Religious identity of Pakistanis stronger than other peoples

[SBD-3]

Our Ideology is Islam and Our identity is Pakistan.
Being a Muslim and being a Pakistani are opposite sides of same coin................
Our Foundation stands on Islam, we are the only nation in World which was created on name of Islam thus there is no power which can undo it. Interesting times ahead ....................

Two nation theory was created purely for political basis. It was subsequently hijacked by religious cult for giving legitimacy to their ideological illusion of two nations theory. Ever wonder why Pakistan is the only country to be formed on the name of Islam out of 49 or so Islamic countries. If only Pakistan is gotten in the name of Islam then that makes other Islamic countries as unislamic. Do you even know that Nationalism is strictly prohibited in Islam? There cannot be any country whatsoever in Islam but only a unitary state. If there are more than one states in Islam, you are relieved of your duty to give allegiance to one until the unitary status is reconstituted. Pakistani is the only country where every aggressor including insurgents, states as well as every oppressor uses the name of Islam. Pakistan was made a country for Muslims but not a country for Islam since it violated the ideology of Islam by its mere creation. Iqbal also claimed a homeland for Muslims, not Islam. Jinnah knew the implications of this and tried to unwind the theory but the powerful quarters censored his speech and rather brought Objectives resolution to cement their theological hold on the country.

 

[Tipu7]

Discussion will turn very lengthy as I disagree with almost every point you made.
So lets be it .............

Two nation theory was created purely for political basis. It was subsequently hijacked by religious cult for giving legitimacy to their ideological illusion of two nations theory. Ever wonder why Pakistan is the only country to be formed on the name of Islam out of 49 or so Islamic countries. If only Pakistan is gotten in the name of Islam then that makes other Islamic countries as unislamic. Do you even know that Nationalism is strictly prohibited in Islam? There cannot be any country whatsoever in Islam but only a unitary state. If there are more than one states in Islam, you are relieved of your duty to give allegiance to one until the unitary status is reconstituted. Pakistani is the only country where every aggressor including insurgents, states as well as every oppressor uses the name of Islam. Pakistan was made a country for Muslims but not a country for Islam since it violated the ideology of Islam by its mere creation. Iqbal also claimed a homeland for Muslims, not Islam. Jinnah knew the implications of this and tried to unwind the theory but the powerful quarters censored his speech and rather brought Objectives resolution to cement their theological hold on the country.

 

[SBD-3]

Discussion will turn very lengthy as I disagree with almost every point you made.
So lets be it .............

Yes it will but please do find me the source where Islam permits nationalism. I'll appreciate that.

 

[Tipu7]

Yes it will but please do find me the source where Islam permits nationalism. I'll appreciate that.

You want religious reference?
Because definition of Nationalism vary from region to region and society to society. Most people confuse it with Patriotism.
Islam does un appreciate Nationalism but it is conditional. Not some Haram stuff which you cannot adopt at all.
Like consider Indo Pak situation, India Muslims will fight Pakistani Muslims on the behalf of ''India'' (a nationalists move)
But Pakistan will fight against Indians with religious motives,......... in this case the justification of Pakistan reasoning of war is appreciated by Islam, but in Indian muslim case, its not.
Its bit complex but understandable concept.

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

these polls shows that the reason behind creation of pakistan is not dead.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

Pakistan is the product of a hundred and fifty years of Muslim struggle for independence against a possible Hindu majority rule of the subcontinent, by our belief and zeal in Islam we were able to achieve a nation that practically didn't exist 70 years ago, so it is the same when a Pakistani Muslim considers himself a Muslim first because without Islam there would have been no Pakistan, Islam is our strength not our weakness, Indian nationalist Muslims on the other hand joined Congress and tried to sabotage the freedom struggle for Pakistan and their descendants now are getting killed over possible consumption of beef in today's India, anyways foreigners who are not aware of Pakistan's history and struggle for independence would never understand this.

 

[SBD-3]

You want religious reference?
Because definition of Nationalism vary from region to region and society to society. Most people confuse it with Patriotism.
Islam does un appreciate Nationalism but it is conditional. Not some Haram stuff which you cannot adopt at all.
Like consider Indo Pak situation, India Muslims will fight Pakistani Muslims on the behalf of ''India'' (a nationalists move)
But Pakistan will fight against Indians with religious motives,......... in this case the justification of Pakistan reasoning of war is appreciated by Islam, but in Indian muslim case, its not.
Its bit complex but understandable concept.

Islam is a religion, not a region or society. And what I see is jumbled effort to create a thing out of thin air. Please provide me a pinpoint reference to where Islam has encouraged or permitted the concept of nationalism.
If Pakistan will fight with the Indians under the ambit of religion then where does this put Pak-China relationships? China is also as mushrik as India according to Islam. And why we haven't responded to the invasions by the US? Instead serving their purpose in the name of Islam? they are also as non-muslims as the Indians? Dont try to link the geographic obsession with India to Islam, for Islam's sake.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

Islam is a religion, not a region or society. And what I see is jumbled effort to create a thing out of thin air. Please provide me a pinpoint reference to where Islam has encouraged or permitted the concept of nationalism.
If Pakistan will fight with the Indians under the ambit of religion then where does this put Pak-China relationships? China is also as mushrik as India according to Islam. And why we haven't responded to the invasions by the US? Instead serving their purpose in the name of Islam? they are also as non-muslims as the Indians? Dont try to link the geographic obsession with India to Islam, for Islam's sake.

Such a stupid post, first where does the concept of nationalism comes when it comes to Pakistan?, as I said before Pakistan in a nutshell was a Muslim struggle for independence against a possible Hindu majority rule of the subcontinent while Indian nationalist Muslims joined congress and tried to end this struggle, if anyone today recognizes himself as a Pakistani nationalist which doesn't make any sense nor such a view is connected with our history but if they want to well that's good, where as a Pakistani Muslim who identifies himself as a Muslim first is more patriotic and more connected with our history and our forefathers than anyone else, he is a patriotic and a proud Pakistani because he knows that Pakistan was created in the name of Islam.

Tell me where does China or US being a non Muslim nations comes in all of this?

 

[SBD-3]

Such a stupid post, first where does the concept of nationalism comes when it comes to Pakistan?, as I said before Pakistan in a nutshell was a Muslim struggle for independence against a possible Hindu majority rule of the subcontinent while Indian nationalist Muslims joined congress and tried to end this struggle, if anyone today recognizes himself as a Pakistani nationalist which doesn't make any sense nor such a view is connected with our history but if they want to well that's good, where as a Pakistani Muslim who identifies himself as a Muslim first is more patriotic and more connected with our history and our forefathers than anyone else, he is a patriotic and a proud Pakistani because he knows that Pakistan was created in the name of Islam.

Tell me where does China or US being a non Muslim nations comes in all of this?

Probably you should read my post first before making this flood of words.

 

[pak-marine]

The molvies / ulema are there to keep us confused btw ""which came first chicken or the egg " so that can get their millions from zakats , khums & sadka funds and play proxy goons for respective sects . Got to give credit where due they have done a good job the survey proves pakistan has the highest rate.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

There cannot be any country whatsoever in Islam but only a unitary state. If there are more than one states in Islam, you are relieved of your duty to give allegiance to one until the unitary status is reconstituted.

After the first four Khalifahs of Islam there has never been a unitary state among the Muslim world, the Ottoman Turks were able to replicate this to an extent but when the Ottoman Khilafah fell, there was a non cooperation movement born in the subcontinent which was known as a Khilfat movement of the 1920's with the intention to try to save the Khilafah (where as the Arab nationalists worked with the west to try to break up the Ottomans) so you see the freedom for Pakistan was in action decades before, from the time of Shah Walliulah and Sir Syed Ahmed Khan to Chaudry Rehmat Ali and the Ali brothers up to the final optimum leadership of Allama Iqbal and the Quaid, Quadi-e-Azam himself at one point was against the creation of Pakistan and were convinced by other leaders to fight for Pakistan, regarding the unitary state you see Pakistan is based on Islamic ideology and is an ideological state not a nationalist one which means that the borders of Pakistan can be extended and expanded to encompass the Islamic ideology, Nationalism weakens Pakistan and reduces her to nothing more than a moth eaten state where as an ideological Pakistan which is intertwined with our history and forefathers has an opportunity to become an empire.

@HAKIKAT @war&peace

 

[Silverblaze]

Rejecting secularism while living in Canada is a sign of ultimate hypocrisy, and the less said about the ulema - funded by various countries - the better. Religious identity means different things for different sects. Pakistani nationalism includes all groups.

 

[SBD-3]

After the first four Khalifahs of Islam there has never been a unitary state among the Muslim world, the Ottoman Turks were able to replicate this to an extent but when the Ottoman Khilafah fell, there was a non cooperation movement born in the subcontinent which was known as a Khilfat movement of the 1920's with the intention to try to save the Khilafah (where as the Arab nationalists worked with the west to try to break up the Ottomans) so you see the freedom for Pakistan was in action decades before, from the time of Shah Walliulah and Sir Syed Ahmed Khan to Chaudry Rehmat Ali and the Ali brothers up to the final optimum leadership of Allama Iqbal and the Quaid, Quadi-e-Azam himself at one point was against the creation of Pakistan and were convinced by other leaders to fight for Pakistan, regarding the unitary state you see Pakistan is based on Islamic ideology and is an ideological state not a nationalist one which means that the borders of Pakistan can be extended and expanded to encompass the Islamic ideology, Nationalism weakens Pakistan and reduces her to nothing more than a moth eaten state where as an ideological Pakistan which is intertwined with our history and forefathers has an opportunity to become an empire.

@HAKIKAT @war&peace

Perhaps you should read up on the history so as to why Imam Hassan (RA) gave up his right of Caliphhood and why The likes of Abdullah Ibn Umar, Muhammad Bin Alhanifiya and Saeed bin Musaib didn't give any allegence to either Ibn Zubyr or Marwan until one was defeated. The history you talk about was the age of Kingship, not Khilafat.I encourage you to read Political history like Tabqat Ibn e Saad and the biography of Abdullah Bin Masood and to what he referred as the Hablillah as opposed to now explained view of it being Quran.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Yes it will but please do find me the source where Islam permits nationalism. I'll appreciate that.

Islam prohibits Ethnic Nationalism (Nationalism derived from your ethnicity) - this is also refereed to as "Tribalism" in the Hadith.

Religious nationalism is completely permitted; it's the reason why Pakistan isnt broken into a dozen smaller countries.

 

[Darth Vader]

I dont How come two can be different from each other
Religion is the way of life
A country Is a place where People chose Its Laws and systems and implement there way of life