and capable jet fighter in its class. Rafale F3R is impressive among 4th generation types but it is not comparable to F-35 on many counts. Not even close.
This is one explanation for F35 IOC and Rafale FOC for years.
 
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No real range given. "well informed source.... it may be my nurse? "
No evidence the UAV was manoeuvring.
In a semi ballistic mode (ie with no energy loss due to manoeuver) a air to air missile fired at high altitude and high speed (typically by a F15) can fly several times more longer than the NEZ.
53rd Wing of USAF is your nurse? OK.

The longest shot record of AIM-54 Phoenix is reportedly broken; range is indirectly disclosed. Simply check the previous record and you will know.

AIM-120D is openly stated to have 50% greater range than AIM-120C-7 which is known to be effective in the (90 - 110) KM bracket. Therefore.

Specifics of this live-fire test are not disclosed due to obvious reasons. Target was fairly complex but its behavior at the time of kill is unknown.

You are changing goalposts now. You were shortselling AIM-120D in your previous response and I addressed your view with latest update. Take your time to come to terms with this update. There is no pressure.

METEOR and AIM-120D are not similar designs. METEOR is relatively bulky as well.

METEOR is aimed to preserve fuel and maximize NEZ. It is designed with Rafale in mind. Rafale is not expected to match performance levels of F-15 variants in combat situations. Therefore, METEOR is expected to do heavylifting for Rafale in potential clashes in the BVR regime. This is sort of a gambit because there will be difference in launch speed and maximum distance which can be covered in view of how METEOR is designed and aimed to function. 1-way datalink is a shortcoming of Rafale however. You are expecting too much from a missile in both WVR and BVR regimes. This corresponds to Fire and Forget philosophy.

It is also unwise to assume that counterparts of METEOR are not fuel-efficient. There is no need to match METEOR in this matter but to be good enough. Remainder can be addressed with capabilities of the launching platform(s) and 2-way datalink system. Americans do not correspond to Fire and Forget philosophy. Same is true for some others.
 
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Can we come back to the topic and could a moderator clean up or even delete the last posts ?
 
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Even if Pakistan introduces J10c, it cannot be used to replace F16, especially F16b52 of the fifth squadron. J10c and F16b52 are at the same level and cannot be used for iteration. J10c can only be used to replace mirage. J35 that can use PL2x is suitable to replace F16.
 
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Even if Pakistan introduces J10c, it cannot be used to replace F16, especially F16b52 of the fifth squadron. J10c and F16b52 are at the same level and cannot be used for iteration. J10c can only be used to replace mirage. J35 that can use PL2x is suitable to replace F16.


I agree, Azm will replace F16s. where as J10Cs will be in too
 
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Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs?

June-22nd-2021




Chinese J-10C with PL-10 and PL-15 Missiles

The Pakistani Air Force’s combat jet acquisitions for over a decade have centred around the JF-17 Thunder fighter program, which has been pursued jointly with China and has seen the country acquire fighters both from Chinese production lines and from those located in Pakistan itself. Before the JF-17, Pakistan’s Air Force was comprised primarily of ‘very light’ third generation fighters and attack jets such as the J-7, Mirage III, Mirage 5 and Q-5, with a single elite squadron comprised of slightly heavier but still lightweight fourth generation F-16A/B Fighting Falcons. While the JF-17 has allowed Pakistan to replace the pre-fourth generation jets in its fleet with a ‘very light’ fourth generation fighter, which although in many ways more sophisticated than the F-16 has a much smaller engine and much lower operational cost, the JF-17 is not expected to replace the F-16 itself in service. Pakistan’s F-16 fleet is fast ageing, however, with the large majority comprised of F-16A/B fighters acquired in the early 1980s. This old F-16 variant has been retired by the majority of countries, with Egypt and Israel recently retiring their fleets, and only Taiwan and Venezuela expected to continue using them due to an inability to procure replacements.


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Pakistani Air Force F-16 Leads Mirage III and JF-17

Pakistan was the third country in the world to field the F-16 after the United States and Israel, and has upgraded the fighters over time including integrating modern AIM-120C air to air missiles onto them. A number of factors such as metal fatigue, however, mean that operational costs will only continue to rise and there will be growing pressure to retire the aircraft in favour of a more modern fighter - likely a lightweight or medium weight aircraft which will be larger and more capable than the JF-17. When Pakistan does so it will likely replace the jets with a non-American fighter class, as the U.S. is highly unlikely to offer a more capable aircraft such as the F-18E or F-35A. Although some unverified reports have indicated that Pakistan could consider purchasing MiG-35 fighters from Russia, this is unlikely due to Russia’s close defence ties with India, and the fact that India already operates MiG-29UPG jets which are in many ways similar, albeit much less capable, than the MiG-35. As such the most likely options are either that Pakistan will wait until its fifth generation Project AZM program being pursued with China can produce fighters, or that it will purchase Chinese J-10C fighter jets. The J-10C has notably been deployed to Pakistan in the past for joint training exercises, and reportedly made a very strong impression due to its advanced capabilities.


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Chinese J-10C Fighter

The J-10C entered service from 2018, and like the F-16 it is a single engine lightweight fighter. Having been designed several decades after the F-16, the J-10 is a much more advanced design boasting advantages in almost all parameters, including a higher speed, lower radar cross section and much greater manoeuvrability. The J-10C is the latest and most capable J-10 variant, and uses thrust vectoring engines for enhanced manoeuvrability - something no Western fighter other than the F-22 does. It benefits from stealth coatings for improved survivability. The aircraft uses a modern AESA radar paired with some of the world’s most capable air to air missiles, the PL-15 and PL-10, the former which is one of just two in the world confirmed to use an AESA radar for guidance. These missiles will also be deployed by upcoming improved variants of the JF-17.


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J-10C Equipped for Air Defence Suppression with YJ-91 and PL-10 Missiles

The J-10C would provide Pakistan with by far the most capable combat jet in its fleet, and benefits from a much lower operational cost and lower maintenance needs than the ageing F-16A airframes. Its access to YJ-91 cruise missiles provides much a much more dangerous air to ground capability than any Pakistani fighter. With the J-10C having reportedly proven capable of outperforming heavyweight Russian jets from the Flanker family, due largely to its more advanced radar and missiles, the Chinese-built fighter would provide an effective means of countering India’s most dangerous fighter class the Su-30MKI. A Pakistani J-10C purchase remains by far the most likely option should the country look to acquire new combat jets other than the JF-17, with China potentially providing the aircraft on highly favorable terms due to the close strategic partnership between the two countries. At least until the F-35 moves beyond its current very limited initial operating capability to eventually become fully operational, the J-10C will be considered the world’s most capable single engine fighter in overall performance.

Replacing the F-16: Will Pakistan’s Top Fighter Squadron Transition to Chinese J-10Cs? (militarywatchmagazine.com)



J-10 is not a solution..

i would like to 400 JF-17s Block III & and about 100 or Su-57 fifth generation planes.. that would constitute a good high low mix
 
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