Reject terrorism and fight TTP (Video)

[KS]

Nice explanation..basically what I suspected..less manpower, ethnic cause hence limited appeal (no unlimited gulf funding and no appeal to hardcore al-qaeda fighters) and quality of leadership.

the Baloch Sardars are basically extremely territorial, jealously and totalitarians by nature they sold mines and people to British raj for as mush as 500 GBP when it suited them. and then picked up arms in the name of nationalism when the bribes to keep them cozy and jolly were not enough.

I heard Akbar Bugti donated an entire mine (not sure which mine) to the state for very less compensation once..i think pakistan did a grave mistake in killing him..

 

[KS]

an ill thought, hypocrite and racist comment
it were the Punjabi/ nonPashton Taliban who put the most resistance during the fall of Kabul when the NATO attacked. its mostly Punjabi taliban attacking the airbases as well.

maybe this cause was not worth putting such a heavy resistance..or what the US marines found as "tough resistance" was easy in the eyes of the indian army....ok what i said might sound racist but unfortunately they are directly based on the experience and opinion of some rashtriya rifles people who have served extensively in kashmir.

the order of resistance according to them is as follows

chechens/other hardcore fighters (few nd very far inbetween) > afghan mujaheddin vets in 90s (almost but not as good as chechens) > pathan tribesmen > punjabis > native kashmiris.

the afghans and chechens particularly never ever gave up a fight and they were also noted for concentrating on army while the later punjabis under Jaish-e-mohammed or LeT or harkat-ul-ansar were notorious for using civilian shields..

curiously, they have almost never come across sindhis or balochs fighting in kashmir..

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Nice explanation..basically what I suspected..less manpower, ethnic cause hence limited appeal (no unlimited gulf funding and no appeal to hardcore al-qaeda fighters) and quality of leadership.



I heard Akbar Bugti donated an entire mine (not sure which mine) to the state for very less compensation once..i think pakistan did a grave mistake in killing him..

on the contrary, he confiscated a mine and made the weaker Kulper Bughtis work as bonded labour, the army operation resulted in their freedom and Musharraf actually gave the mine to those people who were forced to work there for free.

Baloch Sardars are not known for such philanthropy, they protect their land as the part of their body. please forgive me but I didnt hear what you "heard" not saying you are wrong but some more information will be helpful

his death was unfortunate and also the death of our officers who went inside the cave to negotiate his surrender and died together when the cave was destroyed by an explosion. disregarding his crime against the fellow Bughtis of Kulper sub-clan, he became the head figure of terrorism and sabotage that included destruction of pipelines, electric pylons and generators, abduction and killing of contractors and specially targeting non-Baloch ethnic population.

going by your logic, the attack on Golden Temple and the deaths of Bhindranwale and Shabeg Singh were also a grave mistake and insult to the Sikhs of India (I already know you beg to disagree and you will either counter with similar incidents in Pakistan on how we did things or take the debate to something entirely different & irrelevant).

Akbar Bughti commanded a respectable position both in the government and had the Baloch administration under him while he was in the office or outside the office but that all was washed off and wasted when he decided that blowing up infrastructure and killing civilians was actually helpful to a certain Baloch cause he had in his mind.

we dont celebrate his death it was never an intention and we knew the repercussion but he didnt seem to care and for many countless victims of the racist and xenophobe attacks, the justice was served that day although at the huge cost of the losss of some fine officers.

now please,
shall we remain on the topic?

cheers

 

[CENTCOM]

We are not oblivious to the fact that we face a common threat on both sides of the border. Our government leaders continue to meet to address our shared concerns. With that said, we’ve always maintained a clear stance in regards to the ongoing peace negotiations. We reiterate what Richard G. Olson, U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan, said recently: “The end result of any process must be that the Taliban end violence, break ties with al Qaeda and accept Afghanistan’s Constitution. If this happens, we believe the Taliban can be a part of Afghanistan’s future.”

As you may know that ISAF Commander, Gen. John Allen and Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani met on Thursday. This is what Gen. John Allen had to say:

“Let me make sure I’m clear on this. Nothing is sure in a post-conflict society. But I think indicators, as far as I’m concerned, are that we’re on the right trajectory. What you have to understand, what people have to understand is some of these reforms take very long time. In an environment where human rights were crashed under multiple different invasions or civil wars or the Taliban, creating once again the kind of bias for human rights that we would all expect in the western society, just doesn’t come easily to this country. Nothing will happen in this country without security. And that security is being purchased every single day by the Afghan National Security forces”.

Ali Khan
DET, United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command

 

[Porus]

[MENTION=15272]
In My opinion Sipah Sahaba Pakistan is a defending organisation against tehreek e jafferria as history itself proves the actual motives of behind the creation of that organistaion.

Tehrik-e-Jafaria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Tehrik-e-Jafaria, Pakistan (TJP) (Urdu: تحریکِ جعفریہ‎, lit. Shia Movement ) also called Tehrik-e-Islami is a Shia political party in Pakistan. It was formed in 1979 with the name Tehrik-e-Nafaz-e-Fiqah-e-Jafaria (تحریکِ نفاذِ فقہ جعفریہ, lit. Shia-law implementation movement) as result of enforcement of controversial Islamic laws and politicization and discrimination against Shias in Pakistan Army and Civil Service.

Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP) is a Sunni Deobandi Pakistani organization, and a formerly registered Pakistani political party. Established in the early 1980s in Jhang by Maulana Haq Nawaz Jhangvi, its stated goal is to primarily to deter major Shiite influence in Pakistan in the wake of the Iranian Revolution

Sorry , Foji Bhai .... But you are again misleading us .

The only reason behind the creation of TNFJ was to defend the interests of the Jafri community of Pakistan. This party was never involved in any kind of terrorism against the state or against any other party, political or militant. Whereas the sole purpose behind the creation of ASSP was to terrorize the followers of Shia Islam. Khaled Ahmed writes in his book Sectarian War, "Jhangvi founded the SSP in 1985, assisted to some extent by the intelligence agencies enforcing Zia's plan to teach the Shias of Jhang a lesson because they had defied his Islamization campaign."

 

[haviZsultan]

@Irfan Baloch
Any Neutral person would not marginalized terrorism with only Deobands , As far as I know about Deobands , They always preach peace among followers and top of all militancey and exterimism is part of every sectarian group . Even Barelvi movement founder , Ahmad Raza Khan, and other Barelvi religious figures have issued fatwas of apostasy against the founders of the Deobandi, Shia Islam and the Ahmadiyya Community. Similarily Shia organistaion i.e Tehreek nifaz e jafferia , Tehreek e jafferia and Sipah Mohammad Pakistan are the militant organisation of Shia sect , and Its not a hidden truth that all of them have targeted common citizens of Pakistan even those who were not affiliated with any group were also been Targeted and killed .
I've no idea what stoping you from sharing rational and uncontroversial analysis , But terrorism was never started by Deobands and niether a way of Deoband and thats the part where most of us are clear .
Second Balochistan is also expanded inside Iran and most of Sunni Islamist militant Groups are also fighting their, Now don't say they are also Deobands because , Iranis just execute those who oppose their ideology and the culture of religious monarchy also came from iranian revelution . Even today we are dealing the outcome whole persian literature that have been exported in Pakistan .
In My opinion Sipah Sahaba Pakistan is a defending organisation against tehreek e jafferria as history itself proves the actual motives of behind the creation of that organistaion.

Tehrik-e-Jafaria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Tehrik-e-Jafaria, Pakistan (TJP) (Urdu: تحریکِ جعفریہ‎, lit. Shia Movement ) also called Tehrik-e-Islami is a Shia political party in Pakistan. It was formed in 1979 with the name Tehrik-e-Nafaz-e-Fiqah-e-Jafaria (تحریکِ نفاذِ فقہ جعفریہ, lit. Shia-law implementation movement) as result of enforcement of controversial Islamic laws and politicization and discrimination against Shias in Pakistan Army and Civil Service.

Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sipah-e-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP) is a Sunni Deobandi Pakistani organization, and a formerly registered Pakistani political party. Established in the early 1980s in Jhang by Maulana Haq Nawaz Jhangvi, its stated goal is to primarily to deter major Shiite influence in Pakistan in the wake of the Iranian Revolution

Sorry , Foji Bhai .... But you are again misleading us .

We hate shias, we hate the others ethnic group... you know when a person like me talks of Nationalism I sometimes wonder whether it is worthwhile at all.

The only reason behind the creation of TNFJ was to defend the interests of the Jafri community of Pakistan. This party was never involved in any kind of terrorism against the state or against any other party, political or militant. Whereas the sole purpose behind the creation of ASSP was to terrorize the followers of Shia Islam. Khaled Ahmed writes in his book Sectarian War, "Jhangvi founded the SSP in 1985, assisted to some extent by the intelligence agencies enforcing Zia's plan to teach the Shias of Jhang a lesson because they had defied his Islamization campaign."

Also look at the statistics. According to a report 86% of those killed in sectarian war are Shias. I am a Sunni and have the balls to admit this. In Pakistan the issue is we have become callous towards others and unfeeling towards them. We don't share the sorrow or pain of other communities.

For godsake look at this in Quetta:

From 2008 to 2012, 758 members of the Shia community were killed in 478 incidents.

Even Sipah E Mohammed only targets militants of SSP and LEJ not any civilians. Admitting and sympathizing can lead to unity in Pakistan. Hating can result in more hate

 

[FaujHistorian]

The only reason behind the creation of TNFJ was to defend the interests of the Jafri community of Pakistan. This party was never involved in any kind of terrorism against the state or against any other party, political or militant. Whereas the sole purpose behind the creation of ASSP was to terrorize the followers of Shia Islam. Khaled Ahmed writes in his book Sectarian War, "Jhangvi founded the SSP in 1985, assisted to some extent by the intelligence agencies enforcing Zia's plan to teach the Shias of Jhang a lesson because they had defied his Islamization campaign."

SSP - Wahabi militant outfit formed in 1985

Sipah-e-Muhammad Pakistan---- (SeMP Shia militant group formed immediately after 1979 Khomeni's power grab in Iran)


Now you guys should know who is the dirty egg and who is the f!lthy chicken and who f'd who.


peace.

 

[FaujHistorian]

We hate shias, we hate the others ethnic group... you know when a person like me talks of Nationalism I sometimes wonder whether it is worthwhile at all.



Also look at the statistics. According to a report 86% of those killed in sectarian war are Shias. I am a Sunni and have the balls to admit this. In Pakistan the issue is we have become callous towards others and unfeeling towards them. We don't share the sorrow or pain of other communities.

For godsake look at this in Quetta:

From 2008 to 2012, 758 members of the Shia community were killed in 478 incidents.

Even Sipah E Mohammed only targets militants of SSP and LEJ not any civilians. Admitting and sympathizing can lead to unity in Pakistan. Hating can result in more hate

I hear you my dear poster. I hear you.

Absolutely we the Sunni majority in Pakistan need get our Qibla in the right direction and away from Islamo-fascism (and in case of us the Urdu Speakers, away from ethno-fascism as well).


However I do not buy the logic that one militant group (SeMP) is Shia and it was so lovely lovely to target only other militants. This is not good. Khomeni cast the first stone by funding terror in Pakistan.

Many in Pak do not know that Quetta was the first city targeted by Khomeni goons when they fired from within the Imam bargah, and killed many policemen.

The rest as they is a sad and sorry history of our beautiful country.


peace

 

[K-Xeroid]

K-Xeroid
thanks for your post.. its good that you made an effort to show that all faiths of Islam are equally brutal and culprits.

unfortunately the comparions will be made when Afghan taliban, Sipah Sahabah and TTP are all found to be following Deoband school of thought which is very closest to Salafi or wahabi school of jurisprudence and is an ultra orthadox and extreme version of Sunni faith of Islam (forgive me for the lack of term)

whats more is that when Molana Fazl Rehman's JUI (a deobandi school of Islam organisation) is also found to be justifying the actions of Taliban then its really hard to defend and convince people that people of Deobandi Islam are all peace loving , tree planting love spreading charity giving people.

forget about Persian / Saudi proxy war in Pakistan during the 80s to 90s, we have gone beyond that now.

I dont care how Iran deals with the people who challenge its state
I also dont care (actually admire) how Saudis deal with the people who challenge the kingdom. their response is so absolute and so powerful that these cowards come to our country because we are easy to fool in the name of Islam.

TTP doesnt accept our way of life, simple, it wants entire Pakistan to turn into Sawat's Khuni chowk or Kabul football stadium where the executions were regular and done as a part of religion.

I dont care where an enemy of state of Pakistan is joining his hands while praying (above on chest or on the belly or open hands) whether he is Muslim with a mark on forehead due to hours of praying. if he is danger to the state then I want my army to neutralise him with full resolve just the way Hazrat Abu Bakr R.A did when people thought they could cease the chance and cause chaos when muslims were grieving the death of the Holy Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

your explanation and defence of Deobani faith is heartening its an uphill taks for all of us when we try to tell nonMuslims that what TTP, Lashker Jhangvi, Sipah Sahabah, Al qaeda etc do is not Islam and is rejected by Muslim majority but then you get a far more powerful and shocking videos by these so called Mullahs who record executions and recite Quranic verses then the viewer is left shell shocked.

be fair and tell me, would anyone spend time reading the peaceful Deoband philosophy in particular or Islam in general or actually just see a few minutes of very graphic footage of people being executed and blown up with along with Quranic verses and Taqbeers?

in the end please dont feel victimised if your faith is being scrutinised because I never felt that I had to explain to people that I dont belive in such brutal Islam.
and its a very weak defence to point out the sins of other faiths or religions instead of condemning people outright who have committed the atrocity. its not a sectarian debate about which sect is worse than the other it just happens that Taliban and its allies all follow the same faith which has similarities with Al Qaeda and the Kharjites during the time of Hazrat Ali r.a Caliphate.

these terrorists they have spilled the blood of the innocent like water and our army should deal with them like pests and shouldnt stop to check their faith or religion before opening fire because they have never discriminated while killing our fellow citizens

These same people also link Talibans is a creation of Pakistan army , even Our national intellegence and even CIA was direct involved in Operation against Soviat union along with Taliban , So Is that prove both of them khawarij ? When Armed forces had launched an operation on SWAT and Waziristan then the whole nation had supported Army , but today our armed forces are ultimatily losing its actual support , when in a similar way I try to defend army in front of others then they bring the memory of operations done in 90's (in Karachi), 80's and Balochistan operations . Why don't you understand ? you don't need to generalize the whole faith or any specific ethinic group as a terrorist group, Here Justice and maintaining equilbirium matters alot .

I'm not against If army neutralise those who challange writ of state with weapons , but it should have done against everyone whoever picks arm in hand and challanging our national security. but then again hundreds of controversial and unconstitutional acts are also done by our national institutions , when these same controversial authorities talks about maintaining writ of the state then it itself gives the chance of raising question on accountibility of these same institutions .

Politicians may increase your difficulties in such situations when they give mix sort of reactions , but again they are politicians , watever they say are not final words , current national contitutional assembly had stood behind you and thats what matters in end , but again when 40,000 people are being killed in whole war against Taliban since the war started and compare with the damage that had happened in other many conflicts that it creates a situation then public and civilian establishment have to re-think about their own priorities . So just don't expect the support everytime from public cuz they theirselves are feeling insecurity from our security institutions.

Its true that most of uneducated population are so emotional that before observing the parameters of any act they just attempt that mis-take , But just don't get away from the fact that these people are uneducated in all terms , but then the matter of Lal masjid come to mind where Mushi (The adventurer) who preferred military solution against them , In his similar regime on 12 may 2007 when hundred of militants have out on Rampage in Karachi why didn't he resolved it with military force? That itself raise the questions of credibility on our institutions . What they think , What is the real defination of terrorism for them ? Is it specific to few organisations. These all uncertainity creating frustration in public.

I were listening to Najam Sethi where he had given his analysis on TTP's negociation offer where he points that its a indirect message sended by establishment through them so we can surpass the the tense situation of upcoming election 2013 peacefully . Please share your opinion on it . and as far as blaming Pro-Taliban term are concerned then it have become our habit that whenever anyone comment anything against the military action in tribal belt then He\she have been also labelled as Talaban or perhaps Talaban khan. Better we have to be selective in this specific issue otherwise its going to hurt ourselves only.

@Porus I have no answer for someone who straightly denying the fact , Better to avoid unnecessary debate .

 

[haviZsultan]

We are not oblivious to the fact that we face a common threat on both sides of the border. Our government leaders continue to meet to address our shared concerns. With that said, we’ve always maintained a clear stance in regards to the ongoing peace negotiations. We reiterate what Richard G. Olson, U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan, said recently: “The end result of any process must be that the Taliban end violence, break ties with al Qaeda and accept Afghanistan’s Constitution. If this happens, we believe the Taliban can be a part of Afghanistan’s future.”

As you may know that ISAF Commander, Gen. John Allen and Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani met on Thursday. This is what Gen. John Allen had to say:

“Let me make sure I’m clear on this. Nothing is sure in a post-conflict society. But I think indicators, as far as I’m concerned, are that we’re on the right trajectory. What you have to understand, what people have to understand is some of these reforms take very long time. In an environment where human rights were crashed under multiple different invasions or civil wars or the Taliban, creating once again the kind of bias for human rights that we would all expect in the western society, just doesn’t come easily to this country. Nothing will happen in this country without security. And that security is being purchased every single day by the Afghan National Security forces”.

Ali Khan
DET, United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command

Uff... sar dard. Do you always have to pop up on every thread to say the exact same thing?

 

[haviZsultan]

I hear you my dear poster. I hear you.

Absolutely we the Sunni majority in Pakistan need get our Qibla in the right direction and away from Islamo-fascism (and in case of us the Urdu Speakers, away from ethno-fascism as well).

I have a habit of sympathizing with the weak. Born to a family calling itself Urdu-speaker with very heavy links to Lucknow I ended up calling myself Pashtun after seeing biases in Karachi. I cannot help but notice Shias are at the receiving end according to reports. I agree with you on both Islamo fascism and ethno fascism. The thing is Nationalism is and always was pure-it doesn't need the corrupting influence of ethnic and Islamist politics. We have made it so and left the mullahs in control. For example DPC called even Malik Ishaq. It is terrorist group.

We secularists/liberals are responsible partly for the situation by our refusal to recognize the challenges the nation faces and leaving affairs to the mullahs.

Btw I really understand the value Fauj of appointing people with vastly varying views on various topics to position of think tank by the way. Includes you. Makes the site rich. We might not agree on all counts but our views sure give a broad range of views on each single topic.

However I do not buy the logic that one militant group (SeMP) is Shia and it was so lovely lovely to target only other militants. This is not good. Khomeni cast the first stone by funding terror in Pakistan.

See I work a lot with statistics and base my views almost solely on them. Of the Sunnis targeted in Karachi on basis of sect 93% were either in ASWJ/SSP or LEJ. This is according to Khalil Peace Foundation. The other stats I already showed. 86% killed were shias and in Quetta:

From 2008 to 2012, 758 members of the Shia community were killed in 478 incidents.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...errorism-fight-ttp-video-8.html#ixzz2KL4rnZIC

I base my views on this.

Many in Pak do not know that Quetta was the first city targeted by Khomeni goons when they fired from within the Imam bargah, and killed many policemen.

Khomenei is hated even in his own country-why turn it into an Iran vs Pakistan or Shia vs Sunni thing.

The rest as they is a sad and sorry history of our beautiful country.

1980's-it all began with Zia's Islamicization I believe. We cannot ignore this. Ayatollahs Wahabs no one can do damage to us if it wasn't this cancer started from within by Zia. Shias sunnis would never fight. I will defend the Shias or any one other than my own ethnic group of birth and sect. It is my duty as their countryman. We should all do the same I believe but we cannot look beyond ethnicity and religion.

 

[Porus]

SSP - Wahabi militant outfit formed in 1985

Sipah-e-Muhammad Pakistan---- (SeMP Shia militant group formed immediately after 1979 Khomeni's power grab in Iran)


Now you guys should know who is the dirty egg and who is the f!lthy chicken and who f'd who.


peace.

Get your facts straight. SMP was created in the mid 90s in response to the state sponsored terrorism against the Jafria community of Pakistan.

 

[Jungibaaz]

What...you people will fight TTP ...It doesn't work like that...First you kick your people and then expect roses from them...PA knows that there is no result for aggression...You have to sit down and talk with TTP...They are our own people but a bit misguided...

I don't give sh*t where they came from or what glorious mission they say they're carrying out.
Bottom line is that they kill innocents and have waged war against Pakistan and against YOU!

I say kill the TTP scum where ever you find them.

 

[PakistaniNinja]

Usually I visit this forum just for the knowledge purpose. I have hardly posted or replied on any post since the registration on this forum. But today I was forced by the utter folishness and nonsense of many of the members who are chest thumbing on the false and vague pride of respective countries. Be it Pakistani or Indian. we have forgot that before any acquired identity we all are same humans and each life is equally valuable either indian or pakistani. If I talk about Pakistani he will be happy if something bad happens in India and same goes for Indian. Why can't we live peacefully together? If we compare kashmir and karachi, more people are being killed here than kashmir on daily basis. As for as our army is concered just look at the statistics on its performance it is disgrace and brough nothing but shame such as 90,000 prisioners, dogs of USA against Soviet union, creation of taliban, kargil operation, OBL operation apart from this they have topled almost every democratic government since the independence. our army is not the saviour of the nation, they are the destroyers of the nation but ofcourse they are the saviur of their own wealth. Pakistan army is a multibillionaire corporation which needs a country to feed upon. Pakistan is their feeding ground thats why they have to make sure it doen't go astray. they do not care about civilians. I think you all know what they call us " bloody civilians, we dont have manners to live in a society. It is they who are civilized capable of ruling us. they are the real man while civilians are "hijras". So inorder to eradicate terrorism we have to changee our mindset regarding India, kashmir and Pakistan army. I think we should let the kashmiris live their own lives rather sending people and spreading terror in their lives. we better think of our country's condition which is deteriorating day by day.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Even Sipah E Mohammed only targets militants of SSP and LEJ not any civilians. Admitting and sympathizing can lead to unity in Pakistan. Hating can result in more hate

sippah Mohammadi was successfully eliminated by the security agencies because the will was there to eradicate them. whereas the same will is lacking for LeJ and SSP their leaders who have multiple murders in their name walk free from the courts and have the witnesses of their crimes murdered even while in custody.

its the universal law of might is right. the weaker minorities will always be on the receiving end in the whole world and normally excuses will be made for the excesses by the majority. the shocking part is that same sectarian terrorists are now also spilling the blood of Sunni Muslims and hypocrites are deciding to blame Pakistan army for siding with America for such killing.