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Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

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I suppose one possible positive outcome of this episode could be a more cautious approach on the part of US embassy/consulate employees in Pakistan.


With RD`s cavalier attitude, it does not seem that way though, au contrario it seems like US is on a clandestine mission.

RD`s was a brazen act!

Something is cooking up!

We shall see....
 
The replacement of Qureshi as foreign minister may in fact be part of an attempt to get more pliable officials to make a determination on Davis's immunity favorable to the US.

Qureshis removal (if confirmed) has made me lean towards the possibility of the GOP capitulating to American pressure and eventually releasing Davis.
 
The replacement of Qureshi as foreign minister may in fact be part of an attempt to get more pliable officials to make a determination on Davis's immunity favorable to the US.

Qureshis removal (if confirmed) has made me lean towards the possibility of the GOP capitulating to American pressure and eventually releasing Davis.

If this is what the gov is planning to do then why not say it the first day. If they had to give in to the pressures then why all the drama? It will be a sad, really sad day if FO has to take up this position eventually. Wouldnt it make pakistan more of a laughing stock? All talk, no walk! Pathetic.

The million dollar question here would be if this is what gov is planing to do, would it survive the backlash from common Pakistani's who have had enough of Americans!
 
The Raymond Davis case is bringing to light many new things which must be analyzed.

First thing that one can see that the United State's evil designs against Pakistan can be effectively countered by strengthen the rule of law all across Pakistan.

Take the case of Raymond Davis. He is gun totting murder perhaps a spy too, certainly not an 'ally' of Pakistan.

In Lahore, the Police is functional (there are flaws but it’s still functional), the Judiciary is functional, and the State apparatus are all in one way or the other working.

Since this guy clearly broke the law, we have been able to impound him and have taken him to task (till now) for his crime. This has been possible because we have a semblance of law an order in Lahore.

In places like FATA where every thing is dysfunctional and people don’t go by the rule of the law there it is not easy for Pakistan to counter the illegal activities of the Americans since they use the lawlessness of those areas against us.

That’s why to some extent the people of FATA are in many way responsible for the compromised potion we are in viz a viz the United States.

The Raymond Davis story has made it abundantly clear that to make to beat the US in its own game we need to establish and uphold the rule of law across all Pakistan so that lawlessness cannot be used against us.

The United States has very little wiggle room in this case and Raymond Davis is pretty much check mated. The recovery of photographs of bunkers of Pakistan Army raises very serious concerns about the intention of the US diplomatic missions in the country.

And the speculation that these operatives are involved in financing and indirectly supporting terrorist activities in the country might be more than just speculations. Although the American involvement does not absolve the local sh!t bags, who are blowing up the country, of their wrong doings.

History gives us great lessons, the founder of Pakistan Qiad-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah was great man; he was also a very 'correct' man.

By correct one means that he always went by the established rules in order to achieve the goal of independence. By his approach he was able to get a separate homeland and the Brits went home to lick their wounds.

To throw out the yanks from out lands we have to follow a similar path.

And all these threats about US cutting off aid or kicking out Hussain Haqqani ( who by the way in diplomatic circles of Pakistan is known at the 'US Ambassador to the US’ .. haha ) is not going to hurt Pakistan its going to hurt the US more.

Dear Pakistanis, we can do this, harr firaun kay liya aik musa bhi hota ha and we can stand up to the bully and tell him to back off ( rather Fu<k OFF! )

Regarding AID here is little chart o under stand how the AID(s) that the Americans give to developing countries ultimately benefits them and not us

 
^^^ But is there not any benefit to the aid receiving country from those large projects that they themselves would not be able to fund otherwise?
 
In the long run, no these projects/sales don&#8217;t help Pakistan, since we don&#8217;t develop the critical know how and keep going back to foreign corporations who keep fleecing us more and more. We might be going a little of topic here but I've seen the proceeding of some world bank funded projects and other than some corrupt Pakistani officials benefiting from the kick backs no one really benefits , not in the least our down trodden nations
 
In the long run, no these projects/sales don&#8217;t help Pakistan, since we don&#8217;t develop the critical know how and keep going back to foreign corporations who keep fleecing us more and more. We might be going a little of topic here but I've seen the proceeding of some world bank funded projects and other than some corrupt Pakistani officials benefiting from the kick backs no one really benefits , not in the least our down trodden nations

You make a fair point, but I agree with you that such a discussion probably is better suited for another thread, not this one.
 
Why are we denying the fact that the two men murdered were also intelligence agents? There is much more to this story than what is being played in the open.

Why are we denying the fact? We is who Indians? There is no evidence to support your statement.
 
if they were intelligence agents, they wouldnt have been so close in proximity to the vehicle

they'd be several car lengths BEHIND the car -- not in front of it. They'd probably be a lot more inconspicuous too.


only the arm chair conspiracy theorist wallas are making such empty claims without proof
 
US demands &#8216;full immunity&#8217; Davis&#8217;s self-defence claim rejected

LAHORE: Announcing the findings of their investigation into the Raymond Davis case, Lahore police categorically rejected on Friday the American&#8217;s claim that he had killed two motorcyclists at Mozang on Jan 27 in &#8216;self-defence&#8217;.

However, the US Consulate&#8217;s Principal Officer Carmela Conroy called for immediate release of the man, insisting that he was entitled to full immunity from criminal prosecution by Pakistan under the Vienna Convention.

The demand came after a judicial magistrate sent Davis to jail on 14-day judicial remand, as requested by police and prosecution officials.
&#8220;He has committed a murder as he shot at the fleeing boys,&#8221; Lahore police chief Aslam Tareen said at a press conference.

Mr Tareen did not answer questions about the purpose of Davis&#8217;s visit to Mozang. He also declined to say anything about the slain motorcyclists&#8217; activities.

&#8220;I cannot comment on the diplomatic status of Raymond and the job assigned to him in Pakistan by the American government.&#8221;

He also refused to say why did Davis shoot at the motorcyclists when the latter had not aimed guns at him.

Mr Tareen said Davis had told police during interrogation that he was a technical adviser at the American consulate and this was his 10th visit to Pakistan.

The police chief said: &#8220;Forensic reports say no fingerprints were found on the triggers of the (motorcyclists&#8217;) pistols and the bullets remained in the magazine of their gun, and not in the chamber.&#8221; Davis gave no chance to the boys, he said.

&#8220;We have proof in the form of eyewitness accounts and forensic reports that it was not a case of self-defence. Rather it was a clear murder,&#8221; he said.

Mr Tareen said the investigation team had found a GPS tracker, mobile phones, wireless sets, a survival kit and photographs in Davis&#8217;s car.

&#8220;The investigation revealed that the motorcyclists did not point guns at Davis as the weapons recovered from them were not loaded.&#8221;

Witnesses told police that Davis had directly shot at them and kept shooting
even when one of them was running for his life.
:tdown:

Mr Tareen termed it a cold-blooded act and accused Davis of intentionally killing the two men in a public place. :tup:

He said police had completed their investigation and submitted a provisional charge-sheet, requesting the court to take action against Davis under Article 302 of the Pakistan Penal Code.

He said the suspects whose car had crushed to death another motorcyclist,Ibadur Rehman, had not been handed over to police.

&#8220;The Punjab government has written to the federal government about the Ibadur Rehman case and has also sent reminders,&#8221; he said.

Addressing a press conference later, the US consulate&#8217;s principal officer claimed that as a member of the administrative and technical staff in her
country&#8217;s embassy in Islamabad, Davis was entitled to full immunity from criminal prosecution by Pakistan under the Vienna Convention on diplomatic relations of 1961.

All countries, including my country and your country, freely agreed to abide by these rules. Under the rules he should be freed immediately,&#8221; Ms Conroy said.She read out an official statement which said: &#8220;We understand that eyewitnesses said that Davis had acted in self-defence when confronted with two armed men on a motorcycle.


&#8220;We also understand that these men were found with stolen property. We regret that authorities did not consider these eyewitness accounts and physical evidence when they stated that this was not a case of self-defence.&#8221;

She said the United States respected the law and Pakistan&#8217;s sovereignty [ really ? ], and expected all representatives of its government to respect the laws of the host nation.

&#8220;We respect the people of Pakistan [ nope you dont , you are liers I've seen how Pakistanis entering the United States are treated first hand ] and enjoy working and living in this country. Americans and Pakistan can accomplish so much together.&#8221;

She said the US and Pakistan both needed to resolve the case immediately [ yes the case needs to be resolved quickly , justice must be done, killer must be sent to jail or to the gallows and the US embassy and consulates must cease all anti-state activities and most of all stop these 'demands' of the killer's release ] and continue their work, including cooperation in education and health,
their common fight against extremist violence and building bridges between the people of the twp countries.

US demands
 
In my view, Raymond Davis incident can be a real turning point in US relations with Pakistan / India. There are voices in US strategic community for dumping Pakistan (treating it as a total terrorist state), dismantling Pakistan Army and occupying it with India's help. But there are also strong voices supporting US decades long alliance with Pakistan.

Just as ominously, the US is really angry with Pakistan for siding with China.

However, I don't think the day has come yet for US to overtly change sides. Obama was given this option many times during his term so far. The main reason is that turning against Pakistan suddenly would totally destabilize South Asia and lead to a messy war with India and China involved. The US doesn't want to deal with that at the same time as Afghanistan.

The next president after Obama, however, could have a different opinion. Pakistan should be prepared just in case.

In the 50's India had a non-aligned foreign policy and a socialist economy, an alliance with the US was out of the question. Pakistan, the smaller party, was desperate for an alliance. The US became an ally of Pakistan because an alliance with India was not an option.

There were many in the US who thought of that as a strategic mistake.

Now India is a member of the western club, It is the obvious choice as an ally.Due to its size, economy and the China factor this is a permanent alliance.

The alliance with Pakistan is temporary, solely due to the Afghan war, it will end when the Afghan war ends. The two alliances are mutually exclusive; you can't be allied to both countries.

Despite the US showing the best disposition to Pakistan currently, it still has not accepted Pakistan's nuclear status. When the war is over, this issue and the China factor, will break the alliance.

The US will become an active adversary.

This to me is obvious.
 
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Balahisar makes sense.. its a historical monument..
But bunkers on the eastern border??
Maybe he just was curious.. tourist maybe..

About the bunkers, why would India require info from an American, when India already gets detailed maps, positions of all the bunkers by "many" means. Has it been established that the two men killed were really ISI men?
Exactly, what kind of military installations" pics did he have in his camera.
 
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