Regarding Gwadar Port?

[karakoram]

i know Gawadr has its many plus points for Pakistani .. But it also have some negative points
many will dis-agree to me ,but this is my own perception .. which can be wrong.. ;
BTW some of those negative points CAN BE that :

1) Our own Industries and Factories will nearly Collapse as all we know that chinese Products are very cheap (cost vise) as compare to pakisani products .. so the Chinese Containers will do a great effort in this case for chinese.. (as in case of NATO supply to Afghanistan through Pakistan ,, u can even buy u.s army Hk416 here if u are at right place and with right person)) .. so if you can buy a product with Chinese price let say 50 rupees , then who will be Mad enough to buy same Pakistani product for let say 80 rupees ??

2) they will not pay anything for using our roads,, as they are the one who are constructing these roads ..

3) They are giving us billion and billions of dollars of money as at the name of 'SOFT LONE'' and at the end they will demand it when it reaches to something like $80-90 billion and we will not be able to give it back.. At that time they will start influencing us as like America...
( Chinese are pure businessmen and they know how to Control things )

Are you sure you are a Pakistani and not a false flagger ?

 

[PDF]

i know Gawadr has its many plus points for Pakistani .. But it also have some negative points
many will dis-agree to me ,but this is my own perception .. which can be wrong.. ;
BTW some of those negative points CAN BE that :

1) Our own Industries and Factories will nearly Collapse as all we know that chinese Products are very cheap (cost vise) as compare to pakisani products .. so the Chinese Containers will do a great effort in this case for chinese.. (as in case of NATO supply to Afghanistan through Pakistan ,, u can even buy u.s army Hk416 here if u are at right place and with right person)) .. so if you can buy a product with Chinese price let say 50 rupees , then who will be Mad enough to buy same Pakistani product for let say 80 rupees ??

2) they will not pay anything for using our roads,, as they are the one who are constructing these roads ..

3) They are giving us billion and billions of dollars of money as at the name of 'SOFT LONE'' and at the end they will demand it when it reaches to something like $80-90 billion and we will not be able to give it back.. At that time they will start influencing us as like America...
( Chinese are pure businessmen and they know how to Control things )

We don't have any other choice. This is the best we can get right now.

 

[Fracker]

Msc degree holder Cost of Shipping Via sea is always multiple times less than via Land. This is the reason why most of international trade is conducted vis sea. China would find it cheaper to transport a container from Dubai to any of its city, then the transportation cost that container would incur "Within Pakistan" itself.

Someone should have checked freight cost before chest-thumping.



Oil gas from where to where?

If you look at the map properly, China borders Gas and Oil rich Central Asia and has three mega pipelines running from Central Asia to China, including world's longest pipeline.

Of anything that China needs, the least thing that China needs in XinXiang is Energy. It could get ample amount of it just from across the border , some 100's of Km away.

Why would it bother bringing oil and Gas through Gwadar? This when apart from sky high transport cost due to distance, it would also have to pay for Break-of-Bulk at Gwadar.

If it want Energy for XinXiang, it could get it easily from CAR.

If it want Energy for its Eastern Seaboard, it could easily get it from CAR, failing which transport via SHips would be more economical than any pipeline fromGwadar.

I think its time for you to go back to college @anonymus I am copying your post so plz don't mind

Irony, a illiterate like you who is giving me reference of Sea to Sea cost to prove land cost higher

Irony, a illiterate like you who can't read the basics which i posted for transportation telling me to redo the college.

The guy who didn't read about the whole agreement and speaking on the forum it's expensive. It's done deal

And, right now China Imports oil/Gas from ME not from Central Asia.

You have to look into complete picture before even speaking about possibilities. Here below is complete picture for dummies..

I know you will still failed to understand, because of lacking of basic literacy, yet i wanted everyone to know whats going on, just in case if someone has any doubts on the project.

Plz explain how are we gonna loose ME market to China or anyptyer country

Dont have time to feed you guys for every point. Internet is full of such articles.

http://fride.org/download/PB_173_China_economic_engagement_in_MENA.pdf
http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~hfoad/ChinaAfrica_v2.pdf

Another Market which India can loss is Human Resource, Especially Malwaris

 

[Saquibk]

This @anonymus replied to one another delusional pakistani in another thread read it carefully

I think that delusion runs rampant among Pakistanis, and bad quality of education is an epidemic.I would demolish this pathetic post of yours assertion by assertion

This assertion betrays complete lack of understanding of Economics, and the difference between cost od Sea Transport vs Surface transport.

This is something about which I have posted earlier which was deleted when this website crashed.

Distance between Shanghai and Kashghar = 5121 Km

5121 Km - Distance from Shanghai to Kashgar

Distance between Kashghar and Gwadar = 2747 Km

2747 Km - Distance from Kashgar to Gwadar


Average Trucking cost per Ton per Km in China = 5 cents.

http://www.worldbank.org/transport/transportresults/regions/eap/eap-china-output.pdf

Average Trucking cost per Ton per Km in Pakistan = 1.8 cents.

https://www.iisd.org/gsi/sites/default/files/ffs_india_irade_trucking.pdf

These cost are of 2002 and would have become 7 cents for China and 3 cents for Pakistan, just by taking inflation into account.

This is the most conservative calculation as I am not taking into account Hazard premium that nature of Terrain imposes on Pakistan (Karakoram Highway is rated world's fourth most dangerous highwayWorld's 10 dangerous roads | CNN Travel ) and Hazard premium that China has to pay for transporting good through Takla Makan Desert , Kulum Shan mountains range, and Altai Shan mountain range.

But still let us calculate cost oftransporting a Tonn of good fromShanghai to Gwadar.

Cost incurred in Chinese territory = 0.07 X 5121 = $358.47

Cost incurred in Pakistani territory = 0.03 X 2747 = $82.41

So total cost from Shanghai to Gwadar for a tonn of goods= $440.88

Now let destination port be Dubai.

Cost of Transporting Dubai to Shanghai = $625 per TEU

http://www.simic.net.cn/news_list.php?lan=en&id=368&flag=cnports&pname=shanghai&page=10

Since standard 1 TEU= 21,600 Kg : Cost of Transporting 1 Ton via sea from Dubai to Shanghai = $28.93

Twenty-foot equivalent unit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Similarly cost from Karachi to Dubai for 1 TEU = $125 (rate for Gwadar are not available as port is not operational)

BusinessDubai.com - Bizneeds

Cost of Transporting 1 Ton from Karachi to Dubai = $5.787


Total cost of Shipping a Ton from Shanghai to Dubai via Gwadar = $446.67

Total cost of Shipping directly from Dubai to Shangahi = $28.93 which is 16 times less than that of Transporting via Gwadar.

Heck Total cost of Transport from Gwadar to Chinese border is more than what would be required for Transport from Dubai to Shanghai.


And this is not all. You beloved corridor passed through Khunjareb Pass which remain open only from May 1 to December 31.

Karakoram Highway

Only a fool would believe that it is a main route to anywhere. This is just a backup route for China in case Malacca strait is blocked.

Only a fool would assume that Gawadar route will be used to transport goods all the way to Shanghai. As you have mentioned, distance from Kashgar to Shanghai is twice as much than distance from Gawadar to Kashgar. Gawadar will be used as main trading route for western China, because it will be the least cost route as per your above calculations. Agreed that west China has much smaller industrial base than east China. But that is due to long distance from port. Once west China gets short access to a port, it will undergo a similar boom like east China. And this is what China's plan is to make western China the future engine of growth because east china is reaching saturation. Fast economic growth in west China will help reduce militancy in the region as well.

So Gawadar will help China in terms of boosting its economic growth , improving its internal security and providing external strategic advantage.

Agreed that west China only accounts for a small part of China's economy. But Pakistan does not need whole of China's trade pass through it, nor Pakistan can handle it. If 10% of China's trade passes through Pakistan , that would be more than enough.

 

[karakoram]

View attachment 222513

Only if u can read Urdu and English

It make me more doubtful no sane person will ever show his atm card/id card to open forum. :-D:-D remove this pic asap

 

[Sugarcane]

Msc degree holder Cost of Shipping Via sea is always multiple times less than via Land. This is the reason why most of international trade is conducted vis sea. China would find it cheaper to transport a container from Dubai to any of its city, then the transportation cost that container would incur "Within Pakistan" itself.

Someone should have checked freight cost before chest-thumping.



Oil gas from where to where?

If you look at the map properly, China borders Gas and Oil rich Central Asia and has three mega pipelines running from Central Asia to China, including world's longest pipeline.

Of anything that China needs, the least thing that China needs in XinXiang is Energy. It could get ample amount of it just from across the border , some 100's of Km away.

Why would it bother bringing oil and Gas through Gwadar? This when apart from sky high transport cost due to distance, it would also have to pay for Break-of-Bulk at Gwadar.

If it want Energy for XinXiang, it could get it easily from CAR.

If it want Energy for its Eastern Seaboard, it could easily get it from CAR, failing which transport via SHips would be more economical than any pipeline fromGwadar.

I think its time for you to go back to college @anonymus I am copying your post so plz don't mind

You mean Chinese are dumber than some teeny internet Indians that they don't know calculation and are investing billions of dollars just for a backup route in case of blocked? Even today if there is blockade China can use Pakistan's route for emergency needs.

China is focusing to develop it's North western part and Gawadar is much closer port than Chinese ports for that part (And i don't know which idiot came up with assumption that China will be using Truck within China for transportation when they have rails), and China is also looking to relocate some of her industries to Gawadar port because cost of production is increasing in China.

 

[RealNapster]

Are you sure you are a Pakistani and not a false flagger ?

It make me more doubtful no sane person will ever show his atm card/id card to open forum. :-D:-D remove this pic asap

it's just to teach the idiots to Criticize but positively.. Allah na karay but take my words .. you and we will suffer from this project and Chinese influence at such scale that u even can't imagine ..

 

[karakoram]

it's just to teach the idiots to Criticize but positively.. Allah na karay but take my words .. you and we will suffer from this project and Chinese influence at such scale that u even can't imagine ..

Mate its a famous quote by military personal that no risk no gain so we have to take risk. and 46 billion deal is not soft loans but investment by chinese companies backed by chinese banks

 

[RealNapster]

Mate its a famous quote by military personal that no risk no gain so we have to take risk. and 46 billion deal is not soft loans but investment by chinese companies backed by chinese banks

future is not much far... let see

 

[nik141991]

Irony, a illiterate like you who is giving me reference of Sea to Sea cost to prove land cost higher
View attachment 222509
Irony, a illiterate like you who can't read the basics which i posted for transportation telling me to redo the college.

The guy who didn't read about the whole agreement and speaking on the forum it's expensive. It's done deal


View attachment 222512
And, right now China Imports oil/Gas from ME not from Central Asia.

You have to look into complete picture before even speaking about possibilities. Here below is complete picture for dummies..

I know you will still failed to understand, because of lacking of basic literacy, yet i wanted everyone to know whats going on, just in case if someone has any doubts on the project.

I think you seriously need some good education I will again repeat oil & gas from where to where from pakistan to eastern China where majority of population lies & the main economy center of China if yes than you are one of the most delusional person I have ever come across, do you know the distance between gawdar & mainland China & the cost involve in transporting goods & other thing, I have already mentioned the cost involve in previous post so dont need to repeat it. transporting from land will always be higher compared to sea & if it from gawadar to Xinjiang then you are again living in delusion as Xinjiang is already producing & buying oil & natural gas from central Asia which is much cheaper & easy to transport it to mainland China & one more thing to note China has the biggest shale reserve & look at the map carefully to know where most of it lies

Then again China has made no commitment on building pipeline from gawadar to Xinjiang & even if they do it will only serve as backup in case someone block malcca straight, your economic corridor wont have any impact on mainland China other than Xinjiang to some extent

 

[karakoram]

future is not much far... let see

Be optimistic

 

[Fracker]

I think you seriously need some good education I will again repeat oil & gas from where to where from pakistan to eastern China where majority of population lies & the main economy center of China if yes than you are one of the most delusional person I have ever come across, do you know the distance between gawdar & mainland China & the cost involve in transporting goods & other thing, I have already mentioned the cost involve in previous post so dont need to repeat it. transporting from land will always be higher compared to sea & if it from gawadar to Xinjiang then you are again living in delusion as Xinjiang is already producing & buying oil & natural gas from central Asia which is much cheaper & easy to transport it to mainland China & one more thing to note China has the biggest shale reserve & look at the map carefully to know where most of it lies
View attachment 222514
Then again China has made no commitment on building pipeline from gawadar to Xinjiang & even if they do it will only serve as backup in case someone block malcca straight, your economic corridor wont have any impact on mainland China other than Xinjiang to some extent

The people like you have no analytic skills at all. Who think if China has pipeline then they will still use Shipments.through longer and riskier route. I posted proofs from where they are importing mmost oil, I posted proofs about pipeline plans for whole china. Yet you are beating the drum of pathetic excuse no they are throwing 46 billion $ for nothing. Building roads, rails, pipelines, towns for just fun. No i can't even laugh on your education. It's disgusting

@Topic
Even 10% of china trade passes through Pakistan it will help Pakistan alot in growing

 

[Sugarcane]

it's just to teach the idiots to Criticize but positively.. Allah na karay but take my words .. you and we will suffer from this project and Chinese influence at such scale that u even can't imagine ..

There are two options

1) Shove the geographic advantage of Pakistan in our backside
2) Welcome investment and give much needed boost to economy and catchup

It's good that we have decided to go with 2nd option.

 

[nik141991]

Only a fool would assume that Gawadar route will be used to transport goods all the way to Shanghai. As you have mentioned, distance from Kashgar to Shanghai is twice as much than distance from Gawadar to Kashgar. Gawadar will be used as main trading route for western China, because it will be the least cost route as per your above calculations. Agreed that west China has much smaller industrial base than east China. But that is due to long distance from port. Once west China gets short access to a port, it will undergo a similar boom like east China. And this is what China's plan is to make western China the future engine of growth because east china is reaching saturation. Fast economic growth in west China will help reduce militancy in the region as well.

So Gawadar will help China in terms of boosting its economic growth , improving its internal security and providing external strategic advantage.

Agreed that west China only accounts for a small part of China's economy. But Pakistan does not need whole of China's trade pass through it, nor Pakistan can handle it. If 10% of China's trade passes through Pakistan , that would be more than enough.

Western China lol , dou know the size of western china, your corridor won't have any impact on western China

Courtesy to anonymous

Your corridor is not airdropping in Western Qinghai so that it would have same effect on all of Western China; it is joining China in North-West corner of China ie Western corner of XinXiang (no 10). The only provinces that it could affect are no 10 (XinXiang) and its neighbours no9 (Tibet) ,no 8 (Qinghai) , no 7 (Gansu) in Western China, and no 4 (Inner Mongolia) in Northern China.

I have already counted all these provinces.And I am being generous here. XinXiang itself is so large that your corridor has no chance of affecting even its neighbours.

I think this problem that is shown by many poster in this thread arise from the fact they could not fathom that some provinces (mostly in Western China) are many times larger than even Pakistan itself. XinXiang is 2.1 times larger than Pakistan, Tibet is 1.54 times larger, Inner Mongolia 1.48 times larger, Qinghai equal to Pakistan, and Gansu half of Pakistan. You people seriously think that your highway would be used by people two province separated from Kashghar!!!!

Probably you does not understand that Eastern part of Western China is further away from Pakistan that even Europe!

For example capital of Shaanxi (Taiyuan) is as far away from Islamabad by air (3559 Km) as Ankara (3600 Km)

I am yet to understand this optimism of serving Eastern part of Western China.

let's do some analysis. I am calculating Islamabad so that you could get a grasp over distance as Ankara is 4400 Km away from Islamabad by road. and All distance henceforth are by road.


No 3 (Shaanxi), Capital (Taiyuan).

Distance of capital from Islamabad = 4904.3 Km

Distance of capital from nearest Chinese seaport (Tianjin)=943 Km

Distance of capital from Gwadar = 6644 Km


No 6 (Ningxia), Capital (Yinchuan)

Distance of capital from Islamabad = 4337 Km

Distance of capital from nearest Chinese seaport (Tianjin)= 1200 Km

Distance of capital from Gwadar = 6077 Km

No 1 (Chongquing) , No capital

Distance of Chongquibg from Islamabad = 5069 Km

Distance of Chongquing from nearest Chinese seaport = 0 Km. After construction of Three Gorges Dam, barring largest cargo Ship, Ocean going ships could sail upto Chongquing.

But still distance between Chongquing and Shanghai is 1689 Km

Distance of Chongquing from Gwadar = 6843 Km

no 4 (Guzihou) , capital (gulyang)

Distance of capital from Islamabad = 5459 Km

Distance of capital from nearest Chinese seaport (Beihai) = 796 Km

Distance of capital from Gwadar = 7199 Km

No 5 (Yunnan) , capital (Kuming)


Distance of capital from Islamabad = 5859 Km

Distance of capital from nearest Chinese seaport (Beihai) = 1024 Km

Distance of capital from Gwadar = 7635 Km


No 2 (Sichuan) , capital (Chengdu)


Distance of capital from Islamabad = 4976 Km

Distance of capital from nearest Chinese seaport (Chongquing) = 326 Km and (Shanghai) = 1968 Km

Distance of capital from Gwadar = 6716 Km


All these Western provinces that you dream Gwadar would serve are farther away from Gwadar than Western Europe is from Pakistan by Road. Distance between Islamabad and Berlin by road is 6353 Km , and of Paris is 7300 Km; nearly of the order of distance of Gwadar from any of Eastern provinces of Western China.

 

[Sugarcane]

I think you seriously need some good education I will again repeat oil & gas from where to where from pakistan to eastern China where majority of population lies & the main economy center of China if yes than you are one of the most delusional person I have ever come across, do you know the distance between gawdar & mainland China & the cost involve in transporting goods & other thing, I have already mentioned the cost involve in previous post so dont need to repeat it. transporting from land will always be higher compared to sea & if it from gawadar to Xinjiang then you are again living in delusion as Xinjiang is already producing & buying oil & natural gas from central Asia which is much cheaper & easy to transport it to mainland China & one more thing to note China has the biggest shale reserve & look at the map carefully to know where most of it lies
View attachment 222514
Then again China has made no commitment on building pipeline from gawadar to Xinjiang & even if they do it will only serve as backup in case someone block malcca straight, your economic corridor wont have any impact on mainland China other than Xinjiang to some extent

Abay dhakan, Oil and gas don't need trucks to travel in pipeline. When Indian can dream of laying pipeline in sea than why can't China lay pipeline from Gawadar to upwards?