'Religious tensions' spark gunfight in French migrant camp

[Blue Marlin]

What did I just read here?? Is this a joke?



Nope, I was asking why they seem to ready to die/risk their lives just to get to Britain from France. Why leave france, spain, Italy, Portugaal and much of Europe jusst to come here, arent they comforrtable there enough?

.

thats a good question, france, spain and Italy are not that bad are they? i knw portugaal is in bad shape as is greece too. i wont mind living in france

 

[mike2000 is back]

thats a good question, france, spain and Italy are not that bad are they? i knw portugaal is in bad shape as is greece too. i wont mind living in france

Reason I said THESE PEOPLE ARE NO REFUGEES AT ALL. .
For REAL refugees always look for the nearest safe place/country in which they can live/seek shelter. In which case, these refugees from the middle East and North Africa should have seek asylum/refugee status in neughbouring Arab States or AT MOST in southern European countries/Russia. Britain being farrrrrr away should have been the last country in their list.

 

[waz]

Reason I said THESE ARE NO REFUGEES AT ALL. . For REAL refugees always look for the nearest safe place/country to live/seek shelter, in which case the refugeesin the region should have seek asylum/refugee status in neughbouring Arab States, or AT MOST in southern European countries/Russia. Britain being farrrrrr away should have been the last country on their list.

Ah that's where you are wrong my dear man. Haven't you seen the war torn landscape of Europe? I mean Northern France is literally being hit by artillery day and night. Greece is being overrun by hostile marines from a place far, far away and the rest of the continent is fighting for dear life against a yet unspecified arial threat. The UK is the only safe country they can seek refuge in.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Ah that's where you are wrong my dear man. Haven't you seen the war torn landscape of Europe? I mean Northern France is literally being hit by artillery day and night. Greece is being overrun by hostile marines from a place far, far away and the rest of the continent is fighting for dear life against a yet unspecified arial threat. The UK is the only safe country they can seek refuge in.

LOL well many economic migrants from countries in the Middle East, N.Africa etc are merely using the syrian civil war as an excuse to get here. They are for the large majority no refugees fleeing wars. The strategy(i call it scam) they are using is an old trick in the book. lol

I'm keenly against this not because i'm against immigrants/immigration per se, but simply because these guys are trying to jump the queue. They should follow the normal due process all other migrants/foreigners who want to come here follow, else its blatant cheating/unfair.
They can claim how its western countries who are to blame and bla bla bla. But we all know that's bullshit. Who cares anyway, that's music to our ears.

 

[waz]

LOL well many economic migrants from countries in the Middle East, N.Africa etc are merely using the syrian civil war as an excuse to get here. They are for the large majority no refugees fleeing wars. The strategy(i call it scam) they are using is an old trick in the book. lol

I'm keenly against this not because i'm against immigrants/immigration per se, but simply because these guys are trying to jump the queue. They should follow the normal due process all other migrants/foreigners who want to come here follow, else its blatant cheating/unfair.
They can claim how its western countries who are to blame and bla bla bla. But we all know that's bullshit. Who cares anyway, that's music to our ears.

100% agreed bro. We have more pressing concerns. I need to visit my local fire station and lend my support as they are thinking of axing it! My borough also has the highest rate of fire related deaths!

 

[Sky lord]

Really?

Technology and social media are basically the recruiting tools of ISIS.

If anything, it allows people to "self-radicalize" much easier, since they can access all sorts of forbidden (extremist) material in the comfort of their living rooms, without being traced (basic onion routing).

In the past, the Police could check out social/religious gatherings to see the danger of extremism, but now the real threat is "self-radicalized" lone wolves.

How do you catch a lone-wolf terrorist who "self-radicalizes" over the internet? They don't meet other terrorists, they don't talk about it with anyone, how do you catch them?

Of course, that doesn't mean technology is bad. Technology is a good thing. But you can't deny, with onion routing and programs like Tor, people can self-radicalize and there is absolutely no way to detect it.

As I said, I am an optimist

Having said that, here is my argument-

The internet disseminates all ideas including those that would normally be difficult to access. so everyone is exposed to pros and cons and differing opinions on everything. Any person can choose to self select extremist ISIS type viewpoint or they could listen to say Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens or new age Deepak Chopra type figures. Some of these ideas like those of say Richard Dawkins, many people would not have had access to in a traditional conservative family, ( in mAny communities you are not allowed to question core beliefs however irrational) however these well argued debates are freely available on the internet and would make an impression on some people, perhaps those who are more intelligent or imaginative at first.

Slowly but inevitably good arguments win over bad ones.

Well argued but revolutionary ideas slowly eat at the traditional setup and society changes towards a more scientific way of thought because medieval ideas depend on faith not on rationality. ( For example it is increasingly difficult for Saudi to keep women from driving because their women through technology can see that millions of women around the world drive without any ill effects).

Once society changes and becomes more rational, it becomes more and more unacceptable to have extremist ideas like those of ISIS - slow process - at least one or two generations maybe longer.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

As I said, I am an optimist

Having said that, here is my argument-

The internet disseminates all ideas including those that would normally be difficult to access. so everyone is exposed to pros and cons and differing opinions on everything. Any person can choose to self select extremist ISIS type viewpoint or they could listen to say Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens or new age Deepak Chopra type figures. Some of these ideas like those of say Richard Dawkins, many people would not have had access to in a traditional conservative family, ( in mAny communities you are not allowed to question core beliefs however irrational) however these well argued debates are freely available on the internet and would make an impression on some people, perhaps those who are more intelligent or imaginative at first.

Slowly but inevitably good arguments win over bad ones.

Well argued but revolutionary ideas slowly eat at the traditional setup and society changes towards a more scientific way of thought because medieval ideas depend on faith not on rationality. ( For example it is increasingly difficult for Saudi to keep women from driving because their women through technology can see that millions of women around the world drive without any ill effects).

Once society changes and becomes more rational, it becomes more and more unacceptable to have extremist ideas like those of ISIS - slow process - at least one or two generations maybe longer.

I admire your optimism, and I hope you are right.

From my viewpoint though, extremist views are getting louder and louder across the world. I hope more people choose the middle path, instead of veering to the far right or the far left.

 

[somebozo]

Germany will soon need to rennovate and re-open Awushwitz for these migrants as nobody wants them and their uncivilized presence..Saudis were every bit right..in not welcoming the Syrians..they know what they really are...

 

[Vergennes]

@waz @mike2000 is back @Blue Marlin @flamer84

France is so fcked up and in deep sh*t that even migrants don't want to stay here.

Lol I always asked myself why they all want to come here, cant they stay in France/spain/Italy? What's wrong with these countries??
@Blue Marlin ,@Steve781 , @Schutz , @Abingdonboy any thoughts on this?



I agree 100%

You have to ask yourselves why you're so attractive to them.

-You can work there without papers.
-Welfare in UK is very generous.
-Many have families or friends in the UK.
-Many speak English.


These immigrants refuse to apply for asylum here and we just want to get ride of them. In fact,we are glad that they are going to the UK. (Keeping them here only reinforce their determination.)

 

[Steve781]

Why don't the French deport these people? They must have come from Italy or Greece, both EU countries covered by the Dublin regulations.

@waz @mike2000 is back @Blue Marlin @flamer84

France is so fcked up and in deep sh*t that even migrants don't want to stay here.



You have to ask yourselves why you're so attractive to them.

-You can work there without papers.
-Welfare in UK is very generous.
-Many have families or friends in the UK.
-Many speak English.


These immigrants refuse to apply for asylum here and we just want to get ride of them. In fact,we are glad that they are going to the UK. (Keeping them here only reinforce their determination.)

Is it that generous? The average weekly payment for an asylum seekers is 37 pounds (28 Euros). I can't imagine France gives that much less.

 

[Vergennes]

Why don't the French deport these people? They must have come from Italy or Greece, both EU countries covered by the Dublin regulations.

Why don't we deport them ? Many are being deported everyweek,but the problem is that they keep coming. (Others keep coming .)

Is it that generous? The average weekly payment for an asylum seekers is 37 pounds (28 Euros). I can't imagine France gives that much less.

Many said benefits are more generous in the UK.

A MOTHER who collects almost £4,000 in benefits every month defiantly declared last night: “It’s not worth my while working.”

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/38...th-it-Benefits-mum-rakes-in-70-000-in-welfare

BTW,welfare might not be the only reason for them to go to the UK as i have stated above.

 

[waz]

@waz @mike2000 is back @Blue Marlin @flamer84

France is so fcked up and in deep sh*t that even migrants don't want to stay here.



You have to ask yourselves why you're so attractive to them.

-You can work there without papers.
-Welfare in UK is very generous.
-Many have families or friends in the UK.
-Many speak English.


These immigrants refuse to apply for asylum here and we just want to get ride of them. In fact,we are glad that they are going to the UK. (Keeping them here only reinforce their determination.)

Sadly the welfare system for asylum seekers is very generous, especially if housing, education and health are factored in. It's not all about the weekly living expense payment they receive from the government.
As for the family and friends argument, many of them do not have any connection here, even so that doesn't mean they have an entitlement to come to this country. As for speaking English, so do many other countries, they can try their luck elsewhere.