Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[Bang Galore]

Says the guy sitting in Russia. Sure thing my friend. Sure thing.

Isn't it odd that people living outside a country (and i am referring to both Indians & Pakistanis) want their country of origin to take a hardline position which may end up inconveniencing millions but most of them have no qualms in continuing to live in the country/countries that they want a hardline position taken against. Would appreciate their positions more if they marked their protest by chucking everything they have in the "evil" country and turn up to join the protest in their country of origin. People who only want others to sacrifice/risk a lot while being unprepared to inconvenience themselves in the least should be willing to carry the charge of being duplicitous.

 

[WAQAS119]

Raymond Davis does not have any diplomatic immunity , said Shah Mahmood Qasuri

Now what? case was crystal clear from day one but now even foreign minister said that clearly!
Press confrence is still going on! Lets see what more he has to say!

 

[Devil Soul]

Davis doesn’t enjoy blanket immunity US seeking: Qureshi
Updated at 1202 PST Wednesday, February 16, 2011
ISLAMABAD: Former foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said the meeting with the US Senator John Kerry was arranged on the senator’s request. John Kerry was a friend of Pakistan, he added.

The former minister met today with the US Senator, who came here Tuesday and urged Pakistan to release Raymond Davis.

‘Pakistan and America need each other’s help.’ The issue of killing two Pakistani citizens in Lahore in broad daylight by a US embassy employee has become a matter of national respect.
Davis doesn

 

[VCheng]

Davis doesn’t enjoy blanket immunity US seeking: Qureshi
Updated at 1202 PST Wednesday, February 16, 2011
ISLAMABAD: Former foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said the meeting with the US Senator John Kerry was arranged on the senator’s request. John Kerry was a friend of Pakistan, he added.

The former minister met today with the US Senator, who came here Tuesday and urged Pakistan to release Raymond Davis.

‘Pakistan and America need each other’s help.’ The issue of killing two Pakistani citizens in Lahore in broad daylight by a US embassy employee has become a matter of national respect.
Davis doesn

The key word is "former". He has no legal authority and his statement CANNOT be given OFFICIAL weight.

 

[Devil Soul]

New York Times: Davis a ‘Gun-For-Hire’ and Not ‘Diplomat’

The best outcome would be for the Pakistanis to hand Davis over to the Americans under the terms of the Geneva Conventions, with the Americans giving a full explanation of what Davis was doing, and a worldwide crackdown on these private operatives who kill again and again with impunity or immunity.

A version of this op-ed appeared in print on February 15, 2011, in The International Herald Tribune.

Well the same can be applied to americans with reference to Dr. Afia case .... if he & am sure he is not a diplomat

 

[AstanoshKhan]

The key word is "former". He has no legal authority and his statement CANNOT be given OFFICIAL weight.

... or may be Qureshi is on a hunt for revenge. Where was he all this time? Why he didn't come open in the media while he still had the official position?

 

[Areesh]

The key word is "former". He has no legal authority and his statement CANNOT be given OFFICIAL weight.

The keyword is that he was the Foreign minister of Pakistan and was the foreign minister even a few days ago. He was the foreign minister when this mercenary killed two people in "self defence". So what he says has weight in it.

If this is the case then Fauzia Wahab is merely the leader of PPP and her statement can not be given any official weight too.

 

[Areesh]

... or may be Qureshi is on a hunt for revenge. Where was he all this time? Why he didn't come open in the media while he still had the official position?

He is addressing the media in open. Check your TV for more details.

 

[WAQAS119]

The OFFICIAL statement from the Federal government remains the VALID document, no matter what you speculate.
There will be no eruption. This hoopla by the self appointed guardians of national morality will die down sooner than froth.

What you call yourself? You call it hoopla by self appointed guardians of national interest having other people in mind I call it hoopla by self appointed guardians of national having you and your like in mind.
Ah! using such terms is a usual tactic employed when arguer is a short of arguments 'why not make other feel degraded'.

 

[WAQAS119]

The key word is "former". He has no legal authority and his statement CANNOT be given OFFICIAL weight.

Hoopla!!!!!!!!! Remember something?

BTW he was minister at the time the incident occurred and he was removed from his position due to his same stance. It is a simple murder case! why are you guys making such a noise out of it? Guardians?
Courts will decide what to do with that. Period

 

[Devil Soul]

US guidelines support Pakistan case
Updated at 1100 PST Wednesday, February 16, 2011
By Ansar Abbasi
ISLAMABAD: While Washington is putting tons of pressure on Islamabad to let Raymond Davis go under the cover of diplomatic immunity, the latest State Department guidelines on giving such immunity to diplomats of other countries within the US are eye-opening.

“If the US guidelines were followed and had the Davis case happened in any place within the US, Davis would have been treated exactly the same way he is being treated in Pakistan,” an expert who knows immunity procedures in both the countries observed.

The State Department has only recently issued directions to law enforcement and judicial authorities “not to let any criminal go in the garb of diplomatic immunity without police investigation and court order”.

“It is the policy of the US Department of State with respect to alleged criminal violations by persons with immunity from criminal jurisdiction to encourage law enforcement authorities to pursue investigations vigorously, to prepare cases carefully and completely, and to document properly each incident so that charges may be pursued as far as possible in the US judicial system,” Diplomatic and Consular Immunity Guidance for Law Enforcement and Judicial Authorities of the State Department, released in September 2010, says.

While Pakistan is being told that Davis had a licence to kill under the disputed immunity that he supposedly enjoys, the State Department guidelines say: “It should be emphasized that even at its highest level, diplomatic immunity does not exempt diplomatic officers from the obligation of conforming with national and local laws and regulations. Diplomatic immunity is not intended to serve as a licence for persons to flout the law and purposely avoid liability for their actions.”

These guidelines go on: “The purpose of these privileges and immunities is not to benefit individuals but to ensure the efficient and effective performance of their official missions on behalf of their governments. This is a crucial point for law enforcement officers to understand in their dealings with foreign diplomatic and consular personnel. While police officers are obliged, under international customary and treaty law, to recognize the immunity of the envoy, they must not ignore or condone the commission of crimes.”

While the US authorities and the murderer himself had admitted that he (Davis) was a member of Lahore Consulate, the US guidelines solve the riddle, for those who are still confused, by saying, “There is a common misunderstanding that consular personnel have diplomatic status and are entitled to diplomatic immunity.”

Regarding the identification of the diplomat, enjoying immunity, the State Department guidelines say, “IT IS CRITICAL FOR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER to identify quickly and accurately the status of any person asserting immunity. The only authoritative identity document is the identity card issued by the US Department of State’s Office of Protocol...”

The same is the provision in Pakistan where the Foreign Office issues identity card to such diplomats. In case of Davis, it was never issued.

In such cases, the US State Department clearly states: “In all cases, including those in which the individual provides a US Department of State-issued identification card, the law enforcement officer should verify the immunity status with the US Department of State....”

Regarding the waiver of immunity, these guidelines say: “Diplomatic and consular immunity are not intended to benefit the individual; they are intended to benefit the mission of the foreign government or international organization. Thus an individual does not ‘own’ his or her immunity and it may be waived, in whole or in part, by the mission member’s government. The US Department of State will request a waiver of immunity in every case in which the prosecutor advises that he or she would prosecute but for immunity.”
US guidelines support Pakistan case

 

[Bratva]

US guidelines support Pakistan case


ISLAMABAD: While Washington is putting tons of pressure on Islamabad to let Raymond Davis go under the cover of diplomatic immunity, the latest State Department guidelines on giving such immunity to diplomats of other countries within the US are eye-opening.

“If the US guidelines were followed and had the Davis case happened in any place within the US, Davis would have been treated exactly the same way he is being treated in Pakistan,” an expert who knows immunity procedures in both the countries observed.

The State Department has only recently issued directions to law enforcement and judicial authorities “not to let any criminal go in the garb of diplomatic immunity without police investigation and court order”.

“It is the policy of the US Department of State with respect to alleged criminal violations by persons with immunity from criminal jurisdiction to encourage law enforcement authorities to pursue investigations vigorously, to prepare cases carefully and completely, and to document properly each incident so that charges may be pursued as far as possible in the US judicial system,” Diplomatic and Consular Immunity Guidance for Law Enforcement and Judicial Authorities of the State Department, released in September 2010, says.


While Pakistan is being told that Davis had a licence to kill under the disputed immunity that he supposedly enjoys, the State Department guidelines say: “It should be emphasized that even at its highest level, diplomatic immunity does not exempt diplomatic officers from the obligation of conforming with national and local laws and regulations. Diplomatic immunity is not intended to serve as a licence for persons to flout the law and purposely avoid liability for their actions.”

These guidelines go on: “The purpose of these privileges and immunities is not to benefit individuals but to ensure the efficient and effective performance of their official missions on behalf of their governments. This is a crucial point for law enforcement officers to understand in their dealings with foreign diplomatic and consular personnel. While police officers are obliged, under international customary and treaty law, to recognize the immunity of the envoy, they must not ignore or condone the commission of crimes.”


While the US authorities and the murderer himself had admitted that he (Davis) was a member of Lahore Consulate, the US guidelines solve the riddle, for those who are still confused, by saying, “There is a common misunderstanding that consular personnel have diplomatic status and are entitled to diplomatic immunity.”


Regarding the identification of the diplomat, enjoying immunity, the State Department guidelines say, “IT IS CRITICAL FOR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER to identify quickly and accurately the status of any person asserting immunity. The only authoritative identity document is the identity card issued by the US Department of State’s Office of Protocol...”

The same is the provision in Pakistan where the Foreign Office issues identity card to such diplomats. In case of Davis, it was never issued.

In such cases, the US State Department clearly states: “In all cases, including those in which the individual provides a US Department of State-issued identification card, the law enforcement officer should verify the immunity status with the US Department of State....”

Regarding the waiver of immunity, these guidelines say: “Diplomatic and consular immunity are not intended to benefit the individual; they are intended to benefit the mission of the foreign government or international organization. Thus an individual does not ‘own’ his or her immunity and it may be waived, in whole or in part, by the mission member’s government. The US Department of State will request a waiver of immunity in every case in which the prosecutor advises that he or she would prosecute but for immunity.”


US guidelines support Pakistan case

 

[rohailmalhi]

... or may be Qureshi is on a hunt for revenge. Where was he all this time? Why he didn't come open in the media while he still had the official position?

Because he was following the policy of being tight lipped and tht really dont have anything to do with his opposition to releasing Davis with all the court preceding in place . Americans put their ful pressure on him and he didnt took that pressure and then next move by the gov from no where was to shuffle the cabinet . Aik dum say PPP Govt ko kiun yaad aa gaya kay they have to shuffle their minister cabinet.
He took a stand against America for what ever reason he did and they kicked him out in no moment.

 

[53fd]

Isn't it odd that people living outside a country (and i am referring to both Indians & Pakistanis) want their country of origin to take a hardline position which may end up inconveniencing millions but most of them have no qualms in continuing to live in the country/countries that they want a hardline position taken against. Would appreciate their positions more if they marked their protest by chucking everything they have in the "evil" country and turn up to join the protest in their country of origin. People who only want others to sacrifice/risk a lot while being unprepared to inconvenience themselves in the least should be willing to carry the charge of being duplicitous.

I am a fan of the American people, but not the government. That doesn't mean I'm not a law abiding citizen here in the US, but I feel Pakistan has lost a lot more than it has gained from the WOT. I think the US has lost the war of the hearts and minds both in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and the war in Afghanistan is being pushed into Pakistan, which is threatening the national fabric of Pakistan. Quoting Musharraf, $2.5 billion per year is pittance; especially compared to the losses Pakistan has suffered hosting this war (much more than $2.5 billion), and compared to what the US spent in Afghanistan, and even considering the bailout Obama had ($787 billion) for the subprime mortgage financial crisis. $2.5 billion is peanuts, Pakistan can easily earn more revenue than that with sound economic policies, as well as a safer environment when it decides to leave the W.O.T. A decent sized/company can make $2.5 billion revenue per year, we're talking about a country here. Remember, no one in Pakistan was even familiar with even the concept of suicide bombing before the War on Terror was imposed on it.

 

[DV RULES]

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