Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[Leviza]

Everybody should realize that there are many layers of complexities involved. For example, the US government would like to plan for a potential change of government, and will likely ensure that any replacements that come up are also "on board". Thus, ardent opposition now who get into power will suddenly find it useful to continue existing policies. Have we not seen that before many times?

VCheng i respect you and your comments, but i think you are missing few points here.....
sometimes US gov plans are as rubbish as garbage and they dont work...for example placing CIA operatives in Pakistan.... they only succeed when working under cover but they try to do things in Pakistan as they are in Afghanistan which always result in issues like these.

Even for 1 second if i trust what this guy is saying that he acted in self defense , then i like to know can we kill someone in the name of self defense in USA as well ? coz i know there are lots of knife/gun crimes in NY which are very serious and the US policy is that "one cannot use more force in the name of self defense "....

I have seen lot of self defense cases and after acting in self defense 99% of people are more terrified then what this guy did.... and proofed that he didnt acted in self defense

History tell us US it self have never gave diplomatic immunity to anyone.......... so basically US need to shut up and stay in their limits and let the court do justice...... WHY THEY ARE AFRAID OF JUSTICE NOW

actually prob is not diplomatic immunity , problem is if they let the courts of Pakistan taking this case then all of their CIA operative will come under observation and thats the big concern..... and now even they take him out still the CIA/Black water etc will expose.....

 

[Spring Onion]

Now the real test for Qureshi has begun. If he did took the stand then he should have the guts to appear in court and state the obvious.

i watched his press conference till end and he did (warn ) say that if needed and summoned by court he will say it there.

 

[VCheng]

VCheng i respect you and your comments, but i think you are missing few points here.....
sometimes US gov plans are as rubbish as garbage and they dont work...for example placing CIA operatives in Pakistan.... they only succeed when working under cover but they try to do things in Pakistan as they are in Afghanistan which always result in issues like these.

Even for 1 second if i trust what this guy is saying that he acted in self defense , then i like to know can we kill someone in the name of self defense in USA as well ? coz i know there are lots of knife/gun crimes in NY which are very serious and the US policy is that "one cannot use more force in the name of self defense "....

I have seen lot of self defense cases and after acting in self defense 99% of people are more terrified then what this guy did.... and proofed that he didnt acted in self defense

History tell us US it self have never gave diplomatic immunity to anyone.......... so basically US need to shut up and stay in their limits and let the court do justice...... WHY THEY ARE AFRAID OF JUSTICE NOW

actually prob is not diplomatic immunity , problem is if they let the courts of Pakistan taking this case then all of their CIA operative will come under observation and thats the big concern..... and now even they take him out still the CIA/Black water etc will expose.....

Thank you, and I respect your point of view too.

The key difference between what I am saying, and what you are saying is this: Moral indignation, ethics of Right and Wrong, and a populist view of national policies DO NOT translate into international politics, including the present incident.

I hope you understand my contention a little better now.

 

[Spring Onion]

Everybody should realize that there are many layers of complexities involved. For example, the US government would like to plan for a potential change of government, and will likely ensure that any replacements that come up are also "on board". Thus, ardent opposition now who get into power will suddenly find it useful to continue existing policies. Have we not seen that before many times?

lately US had been trying to do that getting frustrated with zardari but since any change at this moment in my personal view is not in favour of Pakistani public and above all we dont have anyone better than current govt. all others are the same so no big change for public will be there.

as far as Davis is concerned. I think let him free , have a good compensation for the families of 3 victims , normalise the situation and keep an eye on US operatives next time. dont let them kill your people without paying the same price next time.

 

[Spring Onion]

Even for 1 second if i trust what this guy is saying that he acted in self defense , then i like to know can we kill someone in the name of self defense in USA as well ? coz i know there are lots of knife/gun crimes in NY which are very serious and the US policy is that "one cannot use more force in the name of self defense "....


e.....

A native American can but you cant because you are NO USA so till you become one you cant talk on emotional grounds

 

[AstanoshKhan]

Everybody should realize that there are many layers of complexities involved. For example, the US government would like to plan for a potential change of government, and will likely ensure that any replacements that come up are also "on board". Thus, ardent opposition now who get into power will suddenly find it useful to continue existing policies. Have we not seen that before many times?

It is a fact that our present (and the past) administration is (were) under the US influence, this much said, what if Qureshi appears in the court and give his verdict against the wishes of PPP/USA Governments? This thing is getting more and more complex for both Pakistan and USA since this time, the sentiments of general populace has involved very deeply.

It reminds me of A very famous quote from Charlie Wilson's War

There's a little boy and on his 14th birthday he gets a horse... and everybody in the village says, "how wonderful. The boy got a horse" And the Zen master says, "we'll see." Two years later, the boy falls off the horse, breaks his leg, and everyone in the village says, "How terrible." And the Zen master says, "We'll see." Then, a war breaks out and all the young men have to go off and fight... except the boy can't cause his legs all messed up. and everybody in the village says, "How wonderful." the Zen master says, "We'll see."

 

[AstanoshKhan]

i watched his press conference till end and he did (warn ) say that if needed and summoned by court he will say it there.

On the basis of "if summoned".

 

[VCheng]

It is a fact that our present (and the past) administration is (were) under the US influence, this much said, what if Qureshi appears in the court and give his verdict against the wishes of PPP/USA Governments? This thing is getting more and more complex for both Pakistan and USA since this time, the sentiments of general populace has involved very deeply.
.
.
.
.

There is "complexity" only for public consumption. The end result has already been decided and only step wise implementation remains. Even Qureshi's role in all of this has been carefully scripted and taken into account.

I do agree with your comments about the deep sentiments of the general population, but I am truly sad to say that, like many times before, they will not be heard by either their own government or internationally. That is the painful truth.

 

[Spring Onion]

On the basis of "if summoned".

what do you mean on the basis of ? if court proceedings continue(which i doubt will) and he was asked to appear before the court to comment on the status of davis (as he today also said that he had had studied the papers of davis and according to them he is not a diplomat) so indeed qureshi will appear for his statement as ex FM

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

I m surprised at Qureshi... I thought the man was a total puppet rubbing his heads with Hillery Clinton et al...

What changed him... probably his remaining bit of conscience could not let him lie??

 

[Leviza]

A native American can but you cant because you are NO USA so till you become one you cant talk on emotional grounds

Although this is against the basic human rights , that one guy based on his/her background have different laws applied but still......
USA now need to shut up in case of this guy as he is not a Pakistan

 

[Leviza]

Thank you, and I respect your point of view too.

The key difference between what I am saying, and what you are saying is this: Moral indignation, ethics of Right and Wrong, and a populist view of national policies DO NOT translate into international politics, including the present incident.

I hope you understand my contention a little better now.

i hope you have come across that USA law where the immunity needs to be justified in US courts if any embassy personal involved in any sort of incident in USA ? either this law is wrong and against the international policies or USA is demanding something different.

as a matter of fact we are on same lines with different approch....

 

[VCheng]

I m surprised at Qureshi... I thought the man was a total puppet rubbing his heads with Hillery Clinton et al...

What changed him... probably his remaining bit of conscience could not let him lie??

Conscience?

A higher price now, and a calculation for a better position for the possible aftermath are much more likely motivations my dear Sir.

 

[VCheng]

i hope you have come across that USA law where the immunity needs to be justified in US courts if any embassy personal involved in any sort of incident in USA ? either this law is wrong and against the international policies or USA is demanding something different.

as a matter of fact we are on same lines with different approch....

Rule of law in the homeland is quite different from pursuit of the supreme national interest internationally for the USA. Please do not confuse the two.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Conscience?

A higher price now, and a calculation for a better position for the possible aftermath are much more likely motivations my dear Sir.

You think this government is going to fall over this issue?? I would ve agreed with you but the problem is there are no mainstream alternatives left... Americans are kind of desperate because of this...