Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[ajtr]

They can anytime pack their bags in the C-5s and fly home 8000 km away --- remember that.

It will be the Afghans and the Pakistanis who will be the worst hit by that - not US.

dont forget the usa war machinery.

 

[Awesome]

Pakistani woman buried -  International News

Shumaila Kanwal, 23, consumed pesticide yesterday at her parents'' home in Faisalabad district, 100 km from here.

She died in hospital late last night.

Kanwal''s husband Muhammad Faheem was one of two men shot and killed by US consulate employee Raymond Davis in Lahore on January 27.

The woman''s relatives organized a protest in Faisalabad, saying they wanted to take her body to the US consulate in Lahore.

Members of Kanwal''s family said she had been under "extreme stress" since the death of her husband.

Police in Faisalabad barred the family from taking the body to Lahore.

"The police, on the orders of Punjab Chief Minister Shahbaz Shabaz, did not allow us to take the body to Lahore,� Muhammad Saleem, Faheem�s brother, told reporters.

Saleem claimed the government was "treating the murderer of his brother as a VIP" and warned there would be a "law and order situation" if Davis is handed over to the US.

Kanwal had told reporters before she died that she decided to commit suicide as she believed her husband''s killer would be freed by Pakistani authorities without trial.

"I want justice, I want blood for blood. He (Davis) should not be released," she said hours before her death.

She also recorded a statement in which she said: "Even after 11 days of the killing of my husband, no breakthrough has been made. The killer is being treated as a guest at the police station. I need justice and blood in return for the blood of my husband."
Davis, currently in police custody in Lahore, has told investigators that he acted in self defence as the two men wanted to rob him.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The case on the Mumbai attacks is being brought in here solely on the question of whether claims of diplomatic immunity could be superseded by judicial decisions.

The US government cannot merely make a statement to the media about the status of the ISI chiefs and whether or not US courts have jurisdiction, and simply expect the court to dismiss the attempt to make the ISI chiefs respondents in the lawsuit - since the case has been brought before the courts, those facts have to be established in front of the courts.

The point that ought to be made here is that the courts simply do not have jurisdiction on matters relating to diplomatic immunity. The foreign office is the sole decision maker on that. The courts come into play only if such immunity is denied by the FO. The Pakistani government is the sole arbitrator on that score. The case against RD is of no consequence if he enjoys immunity & no jurisdiction of Pakistani Courts will be recognised .

The courts are waiting for the Pakistani government to make its case that Davis has diplomatic immunity. As in the US lawsuit, merely making statements to the media is not going to be sufficient since Davis has been arrested and produced before the courts, and they must issue an order to release him under diplomatic immunity.

This is simply going to blow up in the present governments face when they do the inevitable. Better to have condemned the incident while regretting that RD enjoys immunity and expelling a few more Americans for the other accident instead of allowing this to build a momentum of its own.

I agree that it will blow up in the GoP's face if/when they release Davis because of diplomatic immunity - which is why IMO they would do better by sticking to their guns and arguing that Davis does not have absolute diplomatic immunity, allowing the US government to defend its position (and Davis) in front of the courts, and allowing the courts to make a decision on his status and whether he should be tried for the homicide of the two individuals.

 

[Awesome]

JI blames rulers for Fahim’s widow’s suicide | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

The Jamaat-e-Islami chief, Syed Munawar Hasan, has held the government responsible for the death of the widow of Fahim, one of the young men shot dead by an American in broad day light here last week.
In a statement here Monday, he said that the widow had embraced death after being disappointed of justice from the rulers who were keen to defend the killer instead of their own citizen, which he said, was most condemnable.
He demanded trial of American Raymond Davis for four murders, and announced that the JI would hold protest against the continuing injustice.
Meanwhile, the JI deputy Secretary General, Dr Farid Ahmed Piracha, also blamed the government for the widow’s suicide as she feared that the authorities would hand over the murderer- leader of the terrorists- to the US.
Addressing a Seerat conference at Kingra, near Raiwind, he said if the Muslim Ummah could forge unity on safeguarding the Holy Prophet’s sanctity, the propagation of Islamic teachings and for enforcement of the Nizam e Mustafa, not only Pakistan but the whole world could become land of peace, and tranquility, justice and equality .

[Ohhmmmm]Tomorrow's sun would bring about much change[/Ohhmmmm]

 

[VCheng]

JI blames rulers for Fahim’s widow’s suicide | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online



[Ohhmmmm]Tomorrow's sun would bring about much change[/Ohhmmmm]

We can agree to disgree: Nothing SUBSTANTIVE will change over this situation.

 

[ares]

nopes this doesn't reflect the current situation in Pak, since the govt now cannot risk hiking the prices much. there is mot much margin left, unless the want to risk a massive civilian unrest which is a real possibility in Pakistan even right now. So the govt would have to either cut down its expenses or leave. there arent any third options at this stage of the game anymore.

And not much is being spent on health and education anyways, less than 1% is not even spending on a certain sector where cost cuts would reap anything.

Ok lets take option two ..and say govt makes massive budgetary cuts ..a major non productive..but a very emotional budget ie defence will have to cut (4.2% of GDP).

As we are talking about post default scenario ..there will no FDI,FII etc...leading to fall in growth rate.
Plus domestic investors will already under massive tax pressure to invest in any new projects...little private sector growth.
On the top of it developmental budgets will also have drastically reduced..bye-bye positive growth.

 

[Safriz]

dont forget the usa war machinery.

and an economy heavily relying on defense equipment sales.
No wars no sales,no income for USA's war machine.

 

[Awesome]

Just to repeat the biggest curve ball of the day that seems to have been buried in the news:

Two dead Pakistani were intelligence operatives: report, IBN Live News

The Punjab government has sought assistance from the federal government in securing the custody of the three American men accused of killing the third Pakistan while they were rushing to help Davis."We have sought access to get custody of these accused because they are wanted by the Punjab police in connection to the Raymond Davis case," said Pervez Rashid, spokesman for the Punjab Chief Minister."The interior ministry has placed the names of the three Americans, including the driver of the US consulate in Lahore, on the Exit Control List,� an Interior Ministry official was quoted as saying by The Express Tribune.The Exit Control List empowers the government to prevent any person from leaving Pakistan.The Interior Ministry, through the Foreign Office, has written to the US consulate, asking for the three Americans to be handed over to Punjab Police, the Interior Ministry official said.He declined to name the three Americans, saying it might compromise the investigation. The US Embassy said it was not aware of these developments."We have not received any such information on the issue as yet," said Courtney Beale, acting spokesperson for the Embassy.Davis is currently in police custody in Lahore and Pakistani leaders have rejected US demands for him to be released on the ground that he enjoys diplomatic immunity. PTI RHL

The situation all depends upon the Pakistani avaam, not the government, not the Americans, not conventions nor any commandment! If you set a precedent today that we can be killed with impunity and not even take the matter to court, then we might as well forget about Pakistan we are merely cannon fodder in this war.

The issue is squat about punishing Davis, its about justice. When you throw away the court room trials, this is the mess you get. Insaaf chahiye bass.

I don't know why PTI and JI are footing on the issue... Enough rallies and press conferences have been held on Qurtaba Chowk (site of murders), this needs to be done on Shahra-e-Dastoor

Pakistan Zindabad, Paindabad. Bohot hogaya, ab agay barho.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Exactly! You can't make an arrest in that case until and unless you confirm it with your FO.

It cannot be done.

That makes no sense, because then any criminal could claim 'diplomatic immunity' when being arrested after a crime, and argue that he should not be arrested until the 'Foreign Office confirms/denies diplomatic immunity'.

A double homicide was committed, the suspect was in possession of an illegal firearm. The suspect did not have the proper papers establishing diplomatic immunity. I don't see how the police acted improperly in this case.

 

[Awesome]

We can agree to disgree: Nothing SUBSTANTIVE will change over this situation.

Which is why Shumaila killed her self, she too had this belief... She expects total bay hissy from the Pakistani people.

A person burned him self and governments have started toppling in the Middle East.

Shumaila drank pesticides, I imagine it was a painful end for her... The blame would be upon us all if we didn't do our part to at least make the matter go to court...

 

[The HBS Guy]

The issue is squat about punishing Davis, its about justice. When you throw away the court room trials, this is the mess you get. Insaaf chahiye bass..

And what will happen to international conventions?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And what will happen to international conventions?

Establishing whether international conventions apply in this case is part of 'getting justice' and 'the rule of law'.

 

[The HBS Guy]

That makes no sense, because then any criminal could claim 'diplomatic immunity' when being arrested after a crime, and argue that he should not be arrested until the 'Foreign Office confirms/denies diplomatic immunity'.

It sounds weird but that's how it works. You might not like it but its legality is not subject to your liking.

There's a whole history of diplomatic immunity being abused across nations. Even in the western world.

 

[Awesome]

And what will happen to international conventions?

The court has already said they will also be the final authority in making the call on whether or not the immunity applies.

As the courts of various countries have decided on immunity before as well.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It sounds weird but that's how it works. You might not like it but its legality is not subject to your liking.

There's a whole history of diplomatic immunity being abused across nations. Even in the western world.

You haven't established why the arrest of an individual unable to prove his diplomatic immunity, after a crime, is 'illegal' or 'in violation of the Vienna conventions'.

Law enforcement has every right to arrest an individual suspected of a crime. The individual/Embassy/Foreign Office has every right to establish his/her 'diplomatic immunity' to the police/courts after arrest and get the individual released. An arresting police officer, especially in South Asia (where education requirements and training can be minimal) is not really qualified to make a determination at the scene of a crime on whether the prime suspect should be arrested or allowed to walk free simply because he/she claims diplomatic immunity.