Religion is a private matter of an individual: DG ISPR

[Norwegian]

The army as an institution falls under the supreme Constitution of Pakistan.

From there it reserves its power.

A part of the state. Not the state.

People have a very undemocratic approach in Pakistan which hampers democracy itself

Correct. That's why this statement from DG ISPR is plain wrong.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

One part of the state. Not the state themselves.

This is Pakistan Army. That makes big chunk of the state. Many would even say the dominant part of the state. Looking at Pakistan's history they have basis to say that.

Correct. That's why this statement from DG ISPR is plain wrong.

Why?

 

[El Sidd]

This is Pakistan Army. That makes big chunk of the state. Many would even say the dominant part of the state. Looking at Pakistan's history they have basis to say that.

Why?

As the biggest institution they have a say but that say in the end has to go hand in hand with the others.

That's why all martial laws have a personal thing about them. Now why are we getting personal all of a sudden.

You need to separate the facts and fiction.

The state is as a head of an institution about itself. Where once declared religion is infact a private thing.

 

[Verve]

People going berserk here should watch the ISPR presser that took place 30-60mins after the Khatm-e-Nabuwat legislation reversal ... 'no compromise' was said.

It's amazing that some have taken this as some sort of endorsement of secularism .... gosh ... like the 11th August speech ....

 

[El Sidd]

Correct. That's why this statement from DG ISPR is plain wrong.

Just misinterpreted by those who seek make policies in an undemocratic way.

Just misinterpretation. Just watch the interview. Lol nothing different than your average day.

People are just high on anxiety

 

[VCheng]

He said that “one does not have to prove to the world that one is a Muslim; it is between one and the Almighty.”

However, abiding by the "trust, but verify" policy, the Army and all branches of Pakistan government like to see a certain form filled out and signed, you know, just to be sure.

Really, his words are meaningless without an accompanying announcement that that particular attestation is being withdrawn across the board. Actions speak louder than words, as always.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

@El Sidd Things will change. And change toward secularism. Mark those words. Nothing is constant. Why am I so sure? You know they say a "man is known by the company he keeps". You think Pakistan can have a full and consolidated relationship with uber-athiest people like Chinese and not get effected by them? All societies are effected by external variables. How the hell do you think we got converted? The likes of you were once singing praises of Buddhism as loudly as robustly as you do about Islam. Then external influences and forces brought change. That is how the world works.

Now imagine CPEC. Already the winds of influence from China are blowing in. As CPEC takes off over the next few decades Chinese influence will increase. And you know what they think of Muslims. Take a visit to Kashgar or Urumqi. So I reason to believe that the tide will run one way. This tide is dominant.

 

[El Sidd]

@El Sidd Things will change. And change toward secularism. Mark those words. Nothing is constant. Why am I so sure? You know they say a "man is known by the company he keeps". You think Pakistan can have a full and consolidated relationship with uber-athiest people like Chinese and not get effected by them? All societies are effected by external variables. How the hell do you think we got converted? The likes of you were once singing praises of Buddhism as loudly as robustly as you do about Islam. Then external influences and forces brought change. That is how the world works.

Now imagine CPEC. Already the winds of influence from China are blowing in. As CPEC takes off over the next few decades Chinese influence will increase. And you know what they think of Muslims. Take a visit to Kashgar or Urumqi. So I reason to believe that the tide will run one way. This tide is dominant.

The region has seen every philosophy come and go.

Why would it be any different to anything? Those who ask secularism don't speak the Chinese language but the English language.

There is an eternal cap on secularism pure form of government in Pakistan.

Islamic secularism may apply once education is profound enough.

But good news is Pakistan will flourish. That's all that matters right now. Your words can be marked on stone. They will remain just words.

Nostradamus are born each day a plenty in the Indus valley.

 

[padamchen]

How the hell do you think we got converted?

How do you think?

Cheers, Doc

 

[Norwegian]

Why?

Because religion is never a private matter in Pakistani institutions. And military is no exception to the rule

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Nostradamus are born each day a plenty in the Indus valley.

I am not a nostradamus. But you can etch this fact in stone "change is the only constant". And the mighty Indus region is testimony to that fact.

And flourish Indus will. With rise of CHina. With rise of CPEC. Flourish Indus will. And that will hasten change.

 

[Norwegian]

Islamic secularism may apply once education is profound enough

That's a contradictory statement as Islam has no concept of secularism

 

[padamchen]

That's a contradictory statement as Islam has no concept of secularism

Truest words on this thread.

I'm afraid Kaptaan is divorced from the reality of Pakistan.

Or any Islamic state for that matter.

At best what one can hope for, is an Indonesia type Muslim-dominant Utopia (for non-Muslims that is ...)

Secularism assumes equality. That there is the first insurmountable hurdle. The absence of violence would be a happy compromise.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Indus Pakistan]

How do you think?

Likes of @El Sidd were one day shouting as robustly about wonders of Buddhism but then change came along. Economic, political, military and social pressure all converged and washed away the past and in came the new. The constant change is one fact of life. Evolve.

Sufi, sword, economics, power ....

I'm afraid Kaptaan is divorced from the reality of Pakistan.

Yes as things stand now. I am looking over the horizon ..

 

[padamchen]

Sufi, sword, economics, power ....

Survival.

The Sufi bit is a coping mechanism.

Cheers, Doc