Rejecting an alleged miracle of Ghous Pak Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jillani leads to being beaten up by charged crowd

[villageidiot]

Another GLORIOUS day in the heaven that is the ISLAMIC republic of Pakistan.
Funny enough, every one of those hardcore Islamic warriors beating that poor man would spit on the Quran if offered a one way ticked to the evil secular west.

That's a bit harsh but you are right. My next door neighbor, my father's classfellow, took asylum as a Qadiani in some european country in the 70s or 80s. He's a british citizen now

 

[PDF]

And the same imam Malik revisited many of the then prevalent Muslim practices of his time eminating from hadees during the last 25 or so years of his life . And when confronted by his students in madinah he'd reply in a philosophical manner "I don't know"




Brother why hadees isn't considered part of the Revelation If it was inspired by The Almighty ?

Because the Prophet Muhammad SAW informed us to what is part of Quran and what is not to be included in Quran.
Hadiths are nevertheless necessary as there are many commands in Quran which do not have details.
E.g, We are told to observe prayers (Aqeemus Salah) but we are not told in Quran the timings, the rakahs or the method of praying. Same case for Zakah as to what value is Zakah obligatory etc and so on.

Similarly there are tons of other things. Hadith's thus are complementary are a necessity.

I rest my case.

 

[villageidiot]

What you need to be worried about is the rise of atheism/agnosticism. Considering the kind of f**ked up things that we see from our so-called religious people, it shouldn't be surprising that many of our young people are becoming godless. I can't blame them as I too was going in that direction at one point in my life but to me, there's no reason to continue living if God doesn't exist so I had to do research on all the major religions to figure out which one is the true path. The only ones that made sense were Islam and Judaism. After further research, I fell in love with Islam and my heart fully accepted it.

@villageidiot @Bleek

10000% true. The biggest problem that are ignoring in our unending sectarian circus is the spectre of atheism. Whilst we are fighting whether to offer Namaz with hands tied at waist or chest, more and more people are not offering namaz anymore.

I was surprised to find the two of my favorite posters there at athiests.

I've hated molvis with a passion from a very young age. Ever since I got into reading about Islam very early in school. Like 5th grade. Here's why:
There are merits to liberalism that are applicable to all humanity, such as human rights, equality etc. and then there's the degeneracy like LGBTQ. People want to be associated with a group. And with with these jahil molvis painting a beautiful picture of Islam, weak minds see imported degeneracy that comes along genuine liberal ideas from the west as the alternative.

I said this earlier in this thread, if it wasn't for my religious upbringing, mostly by my father (he's an M.A. in Islamiat among other degrees. he also doesn't identify with any sect), and my IMMENSE hatred of molvis for distorting Islam, I would have taken molvis Islam for real Islam. I'd never have known Islam beyond whatever it is molvis have turned it into, and I'd probably be an athiest. No thinking man will accept this, except the zombies in our society. That why I think those aforementioned posters, who I find very logical, are athiests.

I used to work for a company and met this senior lady, she was talking to me about Muslims religious extremism and she said we Christians used to have same issues and then slowly the later generations had enough of all the hatred and violence, so they all decided its best to move on and they all became non religious, they know Christians are right but don't care about it any more. She said now the churches are empty so mosques will also be the same.

Exactly.

Same plan is being implemented on the Muslims. Make them fight, argue, spread hatred so the next generations will end up hating islam as everyone is negative and arguing.

Disagree. Implemented by whom? No one needs to do any saazish against us. No outsider can do us any harm that we aren't already do to ourselves. We need to stop blaming others and look inwards.

Christians also had reformists, people who wanted to change Christianity even more than before, they also issued fatwas, called each other as non Christians etc.

Those schisms like protestantism were the natural reaction to tradionalist/catholic corruption, much like the jahalat we have today. But, they were no reforms, they were just the flickering of a dying light. Same thing will happen to us if WE don't adjust course. Writing on the wall

 

[villageidiot]

You may disagree with Eng Ali Mirza on many things but his position regarding Banu Umayyah and Mu'awiya I is much closer to mainstream Sunnis. Deobandis follow Wahhabi version of history and falsely present it as mainstream Sunni position. Dr Tahir ul Qadri has explained this in detail

I haven't heard his position in detail. Never really watched him. Just seen some clips here and there surfing on twitter. So, I am not sure what EXACTLY is his position. I know he is against Hazrat Muaviya RA in that debate. If I had to take sides in that debate, I would side with Hazrat Ali RA too. I just don't like the his irreverant manner when talking about this. One needs to be considerate of the Sahaba's honor.

 

[Mentee]

Hadiths are nevertheless necessary as there are many commands in Quran which do not have details.
E.g, We are told to observe prayers (Aqeemus Salah) but we are not told in Quran the timings, the rakahs or the method of praying. Same case for Zakah as to what value is Zakah obligatory etc and so on.

I respectfully disagree to what you are implying -----.



This verse not only clearly talks about the numbers but also the timming of the Salat


(11:114) And establish the Salat at the two ends of the day and in the first hours of the night.[113] Indeed the good deeds drive away the evil deeds. This is a Reminder to those who are mindful of Allah.




As for the percentage of charity, This verse has explained it all

Al Anfal verse 41

And know that anything you obtain of profit – then indeed, for Allah is one fifth of it and for the Messenger and for near relatives and the orphans, the needy, and the traveler, if you have believed in Allah and in that which We sent down to Our Servant on the day of criterion – the day when the two armies met. And Allah, over all things, is competent.


the Muslim priesthood in cohorts with the royalty of the day applied poetic standards to Al Quran for manipulating /changing the meaning of the word 'Ghanimtum' as spoils of war and many others ,which isn't factual as then what would the title of the Surah means ? Or is Allah Swt using two separate words for conveying a same meaning , I don't think so.


Didn't Allah Swt warn in the Quran not to take His words as poetry?

Hadiths are nevertheless necessary as there are many commands in Quran which do not have details.

Should I seek other than Allah as a lawmaker when it is He who has brought down to you the Book fully detailed? 6:114



We did not leave anything out of the Book. 6:38



This is not a fabricated hadith, but an authentication of what came before it, a detailed account of all things, and guidance and mercy for people who believe.12:111

 

[El Sidd]

I say this as a barelvi

I thought you were from Kashmir, Pakistan. You never mentioned you are from Rai Bareilly, India?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Sheikh Chilli of Pakistan

Miracle performing Seikh of Pakistan


BEHOLD ......SEIKH QADIR JILANI rising a boat out of river with people inside with his Karishma/Jadoo/Mujaza (Miracle)

Seikh Chilli , will now focus his powers on Stock Exchange

 

[Neelo]

Another fine example of why religion and state should be separate.

 

[villageidiot]

Another fine example of why religion and state should be separate.

Nah, that's only half the solution. It's separate in india too. And they are worse than us.

 

[Neelo]

Nah, that's only half the solution. It's separate in india too. And they are worse than us.

India is no example of a secular state - it only masqerades as one.

Turkey and Malaysia (Muslim countries) are far more in line with the vision of Muslim League and Jinnah.

We should use them as examples.

 

[PDF]

I respectfully disagree to what you are implying -----.

Let's agree to disagree.

 

[mangochutney]

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid02Z8NRMGCUMU3Lxzn5bNofdfY6v64i4an22WAo3cTQ8ZrJvrvj83465PHnqre68Lrhl&id=100000553264488

What the heck is that

Astagfirullah

 

[M. Sarmad]

The contradictory hadiths can best be understood by a Muhadis who can tell the circumstances to the Hadith such as temporary ban during revelation of Quran, or the hadith meant not writing down Quran and Hadith at same time, book or place etc.

This is the main argument put forward by Muhadiseen who claim that writing down Hadith was prohibited initially for the fear that it might "get mixed" with the Holy Qur'an but such a ban was later removed. A little scrutiny of historical records, however, can easily refute this argument. For example, the verse of the Holy Qur'an that says that protecting the Zikr/Qur'an is Allah's responsibility was revealed in Makkah. Whereas the Sahih Muslim Hadith in which we are told that Muhammad ordered erasing/discarding everything other than Qur'an is narrated by Abu Saeed Khudri, an Ansari (who wasn't allowed to participate in Battle of Uhud as he was too young at that time). This essentially means that Hadith writing was prohibited by the prophet (pbuh) towards the end of his life at a time when Qur'an was already revealed (almost entirely). What further corroborates this position is the fact that Abu Hurairah who also confirmed that Prophet Muhammad forbade writing down of Hadith became a Muslim only 2 to 3 years before the death of the Holy Prophet

Moreover, following the Sunnah, none from the rightly guided Caliphs who came after Muhammad allowed Hadith compilation / writing down during their rules. There are even reports of strict punishment for those who wrote or even narrated Ahadith during that time.

Hadith Scholars claim that as the companions/Sahaba passed away a fear arose among Muslims that they might lose Ahadith (sayings attributed to the Holy Prophet) forever, Tabi'in allowed writing down of Hadith and there was an Ijma (consensus) among Tabi'in that the Hadith-writing ban had become time barred and wasn't needed any longer. But then again there is one serious problem here. Ijma cannot reverse Sunnah as per established principles of Fiqh

Ahadith are an extremely useful source of information, history and knowledge, and wholesale rejection of Ahadith is a stupid idea. But at the same time treating Ahadith in the same way as we treat Qur'anic verses is also a bad idea that has been the root cause of most of the confusion and infighting among Muslims throughout history

 

[El Sidd]

This is the main argument put forward by Muhadiseen who claim that writing down Hadith was prohibited initially for the fear that it might "mix" with the Holy Qur'an but such a ban was later removed. A little scrutiny of historical records, however, can easily refute this argument. For example, the verse of the Holy Qur'an that says that protecting the Zikr/Qur'an is Allah's responsibility was revealed in Makkah. Whereas the Sahih Muslim Hadith in which we are told that Muhammad ordered erasing/discarding everything other than Qur'an is narrated by Abu Saeed Khudri, an Ansari (who wasn't allowed to participate in Battle of Uhud due to his young age). This essentially means that Hadith writing was prohibited by the prophet (pbuh) towards the end of his life at a time when Qur'an was already revealed (almost entirely). What further corroborates this position is the fact that Abu Hurairah who also confirmed that Prophet Muhammad forbade writing down of Hadith became a Muslim only 2 to 3 years before the death of the Holy Prophet

Moreover, following the Sunnah, none from the rightly guided Caliphs who came after Muhammad allowed Hadith compilation / writing down during their rules. There are even reports of strict punishment for those who wrote or even narrated Ahadith during that time.

Hadith Scholars claim that as the companions/Sahaba passed away a fear arose that Muslims might lose sayings of the Holy Prophet forever, Tabi'in allowed writing down of Hadith and there was an Ijma (consensus) among Tabi'in that the Hadith-writing ban had become time barred and wasn't needed any longer. But then again there is one serious problem here. Ijma cannot reverse Sunnah as per established principles of Fiqh

Ahadith are an extremely useful source of information, history and knowledge, and wholesale rejection of Ahadith is a stupid idea. But at the same time treating Ahadith in the same way as we treat Qur'anic verses is also a bad idea and is the root cause of most of the confusion and infighting among Muslims throughout history

All these collected books and traditions come with terms and condition that they would not contradict the Eternal Spoken Word.

Arabs hail from Oral culture and writing things down became a logistical need as the early conquest poured out of Arabia.

Did you delete the post quoted in the thread or moderators did?

 

[Rusty2]

That's a bit harsh but you are right. My next door neighbor, my father's classfellow, took asylum as a Qadiani in some european country in the 70s or 80s. He's a british citizen now

I just hate the pure hypocrisy of the people here.
Islam is just a blunt force weapon for them, they will use it to beat you down with it.
BUT, they will not blink an eye to violate Islamic tenants if it meant any sort of personal gains.