Reject terrorism and fight TTP (Video)

[Irfan Baloch]

@haviZsultan

I just want to ask one question, if you are against TTP, why do you support Jehadis against India ?

two different things

TTP has ideological difference with Pakistan, it doesnt accept the existence of Pakistan
it deosnt accept the lifestyle and working of a state of Pakistan or any other country for that matter

the Kashmiri militants on the other hand are not against the existence of Indian state itself but are against the occupation of Kashmir because they were denied the right of self determination which was given to the rest of the India before partition

why Pakistan supports them is the same reason because it sympathies with their cause and thus since partition two neighbors are at odds with each other due to their stated positions on Kashmir. mind you no such emotions are shown to other Indian states that were forcefully occupied by Idnian forces although their rulers announced to join Pakistan but thats another debate and I am sure you guys will have completely opposite view on the events.

the Kashmiri militancy started with purely the fight against the Indian forces but then as the time passed , the fanatics & radicals joined this war (after Afghan war) in the name of Jihad and started killing civilians as well and damaged the freedom struggle.

since the Pakistan's participation in WoT, they are more enemies of Paksitani state because they find it easier to find sympathizers within Pakistan and can operate much easily. the bulk of TTP now consists of those who have never crossed the border into Indian occupied Kashmir and have spawned since the Red Mosque operation and ousting of Taliban from Kabul, so the Indian taunt of Pakistan tasting its own medicine is bit off because these guys are new lot and specialist in sectarian terrorism mainly and due to the chaos donned the name of TTP and became Al Qaeda supporters which according to CIA has three stated objectives

1. End of Arabian / pro American monarchies through force
2. End of Israeli occupation of Palestinian land
3. killing of Shias where ever they are found

there is no much luck in the first two goals whereas the third one is successfully being achieved. so you see there is no mention of fighting the Indians. LeT is as effective as PLO was in the last days of Yassir Arafat. its a dinosaur and all you guys got is a name of Hafiz Saeed and you guys rage and rant over that person although there is no direct proof that this person had anything to do with Mombai terrorism, he has simply welcomed this infamy and is milking the attention causing more anguish for people

 

[KS]

@Irfan Baloch

How much ever you try to couch it in words - the bare truth is Kashmir is a religious supremacist struggle. Much the same as the TTP. Only in Kashmiri case it is Muslims vs Kaffir, in TTP case its better muslim vs less better muslim.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Irfan Baloch

How much ever you try to couch it in words - the bare truth is Kashmir is a religious supremacist struggle. Much the same as the TTP. Only in Kashmiri case it is Muslims vs Kaffir, in TTP case its better muslim vs less better muslim.

thanks KS I respect your view
I am not sugger coating or not being PC. our dispute regarding Kashmir is nothing compared to what TTP stands for
hell we even made brotherly relations with Bangladesh right after their breakup & independence and still have far better relations with you despite what you guys did back there in order to make that happen.

if it pleases you then call it religious supremacist struggle but that notion falls flat on its face because hindu muslim were identified as tow major nations and you and I both know how much religious Quaid e Azam & Alama Iqbal were in fact it were those religious supremacist of Jamat Islami & Jamat Deoband who called Pakistan napakistan and Jinnah a Kafir e Azam

I knew that my explanation would only result in the usual retort from your side but hey I respect you for that because you saw red mist on the word of Kashmir and didint understand the stark contrast of the method of operation of TTP and Kashmiri militants.

I am not going to list yet against points for 3 or 4 paragraphs on why I say TTP is utterly different thing from Kashmiri militancy because it wont help when mind is already made up to never accept what I have been saying.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

I know about Chechnya and Dagestan, that's the main reason of Russia's interest in the region. Most of times mostly Uzbeks are killed in drone attacks in Waziristan. Just don't know what are Uzbeks doing in FATA.



Who told you this

They are stateless people and outcasts.

 

[pk_baloch]

@Gigawatt

 

[Albatross]

@pk_baloch The real aim of all this TTP and BLA game is this....Maps which were made decades ago...

 

[KS]

if it pleases you then call it religious supremacist struggle but that notion falls flat on its face because hindu muslim were identified as tow major nations and you and I both know how much religious Quaid e Azam & Alama Iqbal were in fact it were those religious supremacist of Jamat Islami & Jamat Deoband who called Pakistan napakistan and Jinnah a Kafir e Azam

Jinnah said Muslims and hindu are two different nations and used Islam to create Pakistan.

Maududi said Islam abhors nationalism and wanted to recreate the Islamic rule in India.

So as far as I am concerned , they both are the same to me. They used or tried to use Islam for their ends. Ok granted, Jinnah was less harmful as he atleast said we are going away unlike Maududi who wanted to stay back and create troubles.


Now why I called Kashmir a religious supremacist struggle is because it assumes Kashmir is muslim in nature and a Hindu cannot live there or rule it. That is something we cannot agree with given that kashmir is one of the bases of Saivite Hinduism.

its an idealogical battle out there. The Hindu/Sikh army (in their minds) against the Muslims, occupying muslim lands. The fight was further fuelled by Pakistan using Islam as a means. Infact the fight was started when Mr.jinnah exhorted the tribals to liberate Kashmir in the name of Islam. Please dont try to deny it. It insults our collective intelligence.

Now TTP are using Islam against you.

The only thing I can see different between TTP and militants in Kashmir is that the militants from (Pak) Punjab and Kashmir are chicken to blow themselves up and put up a relatively less fight while the Pathans have no problem with it and putting up a heavy resistance.

 

[haviZsultan]

Why would Lal Masjid animate a bunch in the Mehsud tribe?, We hear these kinds of cover stories, that the TTP are a revenge outfit, revenge for what, what are a bunch in the Mehsud tribe taking revenge for - Wasn't the TTP, known as TTM before - Tehrieek e Taliban e Mehsud? Why has the Pak Fauj such a poor record against the TTP?

Maseeds initially did not make the bulk of the TTP in 2007. This happened by 2009 actually that the bulk was made up of Maseed fighers. They consisted of foreign fighters mostly till then and initially Pakistan army tried to use this as leverage.

Do look at this. From report tribal economy and impact of militancy:

Asia’s biggest, remained in Taliban control for three months. The Taliban sold the mined emerald
through bidding. Two-thirds of the proceeds went to the miners, and the rest to the Taliban. According
to a media report, Taliban earned US $50,000 a month from the mine.

My point for revealing this is it translates somewhere-they are making a huge amount of money. This is where it goes. (PNCA report):

A militant recruit can earn between PKR
15,000 and 20,000 ($176 to $235) per month, which is nearly double the
remuneration for unskilled work available in Peshawar.

This is unemployment in FATA:

50%+

This is education:

22%-4% for women.

So a lot of the fighters in Waziristan are paid. They bought a lot of Mahsuds with these payments. The point is there was a vacuum already which the Taliban made full use of. That has allowed them to gain a major advantage. The government simply is non-existant in FATA and the maliks are often fighting each other. Tribal internecine warfare is also common. In other words FATA is a mess today and it is because of our policies and failure to develop it at par with other areas. There are a total of only about 30 colleges in FATA in total and no universities. Schools are too few for the population. 19% have been evicted from homes due to crisis. Maseeds are not responsible for making the bulk of TTP and its top leaders.

I believe FATA needs more understanding by our people. We have thought of them as barbarians for too long. Even @KRAIT is noticing.

 

[KS]

@Irfan Baloch

on a unrelated note why is that the Baloch insurgency so weak and flailing while the TTP are much more sucessful in spite of the full force of Pakistan army against them?

I means both have a weapon carrying and fighting at the drop of a hat tradition
I believe the baloch too have access to good quantities of weapons and ammo
The border with afghanistan in balochistan too is porous (if they need sanctuary)
the terrain too I believe is more or less same with rugged mountains.

Or is that there is a media blackout in balochistan and we actually dont know what is going on there while the TTP are more media savvy and are too good in PR dept as compared to the baloch rebels ?

Or is the Islamic cause of TTP much more appealing to the tribesmen than the somewhat non-religious ethnic cause of baloch ?

Or it all boils down to the quality of the fighters and leadership ?

Or the ultimate - funding ?

 

[FaujHistorian]

@Irfan Baloch

on a unrelated note why is that the Baloch insurgency so weak and flailing while the TTP are much more sucessful in spite of the full force of Pakistan army against them?

I means both have a weapon carrying and fighting at the drop of a hat tradition
I believe the baloch too have access to good quantities of weapons and ammo
The border with afghanistan in balochistan too is porous (if they need sanctuary)
the terrain too I believe is more or less same with rugged mountains.

Or is that there is a media blackout in balochistan and we actually dont know what is going on there while the TTP are more media savvy and are too good in PR dept as compared to the baloch rebels ?

Or is the Islamic cause of TTP much more appealing to the tribesmen than the somewhat non-religious ethnic cause of baloch ?

Or it all boils down to the quality of the fighters and leadership ?

Or the ultimate - funding ?

Simple reasons.


It is hard to run a leftist militant organization in Pakistan. Average Pakistani will not openly relate to a leftist cause.

Whereas you can find lots of willing recruits for Islamists militant organization. Average Pakistani can relate to (and thus sympathize) with Islamist cause(s).



And yes.

Under pressure from Pakistan, UAE has clamped down on money flows to leftist militants in Balochistan. And the leftist leaders now cannot take shelter in Afghanistan either. Americans have kicked them out.


However the same UAE/Gulf states are having hard time in stopping the Islamist charities to send money out to the hotspots around the world.


peace

 

[KS]

^^ Is there is a possiblity of TTP and Baloch rebels linking up anytime in the future to put up a combined front ?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Jinnah said Muslims and hindu are two different nations and used Islam to create Pakistan.

Maududi said Islam abhors nationalism and wanted to recreate the Islamic rule in India.

So as far as I am concerned , they both are the same to me. They used or tried to use Islam for their ends. Ok granted, Jinnah was less harmful as he atleast said we are going away unlike Maududi who wanted to stay back and create troubles.


Now why I called Kashmir a religious supremacist struggle is because it assumes Kashmir is muslim in nature and a Hindu cannot live there or rule it. That is something we cannot agree with given that kashmir is one of the bases of Saivite Hinduism.

its an idealogical battle out there. The Hindu/Sikh army (in their minds) against the Muslims, occupying muslim lands. The fight was further fuelled by Pakistan using Islam as a means. Infact the fight was started when Mr.jinnah exhorted the tribals to liberate Kashmir in the name of Islam. Please dont try to deny it. It insults our collective intelligence.

Now TTP are using Islam against you.

The only thing I can see different between TTP and militants in Kashmir is that the militants from (Pak) Punjab and Kashmir are chicken to blow themselves up and put up a relatively less fight while the Pathans have no problem with it and putting up a heavy resistance.

KS what you say is "chalta maaal" 5th grade elementary school history so often used and abused by Indians and Pakistani governments for their short term goals.


You gotta get out of these low level paisa akhbar (tabloids) discussions. It doesn't look good for us to repeat sarkari stuff over and over again. Aren't you sick and tired of this old sqabbling?

Or you enjoy it as if it is sheer khurma?


As I pointed out in an earlier post, Kashmir problem is for Kashmiris. If the problem is not there, Pakistan cannot do squat about it.

For many Kashmiris, Kashmir is an issue based on constitution. And I am talking about Indian constitution that grants totally special and fundamentally different status to Kashmir as compared to any other state in India.

That once you grant a special status, you don't be an Indian giver and try to rob the population by trickery and thuggery from their political ambitions. you don't post 100s of 1000s of troops to subjugate a large population.

It was Indian government that shamelessly turned a Kashmiri nationalist issue (for all Kashmiris Hindus and Muslims) into a pure Muslim issue.

Divide and rule was the game.

And you my dear come on P'DF and repeat all the those stories again and again.

No wonder Kashmir issue will remain unresolved for a long time.


I hope you understand it now.

Both Indian and Pakistani intellectuals are responsible for letting the constitutional issue of Kashmir turn into a Jih@di issue. We let it fester for such a long time, we remained inactive for such a long time that a relatively simple constitutional issue got hijacked by the forces of evil, death, murder, and destruction.


peace

^^ Is there is a possiblity of TTP and Baloch rebels linking up anytime in the future to put up a combined front ?

Is that what Indians are hoping
and dreaming?
and having orgasms about? that different anti-Pakistan militant organizations will join together and do India's job?

OK I assume you are genuinely interested in Paksitan's welfare and not pushing for more bloodshed. I hope!


The answer is no!

One is leftist ethnic organization

And the other touts global Islamo-fascism.

Both have different aims, different funders, and different setup.



peace

 

[KS]

>>It was Indian government that shamelessly turned a Kashmiri nationalist issue (for all Kashmiris Hindus and Muslims) into a pure Muslim issue.

True it was the Indian govt that secretly sent some Bihari and UP babus across the LoC to convert to Islam and then they came back to chase out the entire Kashmiri Pandit and Sikhs communities from the valley in the name of jihad to establish what they claimed nizam-e-mustafa.

I'd like to point out some of the slogans that were famous in those days among the Kasmiri sunni muslims. Those days meaning in the late 1980s and early 1990s when the jehad was t its peak.

Hamein kya chahiye nizam-e-mustafa, Yahan kya chalega, nizam-e-mustafa, nizam-e-mustafa

asi gachi pakistan, bata tav ros, batanev san (we want pakistan, with kashmiri women and without their men folk)

aye kafiro, aye zalimo, kashmir chod do

Allah-o-Akbar, Musalmano jago Kafiro bhago, jehad aa raha hai.

Islam hamara maksad hai Kuran hamara dastur hai Jehad hamara rasta hai.

The mosques in the first week of January in 1990 were incessantly broadcasting over the loudspeakers that the pandits either convert to Islam or leave the valley. Kashmir main rahna hai, Allah-ho-Akbar Kahna hoga.

The January 4 edition of Aftab carried out a front page threat of Hizbul Mujaheddin asking for secession of Kashmir from India and asking the hindus to leave the kashmir valley unless they accepted islam. The January 19 editions of Al-safa carried out the same threats in the front page.

===

If Kashmir was a secular issue why is that hindu-Sikh-buddhist-shia majority areas of Jammu-Ladakh and Kargil so vehemently pro-India ?

I dont know what you pakistanis out there believe about Kashmir, but Kashmir is as Islamist a cause as Islamist can be.

 

[FaujHistorian]

>....
I'd like to point out some of the slogans that were famous in those days among the Kasmiri sunni muslims. Those days meaning in the late 1980s and early 1990s when the jehad was t its peak.

.

As I said, we can order lots of tea and talk about chalta maal 5th grade sarkari school level history discussion all night and all day as long as tea remains hot.

It is unfortunate to see Indian intellectuals viewing Kashmir as if the problem started in 1980s.

I can't say more.

No tea so far

 

[KS]

Is that what Indians are hoping
and dreaming?
and having orgasms about? that different anti-Pakistan militant organizations will join together and do India's job?

You guys totally over-estimate the whole Indian role in the mess on your western frontiers.

The answer is no!

One is leftist ethnic organization

And the other touts global Islamo-fascism.

Both have different aims, different funders, and different setup.

Oh okay. Why I asked was in India the maoists who are a fringe left militants have tie-ups with the NE militants who are combination of ethnicity and christian militancy. They combined because of the need to face up to the common enemy - India. In the case of Baloch rebels and TTP the common enemy is the state of Pakistan. hence my question.

As I said, we can order lots of tea and talk about chalta maal 5th grade sarkari school level history discussion all night and all day as long as tea remains hot.

What I said has more credence than your assertion that religion has nothing to do with Kashmir problem and Pakistan doing nothing to aggravate it by redirecting the fresh-from-victory afghan mujaheddin into kashmir.

But fair enough, I get the cue - you have your sarkari history and we allegedly have ours. Who shouts higher gets to form the narrative and we can shout louder than pakistan.