Reducing the size, importance of pre islamic indian empires?

[Mentee]

Nobody cares about those irrelevant empires lol.

Islamic empires were the most powerful and influential Indian empires. Mughals being the most powerful of the pan-Indian empire in Medieval times.

After Mughals, it was British---then Republic era (India-Pak).

So which one of them is largely responsible for wiping the Buddhists off the map of sub continent?

 

[kongn]

So which one of them is largely responsible for wiping the Buddhists off the map of sub continent?

Mihirkula and his white huns and their destruction of gandhara.Followed by turkic invasions.The word for idolbreaker is but-shikan('but' comes from budh).Buddhism in parts of pakistan,afghanistan and eastern bengal ended by islam.Nalanda,vikramashila universities were burned by turks under bhaktiyar khilji.This combined with resurgence of hinduism under shankaracharya and the rajput rulers,and internal corruption of buddhism from mahayana to vajrayana led to collapse.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Mihirkula and his white huns and their destruction of gandhara.Followed by turkic invasions.The word for idolbreaker is but-shikan('but' comes from budh).Buddhism in parts of pakistan,afghanistan and eastern bengal ended by islam.Nalanda,vikramashila universities were burned by turks under bhaktiyar khilji.This combined with resurgence of hinduism under shankaracharya and the rajput rulers,and internal corruption of buddhism from mahayana to vajrayana led to collapse.

Yep. Of course.

So which one of them is largely responsible for wiping the Buddhists off the map of sub continent?

Your sense of irony is lost on these folks.

 

[W.11]

eastern bengal ended by islam

buddhism most probably already ended in eastern bengal after the fall of the palas and occupation of the cholas. Buddhists were hunted down and driven to nepal.

regards

Nalanda,vikramashila universities were burned by turks under bhaktiyar khilji

Nalanda was not burnt by Bakhtiyar khilji and this is some dumb colonal era interpretation of finding a layer of ash while excavating one of its mansteries, it could be any thing and could have well happened before the turks''burned it down''

a major evidence is nalanda kept functioning well into 14th century and one of its monks went to china and got ordained there.

The only monastery which was burnt down by him was called odantapuri monastery and that too was not done for sake of ravaging it but it was mistaken for a fort because indian architecture usually applied bastions as architectural features during that period.

regards

regards

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

Gurjara Pratiharas defended against expansion of Islamic states in today's North India for nearly 300 year. and in effect stopped fall of Delhi for 500 years till Ghori defeated Prithiviraj chouhan. A great achievement of sorts.

This 500 years hiatus from conquest of Sindh in 714AD to fall of Delhi Rajput kingdom in 1192 AD, is the reason why Today's India is 80% Hindu as most fervent Islamic proselytizer zeal was lost in these 500 years.

The Gurjara Pratiharas certainly played a role in delaying the Islamization of current day Pakistan and Bangladesh and parts of present day India.

But not everything depends on military. The area around the Gangetic Plains is still Hindu even when Muslims ruled from Delhi. The most important thing for a religion to survive is how strong the people are actually affected by religion.

People of present day Pakistan have been parts of Indian based empires like Mauryas, Guptas. They have been under parts of Sassanid empires and they also came under the influence of the Indo Greeks. My hypothesis is that the people in present day Pakistan were definitely Hindus and Buddhists but they weren't strong Hindus and Buddhists like some other parts of India as they had constantly come under the influence of different religions. Also, they bore the brunt of most invasions and thought that converting to another religion just like the myriad of previous different religions wouldn't have mattered much.

The Bhakti movement which originated in South India and later spread to other parts of India too played a critical role in stopping the slow Islamization of India even after the later rulers.

So, basically it's more on the society than on whether they actually win or lose a war.

 

[W.11]

Tamraparni is a border/neighbour kingdom ''mentioned by ashoka'' himself (recorded and inscribved hence there s no doubt on it), interestingly its at the very southern tip of tamil nadu, which hugs the indian ocean. Other tamilian kingdoms mentioned are the cholas, pandyas. Tamilian kingdoms such as Satyaputra and Tamraparni are not well known.

European/western scholars refuse to show that maurya empire practically owned entire indian subcontinent (plus or minus few territories), despite when even the ashokan edicts provide and strengthen evidence that mauryas held entire ''Indian subcontinent''.

The extent of maurya empire, nanda and also gupta empire doesnt go down politically well with the british colonial/western scholarship. The intent is to show pre islamic indian empres were not bigger than islamic ones, cannot compete with the british empire, india was a british colonial concept and not earlier, loads of other political garbage.

Another Kalinga inscription of King Kharavela mentions capturing these kingdoms which shows defeating Tamilians had become a habit back then and these were not as formidible as propagated by some tamilian nationalists.

Although there s still no evidence that Nandas captured tamil nadu lands, but mysorean inscriptions mention them, but their mention in tamilian literature hints exactly that

regards

 

[itsanufy]

I believe in the concept of an "Indic" civilization similar to a Western European civilization or Arab civilization. Yes, these territories have always had a lot in common since the last few millennia.

However, modern India is a British creation.

If they want slightly more authentic Indic civilization (pre-British era), perhaps the Hindutvadi fanatics should move to countries like Suriname, Fiji, Guyana, or Mauritius. Perhaps speak Bhojpuri or Awadhi instead of standard Hindi.

Modern India does not resemble Ashoka, Chandragupta, Raja Bhoj or Maratha empires in any way. Why feel pride for them? I see no reason: all of them were tyrants and despots. I see them as uncivilized barbarians. Yes, that includes my ancestors as well but that is the whole point of moving ahead in life. You should not remain stuck like cement.

The British, like it or not, brought a fair amount of civilization to these parts. No more chucking widows to funeral pyres of their husbands for starters.

Unfortunately, Indians are stuck in a feudal mindset.

Indian History has two ruler given the title as the great, one of them is there in the list.

 

[W.11]

Akanānūru 251:

Messengers have been sent, and he has been
told that your shoulders have drooped, your
hair and bright forehead have lost luster,
your tight jewels have fallen off your wasting
body and your sallow spots have faded.
Even if he were offered Nanthan’s wealth
he will not stay there to receive it if he
heard of your sorrow, my friend!

He has gone on the path where a noble
elephant with white tusks, that resides in
a grove dense with teak near endless, wide,
empty spaces, with no protection, arrogant,
gored a bright colored tiger that escaped
from it and caused a large depression,
where the Mauryan newcomers came with
their army with horses and fine chariots,
cut into the mountains with splendid,
white waterfalls and created paths for their
chariot wheels to roll smoothly, to attack the
king of Mōkūr who refused to submit to the
Kōsars with victory flags on their well-made
chariots that ride as fast as the wind,
who celebrated with sweet drums under their
ancient, old banyan tree in the precious, huge
common ground [assembly hall]…[5]

Akanānūru 281:

[...] he went on the path,
where the Vadukars who have great
enmity tie the shed feathers of delicate
peacocks with swaying walks, to their
strong bows using long straps on the
edges, shoot rapidly fitting the beauty
of the tied fibers, creating sounds, and
lead the Mauryas who desire to conquer
the South, cutting into the rocks to let their
chariot wheels with bright spokes roll.[6]

Puranānūru 175:

[…] You are like the huge, round sun when it
settled behind the mountain cleft
cut as a path to the world by the Mauryas
with sky-high umbrellas, chariots with
tall banners and wheels with sturdy spokes.[7]

Akanānūru 69:

[…] The Mauryas have carved into the
sky-touching mountains and created paths for
their chariots with iron wheels to roll smoothly […][8]

Mōkūr was a local Tamil chiefdom which could have been located somewhere south in the Pandyan country since in the Maturaikkāñci, which celebrates a Pandya king called Nedunjeliyan (the second?) and his capital Madurai, a reference is made to a Pandyan general called Paḻaiyaṉ of Mōkūr who is said to have received the Kōsars at his court. Interestingly, there’s even a place called Thirumohoor (tiru ‘Sri’ + mōkūr) in the Madurai district. The Kōsar are described as inhabiting the Tulu country (Akanānūru 15) and invading a certain Nannan’s territory which includes the Tulu and Konkan regions (Natrinai 391), lying along the western coast north of the Chera country. The Vaḍukar (‘northerners’), who apparently served as the vanguards of the Mauryas, is the traditional Tamil demonym of Telugus (Andhras).