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Realistic worst care scenarios for Indian Muslims

:D Do you know what that even means?

Comparing your 'faith' with ours is a minor insult. You do understand that, right?

A piece of advice, which you are welcome to fling back in my face; I won't mind.

Don't be so easily offended. We are too quick to see offence, to take offence and to want to avenge offence.
 
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The lady is a Sanghi.

Why is this promotion kosher here?

How do you get that?


@kongn is a Sanghi, if I am not wrong.

You are enormously wrong. He is a keen scholar of military matters, does his homework, and is clear and well-organised in his thoughts. He has not demonstrated any affiliation to the Sangh Parivar any time, and I look for his posts even if he doesn't tag me.

But the best thing is to ask him direct.

@kongn
 
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But the best thing is to ask him direct.

@kongn
I think his post made it clear, he's a "civilizational Hindu" but anti-Hindutva nonetheless.
The next 10 years are going to be hard for indian muslims of the middle and lower strata,(upper strata is tiny and irrelevant because they are largely irreligious and shielded by money and influence)because of the incompetence of indian political opposition.Modi will stay until 2029 at least.The opposition has no plan,organization or leader.They must focus on rebuilding either by purging the congress or building an alternative.One party rule is bad for democracy,whether your pro-modi or anti-modi.

Still must be remembered only half of the population voted for modi.What sangh has done successfully with modi as brand face is radicalize the indian middle class largely using social media .Lower classes are still unaffected outside of the hindi heartland.The success of the sangh can be put down to several factors.

Fanatical devotion and genuine patriotism of many of its members who work their whole lives in remote villages without any expectation of money or reward.
Single minded objective over 7 decades to build grassroots network.
Hapless surrender of nationalism and cultural nativism to the sangh-bjp by the opposition.They have moved too far away from the roots of indic civilization,and become too anglicized in their approach.

Festering pakistan problem at the border.Unresolved issue of kashmir.
Terror attacks on indian soil.Activities of organizations like Indian mujahideen and PFI.To be seen in the global context and atmosphere of islamophobia and war on terror.
Increased understanding and knowledge of history due to social media access,and the undoing of the nehruvian era written 'beautiful dream' ganga-yamuna tehzeeb constructed history,encouraged by BJP propaganda and resources.The stories of somnath,hampi,ayodhya,nalanda were buried for a reason.
Unresolved emotional issues like ayodhya,kashi,mathura.
Paranoia about muslim demographic increase,love jihad(some true cases ,but majority otherwise).Unnecessary appeasement by particularly regional parties of minorities without actual development particularly in UP,Bihar,West bengal and kerala to win elections by block voting.

Combined with this is the general decrease in prestige and power of the muslim world which is continuing,as well as the rise of india's global stature.Fine line between pride and chauvinism,especially for young people.

The opposition has to fulfill certain conditions-
Needs to have strong regional leaders and main leader(non-dynast) from amongst them.
Needs to be nationalistic.(nationalism is back as a political force worldwide and youth will reject them otherwise)
Dedicated grassroots network and strong social media presence.
Keep the message strictly on the economy.Avoid religious conversation and attempted polarization.
Must not surrender the control of temples to the sangh,and allow it to shape and define hinduism
.Opposition needs to be 'hindu',but not anti- muslim.Token temple visits before elections are meaningless.
Needs zero tolerance for lynchers as well political islamists.Islam as a political project is finished in india,the islamic faith will stay.Those who dream of converting or partitioning india should really just leave while they still can.Its over.
Needs to address some other genuine concerns - christian evangelical fraud conversion mafia in south india and tribal areas and not run from the issue.The BJP's increasing presence in south is largely a reaction to missionary conversion attempts.
Needs to create mixed faith discussion groups of leaders in each district,such that any local interfaith problem can be dealt with amicably through dialogue without the issue snowballing.Communication leads to understanding,breaks down ghettos.One of the biggest surprises is how little hindus and muslims understand each other or know of each others philosophy despite living together for a 1000 years or so. For many hindus islam is terrorism, polygamy and inbreeding,worship of immoral medieval arabs,beef,adoption of foreign culture and dress,glorification of invaders and temple destruction,making noises from mosques,prostrating 5 times a day with backside in the air towards arab desert, and becoming a 'katwa'.For large numbers of muslims hinduism is animal worship,cow urine drinking, idolatry, pagan polytheism and caste system.There is no depth in mutual understanding.
Finally muslim leaders in new opposition must not be boxed in or labelled as 'muslim' leaders.Rather as normal party members who must be fielded from both muslim and non muslim zones.Not doing so is going back to ghettoization and block voting.Also needs to engage professional muslim educated personnel ,not the mullahs.
Needs to make tactical alliances smartly.

RSS wants a hindu rashtra.The new opposition must understand that India is not a hindu rashtra.But without hinduism there is no india.
 
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Something wrong somewhere. Let's see.

I was reacting to your comment to @dharmi; that bit about atheism making a mess of the argument was nothing to do with the Hindutva-vadis (if I have got them correct). In fact, @dharmi isn't a Hindutva-vadi. We may have had the exact position about the location of Hindutva-vadi within philosophical narratives; it is a borrowed argument, and is very poorly argued and presented.

However, equating that simple thought with the essential content of Hindu thought is a mistake.

That is what I was saying to you. Also, @dharmi is not a Congressi sickular, he is a middle-of-the-road dilettante who flirts with the right wing. And just for the record, I loathe the Congress.

I'm going back to read our exchange of messages, just to be sure that I got the whole thing right, but only after I've had a sleep, done my morning routine and stuff. If I was mistaken, be sure that I will get back to you.

I don't know what you're talking about here but if that guy is centre-right to you, then there really is no point in constructive discussion with Hindus.
 
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I don't know what you're talking about here but if that guy is centre-right to you, then there really is no point in constructive discussion with Hindus.

I believe he is not a convinced, nor a convicted Hindutva-vadi. Let's ask him.

@dharmi

Where are you coming from? I did warn you that your trying to be clever would earn you a permanent bad reputation.
 
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Where are you coming from? I did warn you that your trying to be clever would earn you a permanent bad reputation.
What's the use of reputation if you are not allowed to say what you feel right? Criticizing someone doesn't suddenly make anyone a Hindutvavadi.
 
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I believe he is not a convinced, nor a convicted Hindutva-vadi. Let's ask him.

@dharmi

Where are you coming from? I did warn you that your trying to be clever would earn you a permanent bad reputation.

This is a community where Hindus frequently lie about things like their nationality and background to "win" an argument in 2 page thread. I don't think I should trust whatever he says.
 
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What's the use of reputation if you are not allowed to say what you feel right? Criticizing someone doesn't suddenly make anyone a Hindutvavadi.

Nobody differentiates between a Hindutva-vadi and any other kind of Indian in terms of freedom of saying what they feel is right. Nobody will stop anybody from posting.

It's what happens after the post that's important. Hindutva-vadi members are seen as impossible to deal with, and will meet with a shower of abuse, or of what-aboutery, or a stony silence. It all depends on what you are on the forum for.

@dharmi has been far too committed to individual conversational relations with dyed-in-the-wool Hindutva-vadis. Soon he will get less and less response, and more and more hostility in those reduced responses. That does not get him anywhere, unless publishing a point of view to people who are not willing to listen is vitally important, for some reason or the other.

You, too , have to decide at some time.

This is a community where Hindus frequently lie about things like their nationality and background to "win" an argument in 2 page thread. I don't think I should trust whatever he says.

You should at least hear what he says. Thereafter it is for you to judge if he was lying or not.
 
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You, too , have to decide at some time.
I don't restrict myself to whether I'm Hindutvavadi, Islamist, Left, Right, Centre, etc. I use my brain that God has given me and try to arrive at a conclusion based on my own insights. These terms are vague groupings just like religions. Two Hindutvavadi or two Islamists, will for instance, never agree on many things. You can see that among Islamists who debate all day on what is right/wrong according to Islam and you can see the same with too orthodox Hindus who would argue on what is right according to the scriptures although thankfully ultra-orthodox Hindus are lesser in percentage.
 
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The ottoman-portugese wars were actually drawn out.The turks and arabs lost because their galleys couldnt fight the portugese gun heavy sailing ships in the indian ocean.First came the portugese,then the dutch and then the anglo-french.

Turks had limited interest in the Indian Ocean. Arabs were mostly traders in that area. That is why the British, Dutch, Portuguese had a free hand in dominating the seas in that part of the world.

It wasn't until the 19th century when the British and French started dominating the Ottomans in the Mediterranean. Rest is history.
 
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