Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[American Eagle]

Incorrect. He is not a State Dept Employee but a consultant attached to Islamabad Embassy so he comes under one of No.2 of the following:

Thanks for your opinion, but you are mistaken.

The US Government has for years moved toward contracting out various career job tasks, as in this case, security for the US Department of State. This is a process and decision internal to the US State Dept. not subject to reinterpretation by anyone else anywhere.

When the US State Dept. sends a contracted out employee, and employee Mr. Davis is, into a foreign assignment on a US Diplomatic Passport with a recognized Paksitani Visa added there on, there is no debate. Mr. Davis has a Dipomatic Passport and has Diplomatic Immunity. Period. End of story.

 

[logic]

Killing armed thieves has nothing to do with nothing. Crooks whose stolen wealth as often as not goes into funding local terrorists and terorism.

stop maligning the DEAD

Matter is in court of Law you do not have the right to call them terrorist.

 

[Thomas]

Excuse me?

Did you claim you are Ex-Spec Ops and you don't even know Immediate Action Drills for Countering Vehicle Ambush?

YouTube - Vehicle Counterambush Drill - Windshield Shooting

don't believe he claimed that he was, if so please link it.........


here is link that charts diplomatic immunity. and it is still up in the air what his position was. it changes depending on the source.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/150531.pdf

 

[pakistanamerican]

the brits smuggled in and built an entire army under the guise of a trading company .. the east india company only to use that to overthrow the local rulers when the opertunity presented itself and put the sub-continent under the brtish boot for one hundered years , it would be supremely foolish on our part to let history repeat itself.

Pakistan made more progress when it was ruled by the Brits then it is now.

 

[pakistanamerican]

Which can go both ways..
Was this guy really trained to tell the situation on the ground apart?
when to take action.. or was he trigger happy from the start?
The only way to acertain that if for a proper investigation to follow.
being proper gentlemen.. never being robbers doesnt mean that you cant decide one day to shoot an American because of your beliefs.
at the same time, it doesnt mean that if the American felt he was being targeted because of seeing a gun.. he has the right to go chuck norris on anybody..
However, the driver of the Toyota 4by is definitely guilty of 1st degree murder and rash driving. And should be locked up.. and the embassy should be ahead on that. It is not excusable.

The death of the pedestrian was an accident, simply an accident, do you expect every time some Pakistani in the USA kills some one in an accident in the USA that it be considered a crime.

 

[American Eagle]

stop maligning the DEAD

Matter is in court of Law you do not have the right to call them terrorist.

I agree no one should malign the honored dead. Thus I remain baffled at the under response the day before in Lahore to the terrorist suicide bomber who killed 35 innocent Paksitani Muslim men, women, and children, serious wounding scores more, around 180 wounded.

Just look at the under response of condolings of the many Pakistan innocent Muslim dead killed as in murdered by a Paksitani terrorist suicide bomber vs. the drivel on this Thread dealing with two criminals who shot up Mr. Davis windshield and would have killed him had he not defended himself. I am sure the family of dead robbers regret their deaths but that does not change the fact they were illiegally carrying guns and were thieves trying to do a second robbery in the same single day in Lahore, first robbery had already been carried out by these same two robbers against a Pakistani gentleman there in Lahore, exact same day.

 

[pakdefender]

The guy is in police remand and is being interogated , the Judge gave the remand on Friday for 6 days so coming week he'll be back in court and the proceedings will be done against him , till now there is no proof that he can claim diplomatic imunity and diplomatic imunity is for minor things like a traffic voilation or a car scraping another car etc not for homicide.

 

[logic]

I agree no one should malign the honored dead.

I agree.

Thus I remain baffled at the under response the day before in Lahore to the terrorist suicide bomber who killed 35 innocent Paksitani Muslim men, women, and children, serious wounding scores more, around 180 wounded.

You are mixing two different events.

Just look at the under response of condolings of the many Pakistan innocent Muslim dead killed as in murdered by a Paksitani terrorist suicide bomber vs. the drivel on this Thread dealing with two criminals who shot up Mr. Davis windshield and would have killed him had he not defended himself. I am sure the family of dead robbers regret their deaths but that does not change the fact they were illiegally carrying guns and were thieves trying to do a second robbery in the same single day in Lahore, first robbery had already been carried out by these same two robbers against a Pakistani gentleman there in Lahore, exact same day.

This is not about American or Pakistani or Muslim or Christian its about a guy involved in an incident and is under custody of law.

 

[Thomas]

The guy is in police remand and is being interogated , the Judge gave the remand on Friday for 6 days so coming week he'll be back in court and the proceedings will be done against him , till now there is no proof that he can claim diplomatic imunity and diplomatic imunity is for minor things like a traffic voilation or a car scraping another car etc not for homicide.

only if his country waives it. generally in times past when people have been killed by diplomats such as in accidents it has been waived, But not always.

Injury and death

The Romanian chargé d'affaires in Singapore, Silviu Ionescu, was allegedly behind a drunk-driving hit-and-run accident in December 2009 that resulted in the death of a 30 year old man and seriously injured two others. He left Singapore for Romania three days after the accident. The Romanian foreign ministry suspended Ionescu from his post. A coroner's inquiry in Singapore, which included testimony by the Romanian embassy driver, concluded with the coroner holding Ionescu solely responsible for the accident. An Interpol Red Notice was subsequently issued for his arrest and possible extradition notwithstanding the fact that Romania had not waived his diplomatic immunity and had commenced criminal proceedings against him in Romania. The Singapore government argued that by reason of Article 39(2) of the Vienna Convention, Ionescu was no longer protected by diplomatic immunity.

The deputy ambassador of the Republic of Georgia to the United States, Gueorgui Makharadze, caused an accident in January 1997 that injured four people and killed a sixteen-year-old girl. He was found to have a blood-alcohol level of 0.15%, but was released from custody because he was a diplomat. The U.S. government asked the Georgian government to waive his immunity, which they did and Makharadze was tried and convicted of manslaughter by the U.S. and sentenced to seven to twenty-one years in prison. However after serving three years of his sentence, he was returned to his home country where he spent two more years in jail before being paroled.

An American Marine serving his embassy in Bucharest, Romania, collided with a taxi and killed the popular Romanian musician Teo Peter on December 3, 2004. Christopher Van Goethem, allegedly drunk, did not obey a traffic signal to stop, which resulted in the collision of his Ford Expedition with the taxi the rock star was travelling in. Van Goethem's blood alcohol content was estimated at 0.09% from a breathalyser test, but he refused to give a blood sample for further testing and left for Germany before charges could be filed in Romania. The Romanian government requested the American government lift his immunity, which it has refused to do. In a court-martial, he was acquitted of manslaughter and adultery but was convicted of obstruction of justice and making false statements.

A Russian diplomat accredited to Ottawa, Canada, drove his car into two pedestrians on a quiet residential street in January 2001, killing one and seriously injuring the other. Andrei Knyazev had previously been stopped by Ottawa police on two separate occasions on suspicion of impaired driving. The Canadian government requested that Russia waive the diplomat's immunity, although this request was refused. Knyazev was subsequently prosecuted in Russia for involuntary manslaughter, and sentenced to four years in prison. His appeal of the sentence was denied and he served time in a penal colony.

An American diplomat, Consul General Douglas Kent, stationed in Vladivostok, Russia, was involved in a car accident on October 27, 1998, that left a young man, Alexander Kashin, crippled. Kent was not prosecuted in a U.S. court. Under the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations of 1963, diplomatic immunity does not apply to civil actions relating to vehicular accidents. However, on 10 August 2006, a U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that since he was using his own vehicle for consular purposes, Kent may not be sued civilly.

The Burmese ambassador in Sri Lanka in 1979 shot his wife as she got out of the car after seeing a player in a night-club band of whom she was enamoured. As recalled by Gerald Hensley, then Vice-Dean of the Diplomatic Corps in Sri Lanka; Hensley was based in Singapore and accredited from New Zealand as High Commissioner to Sri Lanka as well: The next morning the neighbours in Cinnamon Gardens (Colombo) were surprised to see the ambassador stacking wood on the back lawn and, connoisseurs of cremation, quickly grasped that he was building a pyre. When the police were called the ambassador opened the metal front gates just enough to say that there was no trouble and to remind them that his house was Burmese territory. Then he went back to work. The houses around his long back garden were now alive with fascinated spectators as he emerged with the body of his wife, placed it on the pyre and set it alight. He was well connected at home but after an awkward interval he was recalled.

 

[American Eagle]

The US Ambassador to Pakistan knows up from down as head of all official Americans inside Paksitan currently.

The US Ambassador knows full well that Mr. Davis has diplomatic protection status; cannot be jailed under local, national laws, but has rights and privileges that do not avoid investigation but which control the circumstances of where and how Mr. Davis is handled while the attack against and on Mr. Davis by two thieves is fully and completely investigated.

Please remember no two cities inside Pakistan have the same gun laws on their books. These are parochial things, and we all know from our first hand years inside Pakistan what an armed camp it is for so many Pakistanis who choose to and of necessity these days need to arm and protect themselves.

Self defense from already known armed crooks/thieves who show hostile, death causing actions against you...shots through your windshield fired into Mr. Davis venhcile...are prima facia evidence he was violently attacked.

 

[American Eagle]

If the rear windshield was completely shattered by firing as you claim, how come the front windshield didn't shatter with the impact of the bullets, it shows more than five bullet holes in it, yet it only cracked and didn't shatter. Are you going to claim that Honda Motors uses different quality glass material for the front and rear windshields?

Yes, in fact the windshield is shatter proof safety glass whereas the rear window glass is a different, lower quality of glass. Yep, that is a fact, not just in the case of Honda but also for most all cars.

 

[logic]

Self defense from already known armed crooks/thieves who show hostile, death causing actions against you...shots through your windshield fired into Mr. Davis venhcile...are prima facia evidence he was violently attacked.

You have any proof?

Mr Davis is more likely be a terrorist or a rogue agent than the innocent dead guys. Maligning the dead with out due court proceeding is immoral.

 

[Mansanpk2009]

Any wrong move in the matter of Davis by our Government would trigger the revolution that is knocking our doors

This is the Anthem "Tarana" of a new revolution in Pakistan

صبا چلی ہے نۓ انقلاب کی لوگو

چلو بڑھاؤ قدم اب نہیں رکنا لوگو



بڑے بڑے تھے جو بت آج لڑکھڑانے لگے

جنھیں تھا ناز حکومت وہ ڈگمگانے لگے

وہ جن کی صبح و شام تھی محو بےخبری

وہ آج خوف سے نظروں کو کیوں بچانے لگے



صبا چلی ہے نۓ انقلاب کی لوگو

چلو بڑھاؤ قدم اب نہیں رکنا لوگو



کئی زردار اور شرافت کے پتلے بھی ہیں

کہ جن پیروں کے نیچے عوام کچلے بھی ہیں

کیے ہیں جھوٹ سے بھرپور ہم سے وعدے کئی

کہ جن سے سادہ لوح عوام بہت پھسلے بھی ہیں



صبا چلی ہے نۓ انقلاب کی لوگو

چلو بڑھاؤ قدم اب نہیں رکنا لوگو



مگر یہ دور اب نہیں کہ بہل جایں عوام

جو ہونے والا ہے اس پر نہیں ہم پر الزام

نکل پڑے ہیں قدم اب جو گھر کی چوکھٹ سے

لگادیں پار یہ کشتی بدل کے رکھدیں نظام



صبا چلی ہے نۓ انقلاب کی لوگو

چلو بڑھاؤ قدم اب نہیں رکنا لوگو



اٹھو اٹھو کہ کہیں اب نہ دیر ہوجاۓ

اٹھو اٹھو کہ نہ امید سحر کھو جاۓ

اٹھو اٹھو کہ نہ روکو اب یہ طوفان جہد

اٹھو اٹھو کہ اب کر ہی دو یہ مہر ثبت

اٹھو اٹھو کہ اٹھا پھینکندو لٹیروں کو

اٹھو اٹھو کہ چھٹا دو ان گھپ اندھیروں کو

اٹھو کہ کلماۓ طیب کا ورد جاری ہو

اٹھو کہ آخری فتح صرف تمھاری ہو



محمد منصور علی انصاری

 

[logic]

Some heads should roll after this incident.

Hussain Haqqani Rehman Malik you are directly responsible for this guy carrying weapon.

Both of them should be investigated at the GHQ by the top brass.

 

[VCheng]

^^^ Some heads WILL roll, but only later, and not in the order or manner that you describe.