Replacement for Turkish m113 Fleet Discussion

[-------]

Are these APC can take on any MBT one on one

The answer to your question is above;

I was a CV9030FIN gunner and I disagree with Lepr0n's assessment that CV90 is not a "tank". CV90 is not meant to engage MBTs so obviously it isn't heavily armored, and especially here in Finland CV's small size is to great benefit and many times in laser combat simulations I found myself outgunning Leopards because they could not turn their turrets in deep forests. While CV's main gun cannot penetrate an MBT's armor it can destroy its gun and optics very easily. If you engage an MBT head on with a CV you are toast, but that would be pretty damn stupid of you and the whole point is to place CV in areas where enemy MBT presence is limited or alternatively the CVs are accompanied by heavier support. And don't forget that the CV can carry 8 infantrymen with it, and setting up a proper ambush can take out any MBT with AT weapons.

 

[madmusti]

Are these APC can take on any MBT one on one

 

[Super Falcon]

What is this for im saying one on one not putting anti tank missiles on platform

 

[Signalian]

Are these APC can take on any MBT one on one

No.

APC / IFV isn't designed to take on MBT one on one.

 

[Super Falcon]

No.

APC / IFV isn't designed to take on MBT one on one.

Yes i knew it they carry troops but i dont see them inflacting major damages in battle field since helo are rulling skies

 

[Signalian]

Yes i knew it they carry troops but i dont see them inflacting major damages in battle field since helo are rulling skies

Now you are talking about two different things.

 

[Bismarck]

FNSS ACV-15 is still in service?

I talk about FNSS Pars and Otokar Tulbar.

Are these APC can take on any MBT one on one

Don't think so.

 

[Signalian]

I talk about FNSS Pars and Otokar Tulbar.

Regarding Tulpar.
The armament is good, 30mm. USA also had option of upgrading Bradley 25mm to 30mm in the Bushmaster series. Dual feed cannons have been used since a long time now. I think the Russian BTR and BMD series also uses it.
Dual feed does have an advantage in switching between HE and AP ammo.

Its main use seems to be providing fire support to Tanks, which could be a reason that a 30mm cannon is being used along with ATGM. An IFV 's job is providing fire support to infantry, not tanks exactly. It can become a quick target by enemy MBT's since it will be supporting armoured units of Turkish Army.
I think 25mm could have done the job also. Both 25mm or 30mm cannot still penetrate tanks to render them useless, however can damage them to a little extent. That could depend upon the angle of impact, ammunition type used and the targeted place on the tank turret.

For a confirmed kill on enemy IFV/APC, ATGM still seems a better choice than using 30mm.
For other light vehicles any cannon is good enough. For use in Urban combat, 25mm has shown good results, 30mm is also ok.

Many AA Weapons platform like Tunguska use 30mm, what elevation angle can Tulpar achieve to engage helos like CV90?

UMTAS ATGM is the main anti-tank weapon. It says long range upto 8km but is that a helo launched range or ground based ?
Can it fire ATGM on the move?

The protection against 25mm calibre weapons also depends on range but protection should have been focused against shaped charges, RPG's etc.
An active protection system should be there which is present in Altay (AKKOR?), otherwise enemy MBT will take on Altay MBT while the enemy ATGM teams will start taking out Tulpar supporting ALtay.

 

[Hurshid Celebi]

Don't think so.

Possible with additional Kornets.

 

[madmusti]

 

[-------]

This isn't M113, trim vane did good.

 

[madmusti]

This isn't M113, trim vane did good.

No it´s acv

 

[cabatli_53]

Project aiming to replace M-113 fleet, is to produce domestic 1700 IFV/APC.

TulPar is smiling !

 

[Bismarck]

Project aiming to replace M-113 fleet, is to produce domestic 1700 IFV/APC.

TulPar is smiling !

Or FNSS!

 

[era_shield]

From the "hated expert"

Turkey seeks hybrid solution in ‘new vs old weapons’ - DEFENSE UPDATE

Turkey’s military and procurement planners are favoring a “hybrid” approach which they believe will optimize their logistical requirements and help them maintain a fine balance between new and old gear.

“We have a general understanding to avoid both extremes,” said one procurement official in charge of planning. “We don’t think a general framework would yield the best result in every case in consideration, and I think the military agrees to that.”

An army colonel dealing with logistical issues confirmed the matter. “A template solution would cause waste. We agree with the procurement bureaucracy that a case-by-case analysis would produce better results for the logistical cycle.”

Until the early 2000s, the dominant thinking in the military general command was to force the expiry limits of every equipment or system mostly through repairs, maintenance and upgrades due, mostly, to financial constraints.

As the Turkish economy has grown steadily in the last decade, the country prospered and more funds were allocated for new equipment, the military began to make more careful cost-benefit analyses and discovered that in many cases, new equipment meant less spending.

In the past, foreign military aid, including surplus equipment from Western allies and the acquisition of second-hand systems, were also considered viable options. Those included the transfer to Turkey of second-hand frigates and tanks from the U.S.

To a limited scale, upgrades remain a popular option to this day. For instance, Turkey remains committed to upgrading a batch of 30 F-16 Block 30 fighter jets. The upgrade contract, dubbed “Özgür” (or “free” in Turkish) was awarded to defense electronics specialist Aselsan, Turkey’s biggest defense firm.

But reflecting Turkey’s selective, case-by-case policy, there are examples showing an opposite tendency. Earlier this year, the Turkish authorities decided to phase out about 100 F-4 and F-5 aircraft which the country had only upgraded in the early 2000s.

“We had budgetary concerns,” a military official dealing with the program said. “We concluded that it was too expensive to keep those aircraft in our inventory.”

The phase-out option is often most widely observed in the Turkish Air Force “because this service keeps in its inventory the kind of equipment and systems that would cost the most if not phased out,” the military official said.

But not always. Turkey is upgrading a fleet of C-130 transport aircraft, with the first modernized platform delivered just this year.

In 2012, Turkey also purchased a batch of six second-hand C-130E aircraft from Saudi Arabia. The combined cost of upgrades and Saudi acquisitions was nearly $100 million.

“On a more pessimistic note, you can say the Turkish policy is more based on random selection. I am not sure if the Turks are always able to meticulously calculate,” said one London-based Turkey specialist. “The Turkish choices can sometimes look inconsistent.”

The expert pointed out that on the one hand, Turkey is a partner of the multinational consortium that is building the future large aircraft, the A400M, and on the other, it is spending its money on upgrading its C-130s and buying second hand C-130Es. “Honestly, I don’t see the logic here,” he said.

Another example is that Turkey last year completed upgrading its Perry-class frigates while it ambitiously pursues a national program to build new-generation, indigenous frigates in a program that totals more than $2 billion.

The Perry-class frigates were upgraded by Turkey’s state-controlled military software company Havelsan in a program dubbed “Genesis.” The program cost Turkey around $150 million.

An Ankara-based military observer said the Turkish military was generally “slow” in its efforts to “get slimmer and better.”

“Turkey has numerous armored vehicles programs and hundreds of vehicles come out of the assembly line every year,” he said. “And at the same time the army is still using the nearly scrap M113 personnel carriers.”

In the past, Turkey upgraded scores of its aging M-48, M-60, Leopard I and Leopard II battle tanks. It is also negotiating to launch the serial production of its indigenous, new-generation tank, the Altay, another multi-billion dollar program.

“We can at least safely conclude that the tank upgrades in the future will be very limited in numbers,” the Ankara-based analyst said.

Only about 170 in Turkey’s entire battle tank inventory of 3,000 are upgraded platforms.

December/02/2014

I would prefer upgrading and of course "Smiling TULPAR".

@madmusti , insight look of the model

Same bok as always from Bokdil. He only writes decent articles in American media, probably because they would fire him if he wrote crap like this.