Reactive armor does not help Ukrainian tanks

[Penguin]

I wonder why the Russian army is replacing its T-80's with T-72.

Funding for new equipment has greatly risen in recent years, and the Russian defence industry continues to develop new weapons systems for the Ground Forces. However, for the Ground Forces, while overall funding has dramatically increased, this does not guarantee that large numbers of new systems will enter service. In the case of vehicles, examination of the actual number of vehicles planned to be bought yearly (about 200 MBTs and IFVs/APCs) means that for a force of about thirty divisions, each with about 300–400 MBTs and IFVs, it might take around 30 years to re-equip all formations.

Russian Ground Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

RUSSIA's tanks

T-72
Active: ≈2,255
Reserve: 8,000
155 upgraded to T-72B2. 300 upgraded to T-72B3.
Numerous T-72s brought back into service following withdrawal of Russian T-80s

T-80
Active/Reserve: 4,500
Some T-80s are to be withdrawn from active service in 2015

T-90
743
Production halted and funds transferred for T-99 project.

List of equipment of the Russian Ground Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Due to expensive maintenance Russian Army plans to retire all T-80 series tanks by 2015.

T-80U Main Battle Tank | Military-Today.com

Used in:< 4500 in reserve or storage. 12.2013 All T-80 were withdrawn from service. (MoD)
...
When fitted with explosive reactive armor [ERA] the T-80 is virtually immune over its frontal arc to penetration from all current NATO ATGMs which rely on a HEAT warhead to penetrate armor. On the turret of the T-80, the panels are joined to form a shallow chevron pointing. Explosive reactive armor is also fitted to the forward part of the turret roof to provide protection against top attack weapons. The explosive reactive armor does not provide any added protection against APDS or APFSDS attack.

T-80 MBT | Russian Military Analysis

The Russian Defense Ministry will remove from service all T-80 tanks
Category: Army

Chief of Armored Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation Alexander Shevchenko, the radio station "Echo of Moscow", said the withdrawal from service of the T-80.​

During a conversation on the topic: "The development of armored vehicles of the Armed Forces in modern terms," Alexander Shevchenko said that 2015 will remain in service with the Russian Federation only tanks T-72 and T-90.

In October 2011, Anatoly Serdyukov, who was then Minister of Defense of Russia, said that the military decided to abandon further modernization of the T-80 and the purchase of new tanks T-90 because of their high cost, but instead to make the modernization of outdated T-72 to a level "nineties".

Then defense minister praised the modernization of each machine to the level of T-90 in 38 million rubles. It was believed that due to the modernization of the military department will be able to save money while receiving combat vehicles that are not inferior to modern designs.

At the same time last year has already started replacing parts in T-80 tanks T-72B-3. Upgraded T-72B-3 shall be replaced in the army outdated T-80. The first batch of refurbished machines received 138th Motorized Rifle Brigade in the village of Kamenka Leningrad region.

In the future, all the T-80 tanks will be replaced by the upgraded T-72 tanks and the latest "Armata".

Министерство обороны РФ снимет с вооружения все танки Т-80

The old t-64 .. Certainly no Bulat..

Yes, and ?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Russian Ground Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

RUSSIA's tanks



List of equipment of the Russian Ground Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


T-80U Main Battle Tank | Military-Today.com


T-80 MBT | Russian Military Analysis


Министерство обороны РФ снимет с вооружения все танки Т-80


Yes, and ?

Hence killing the "news" itself.

 

[Etilla]

Russian Ground Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

RUSSIA's tanks



List of equipment of the Russian Ground Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


T-80U Main Battle Tank | Military-Today.com


T-80 MBT | Russian Military Analysis


Министерство обороны РФ снимет с вооружения все танки Т-80

T-80 was used instead of T-72 in Chechnya.

The result was brutal for Russia. Tank performance was bad and totally ill-suited for urban combat

http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14200&page=169

The maintenance bit seems to be wiki fiction.

T-80 on paper is more advanced and overall better than T-72. But one battle and T-80 proved to be a failure.

Wonder why Ukraine uses T-80 and T-84

 

[Penguin]

the destroyed tanks aren't T-80?

T-84 and T-80 are only tanks left for Ukraine to fight with? The situation does seem somewhat confusing

Tthe destroyed are T-72 and T-64. Apparently Ukraine tanks are primarily T-64 and T-80/84

brutal for Russia. Tank performance was bad and

T-80 was used instead of T-72 in Chechnya.

The result was brutal for Russia. Tank performance was bad and totally ill-suited for urban combat

http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14200&page=169

The maintenance bit seems to be wiki fiction.

T-80 on paper is more advanced and overall better than T-72. But one battle and T-80 proved to be a failure.

Wonder why Ukraine uses T-80 and T-84

Sure , ignore the russian source article, why don't you ... I'sure if you put T-72s in an urban scenario with multiple RPGs being fired at known weak areas (top, side, rear), they will fail just as miserable.

Hence killing the "news" itself.

Only if the Ukraine army no longer uses unmodernized T-64s.... i.e. only Bulats (which I'm not so sure is the case)

 

[Penguin]

Ukrainian T-72

Ukrainian Forces Destroyed Russian Tank T-72
Ukrainian Forces Destroyed Russian Tank T-72 - Ukraine Investigation


This would seem correct.

Ukrainian Ground Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hundreds of Abandoned Tanks Photographed at Secret Ukrainian Site - autoevolution

Both sides may have access to similarly equiped T-72.
Ukraine's abandoned tank graveyard could be needed if tensions with Russia escalate | Mail Online

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Tthe destroyed are T-72 and T-64. Apparently Ukraine tanks are primarily T-64 and T-80/84




Sure , ignore the russian source article, why don't you ... I'sure if you put T-72s in an urban scenario with multiple RPGs being fired at known weak areas (top, side, rear), they will fail just as miserable.


Only if the Ukraine army no longer uses unmodernized T-64s.... i.e. only Bulats (which I'm not so sure is the case)

The era on these tanks doesn't look like the Ukranian duplet etx but Russian K series .. That's what in sayin nothing else.

 

[Penguin]

A Ukrainian soldier stands near a destroyed tank of pro-Russian separatists just outside the eastern Ukrainian town of Slaviansk
on the road from Sloviansk to Kramatorsk

 

[Informant]

These look like they were hit by a barrage of rockets/arti shells.

 

[mike2000]

I thought Ukraine had fairly decent weapons.

 

[Superboy]

tandem HEAT kills reactive armor

 

[C130]

reactive armor is overrated IMO. it make sense for Russian tanks because they are designed small to begin with and easily cook off and have their turrets fly off so you need something, but tandem warheads pretty much made it oboselete

but Ukraine did develop a new type of reactive armor stacked on top of another called "Duplet" so I wonder how that fairs

 

[Dazzler]

T-80 and T-84 are obsolete tanks especially for urban warfare. No wonder Russia is replacing T-80 with T-72.

post of the day...

on a serious note, notice all the tanks show no sign of hull or turret penetration, ERA is intact, this gives rise to two possibilities.

1. Artillery strike

2. IED hit

Lastly, none of the above tanks are fitted with knife or dulpet ERAs, rather, Kontakt-1

 

[C130]

post of the day...

on a serious note, notice all the tanks show no sign of hull or turret penetration, ERA is intact, this gives rise to two possibilities.

1. Artillery strike

2. IED hit

Lastly, none of the above tanks are fitted with knife or dulpet ERAs, rather, Kontakt-1

I think it was a Grad attack

each grad has like 40 odd sub munitions that can kill armor just like our M77 DPICM so you can imagine if one of these hit the top of a Russian tank it's going to cook off real good.

 

[Dazzler]

T-80 was used instead of T-72 in Chechnya.

The result was brutal for Russia. Tank performance was bad and totally ill-suited for urban combat

http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14200&page=169

The maintenance bit seems to be wiki fiction.

T-80 on paper is more advanced and overall better than T-72. But one battle and T-80 proved to be a failure.

Wonder why Ukraine uses T-80 and T-84

the only verison that suffered in Chechnya was the T-80BV with Kontakt-1 ERA. IT was never designed to fight in an urban combat scenario, there were many Red Army veterans in Chechnya who knew the weakzones of T-80BV, even T-72s that participated in the operation. Overall, blaming the T-80 being the culprit not fair, there are written accounts of soldiers from both sides, none of them blame the tank itself, but the design philosophy it was meant to follow was to face the enemy in the battlefield, not in urban combat.

Russians have not discarded T-80s at all, in fact, with the induction of latest t-72B3, they are also inducting the upgraded versions of T-80, named the T-80UE-1 and the T-80UA. Both are more advanced than B3 in general features.

T-80BV after modernization known as T-80UE-1, mated with T-80UD turret on T-80BV chassis (Russian version)

T-80UA

major systems include..

new fire control

new optics and ballistic computer

upgraded ammunition with modified autoloader

newly developed composite armour modules with kontakt 5 or relikt ERA

more powerful engine and transmission.

The fact that T-80U with upgrades and modifications, is still considered as the most advanced mbt in Russian Army.

 

[Penguin]

Russians have not discarded T-80s at all, in fact, with the induction of latest t-72B3, they are also inducting the upgraded versions of T-80, named the T-80UE-1 and the T-80UA. Both are more advanced than B3 in general features.

Yup, that is what the Russian article of which I posted a translation stated.