Religious circumcision of kids a crime - German court

[INDIC]

Circumcision prevents AIDS is a false claim although it has few benefits.

 

[KRAIT]

Am i on defence.pk site or medical.pk

Seriously guys is it matter of world affairs or defence related.

 

[yoku]

Am i on defence.pk site or medical.pk

Seriously guys is it matter of world affairs or defence related.

it's a defence site alright. it's also Pakistani. hence it is what it is.

 

[RazPaK]

Rather than 'going to holy war', a better option would be to excel in the legal, financial or media professions and work the system from within to control the desired outcomes. It is the longer, harder route, which is why it is not known to the simpleton firebrand mullahs, but, ultimately, it delivers far better results.

What you have described is what my holy war would be.

You have to stop taking these western terms at face value.

Surenas is a sad pathetic soul which Muslims, Iranians, nor Europeans will ever accept. He holds the title of "baad". So don't be angry with him, but feel sorry for him.


His story is exactly that of the shaitaan. He is vengeful. Let us all pray for his accursed soul.

 

[RazPaK]

I don't know how to explain the term "baad", but I wrote it in urdu for you guys.

I wrote in two different ways for you Surenas:

 

[kobiraaz]

BS. Circumcision prevents several diseases including cancer in penis! Then BCG vaccinating after 1 month of Birth is also a crime as it forms a papule, then ulcer and at the end everyone bears a round mark on their left arm though out whole life!

 

[kobiraaz]

Not of any significant importance.

Scroll down in the wiki page Carcinoma In Penis and it says Circumcision during infancy or in childhood provides partial protection against penile cancer, but this is not the case when performed in adulthood.[12]

But you get reduced sexual pleasure due to insensitivity of the skin.


So that you can have two penises each, one circumcised and one without?

Actually it is quite opposite ! Glans penis is the most sensitive part i mean that pink portion!

 

[user1]

One of the reasons why i respect Hinduism and Hindus.

Still, it's the principle. Insulting my religion does not earn points in my book. Nor him using "Jews should not get special treatment" while the vast majority circumcised in the world are Muslim.

P.S for anyone doubting the health benefits:

Clean-Cut: Study Finds Circumcision Helps Prevent HIV and Other Infections

Clean-Cut: Study Finds Circumcision Helps Prevent HIV and Other Infections: Scientific American

In fact, the foreskin's anatomical function actually amplifies the risks. In uncircumcised men the foreskin covers and protects the tip of the penis, paradoxically making the skin there more delicate and prone to microscopic abrasions. These tiny injuries promote inflammation, Fauci says, allowing the virus to come into closer contact with target immune cells. The moist environment that forms under the foreskin also enhances the growth of microbes on the penis's tip, Fauci adds, further stimulating immune responses near the skin's surface.

This is a comment from above cited article:

Circumcision is a dangerous distraction in the fight against AIDS. There are six African countries where men are *more* likely to be HIV+ if they've been circumcised: Cameroon, Ghana, Lesotho, Malawi, Rwanda, and Swaziland. Eg in Malawi, the HIV rate is 13.2% among circumcised men, but only 9.5% among intact men. In Rwanda, the HIV rate is 3.5% among circumcised men, but only 2.1% among intact men. If circumcision really worked against AIDS, this just wouldn't happen. We now have people calling circumcision a "vaccine" or "invisible condom", and viewing circumcision as an alternative to condoms.

The one randomized controlled trial into male-to-female transmission showed a 54% higher rate in the group where the men had been circumcised btw.

ABC (Abstinence, Being faithful, Condoms) is the way forward. Promoting genital surgery will cost African lives, not save them.

I am neither favouring nor against the circumcision. But, just like any other religious practice there will be proponents and adversaries bringing out the evidence in favour and against the said subject.

For some, the faith demands it.
For others, everything prescribed by any religion deserves condemnation and nullification.

The people from both sides can be medics, journalists, scientists and 'World authorities'. The boundaries between Science and Pseudo-science are sometimes diffuse and subjective.

In Quran, there is no mentioning of circumcision. Why not? if it is so important!

The first historical records of circumcision come from Egypt, but there is also an ancient tradition of circumcision in some sub-Saharan ethnic groups. Egyptians, most probably acquired this tradition from Sub-Saharan Africa. Prophet Moses (PBUH) was Egyptian and so were his followers who later founded the Judaism. They must have brought this tradition from Egypt and incorporated it into Judaism and by the process of 'Hadithification' of Islam now almost every Muslim on the planet is circumcised.

P.S. I was circumcised by my parents at age 5. I am still reluctant to think of doing same to my 3 year old. Reason: Quran is silent about circumcision.

 

[RuheTag]

Same discussion in a topic in a Germany's local forum:

Religious circumcisions are crimes says court - Toytown Germany

 

[kobiraaz]

Erm....doesn't it take time for the penis to dry and heal?

I did it when I was 12. Never mind asking me about the experience.

*it was the most painful experience in my entire life*

errr 12?? I was 5!

 

[RuheTag]

I havent read all the 13 pages of this thread if this has been pointed out...

Circumcision IS NOT declared illegal in Germany,, with current ruling it would b forbidden for parents to decide if they want to chop their under age sons penis on any grounds other than neccasary medical grounds.

Any adult can have this done anytime in Germany on his own decision based on religious or any other grounds. The Law doesnt interfares with any adult's religious beliefs as long as it doesnt effects others.

So the difference is clear,,

Circumcision of an adult as his own decision : OK
Circumcision of a child on any grounds other any medical neccassity: No




I just wanted to make the fact clear. I am not voicing any opinion on Circumcision.

 

[Hack-Hook]

You can wait till he gets major to get him circumcised.

then most of medical benefit from circumcision in reducing penile cancer and preventing UTI in childhood would be nullify and the only remaining benefits would be that reduction in getting STD's

For example Circumcision can reduce the risk of getting Aids in the man by 60%. a man who is not circumcised have about 3% chance of getting Aids in each episode of having sex with a patient but the risk for a circumcised person is less than 1.5%

But you get reduced sexual pleasure due to insensitivity of the skin.

Studies have shown that there is no difference in sexual pleasure between people who are circumcised and the ones who are not.

Besides, the whole aids-preventing argument is nonsense. If you don't want to have aids, you can use a condom.

well you are welcome to try hammer that into the head of a drunk teenager , specially one who live in a country which between 10-40 % of people are infected

 

[saix]

The ruling does ban parents from circumcising children for religious reasons. While some people might argue about the benefits of circumcision, it is better to let parents choose what is best for their children. If religious circumcision is illegal some parents may do underground circumcisions which would be unsafe. It would be best if we could let children grow up and choose if they want to be circumcised but circumcision is much easier and safer to do on children. Most people would not want to be circumcised when they are older.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

hood would be nullify and the only remaining benefits would be that reduction in getting STD's

For example Circumcision can reduce the risk of getting Aids in the man by 60%. a man who is not circumcised have about 3% chance of getting Aids in each episode of having sex with a patient but the risk for a circumcised person is less than 1.5%

Do you a source to back that up?

 

[RuheTag]

Actually, they way currently these circumcision s are mostly carried out, is pretty brutal. For example, see this video of some Dr. in India:-

This even sounds a bit gentle but in rural Pakistan,, Nayee or barbers do this,, without any anesthesia..... and after cutting they just put ashes on it.