Bull
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2006
- Messages
- 6,850
- Reaction score
- 0
Just bcoz you are a muslim and you belong to a country which states muslims above all we neednt do the same.
RAWs Game Plan
- Thread starter BanglaBhoot
- Start date
Just bcoz you are a muslim and you belong to a country which states muslims above all we neednt do the same.
leonblack08
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 4,072
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
If this argument is taken in to consideration than almost all organisations in bangladesh are communal..People should use little brain which they are carrying,,
You got your facts wrong sir.
There are hindus in Bangladeshi Defence forces.I have seen a few hindu army men whose rank is as high as Major General.
Look at the ministers cabinet of Bangladesh and tell me how many Hindus are there.Not to mention other fields,where Hindus are working as hard as the muslims of Bangladesh are doing.
leonblack08
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 4,072
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Depends upon what you mean by Higher level.As I said before,look at the ministers and MP list.Look at the bureacrats list.You don't know about Bangladesh,so please don't talk rubbish,I am sorry if I sound harsh.
An extract:
"On 20 October 2007, the government of Bangladesh appointed Dr. Debapriya Bhattacharya as Bangladesh's permanent representative (PR) based in Geneva. This is first diplomatic assignment. Ambassador Bhattacharya assumed charge in Geneva in November. At the WTO he chairs a number of committees and sub-committees on different issues. He is also the co-ordinator of the LDCs."
Our national anthem is written by Tagore,Although we could have chosen from Kazi Nazrul Islam's work.
BanglaBhoot
RETIRED TTA
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2007
- Messages
- 8,839
- Reaction score
- 5
- Country
- Location
Minorities are very well represented in Bangladesh especially in the armed forces, judiciary, bureaucracy, banking and business sectors and diplomatic services.
notsuperstitious
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2009
- Messages
- 10,473
- Reaction score
- -15
IF MBI Munshi's other scores of posts are to be believed, RAW recruits many many muslims in Bangladesh. NWFP, Afghanistan and Kashmir 
So its not fair to say RAW does not recruit muslims. Come on, just because the posts are in the format of unsubstantiated theories, guesswork and accusations, doesn't mean there's no truth to them.
So its not fair to say RAW does not recruit muslims. Come on, just because the posts are in the format of unsubstantiated theories, guesswork and accusations, doesn't mean there's no truth to them.
leonblack08
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 4,072
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
IF MBI Munshi's other scores of posts are to be believed, RAW recruits many many muslims in Bangladesh. NWFP, Afghanistan and Kashmir
So its not fair to say RAW does not recruit muslims. Come on, just because the posts are in the format of unsubstantiated theories, guesswork and accusations, doesn't mean there's no truth to them.
We can at least be serious.
RAW does not have muslims means,in important posts.RAW may have muslim Chaiwalas,but that does not have any importance.
notsuperstitious
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2009
- Messages
- 10,473
- Reaction score
- -15
Dude, I'm being serious, just because i point out a contradiction in a particular member's virulent anti india posts, does not mean i'm not being serious. often exposed contradictions are funny.
it does not make sense that RAW recruits non important muslims in Bangladesh, NWFP, Afghanistan, Balochistan and Kashmir. I reject your contention, its unreasonable.
leonblack08
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 4,072
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Important posts implies Decision making posts.Executive posts.Sorry for not being clear in the post earlier.
The recruits you are talking about are informers or media men or anyone with significant grab on enemy system, who does the dirty work for the "organisation" for money.
They are just used,and when becomes annoying,are killed.They are important but they are not the ones we are talking about here.
notsuperstitious
ELITE MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2009
- Messages
- 10,473
- Reaction score
- -15
Again, just an accusation. There's no proof that RAW is allowed to carry out assasinations of its operatives.
Besides, RAW reports directly to the PM, who happens to be a sikh, and his govt is controlled by a Catholic. the deep suspicions indian politicians have of armed forces (caused mainly by the experience of pakistan) means that these shrewed and extremely powerful politicians will not allow RAW to go against their wishes. if u want me to believe that this author knows (from where??? i can guess
) that RAW is protecting prabhakaran, but Sonia Gandhi does not know it, then this so called analyses fails the test of reasonableness.seriously.
Last edited:
leonblack08
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 4,072
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Again, just an accusation. There's no proof that RAW is allowed to carry out assasinations of its operatives.
Besides, RAW reports directly to the PM, who happens to be a sikh, and his govt is controlled by a Catholic. the deep suspicions indian politicians have of armed forces (caused mainly by the experience of pakistan) means that these shrewed and extremely powerful politicians will not allow RAW to go against their wishes. if u want me to believe that this author knows (from where??? i can guess
seriously.
I did not single out RAW but said "organisation",which means the espionage organisations.Try to understand the posts before replying,would be helpful for you.
Sorry to say but you deflected the discussion.We were talking about muslims in RAW.not shikh PM or christian party leader.
leonblack08
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 4,072
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Muslims And Sikhs Need Not Apply
You can blame all of India's intelligence fiascos mainly on Hindus, as the agencies don't find Muslims or Sikhs fit to work for them.
SAIKAT DATTA
Noted educationist and former parliamentarian Humayun Kabir was known, among other things, for being a prominent Bengali politician who did not subscribe to the Muslim League vision of Pakistan. Instead, he chose secular India, rose to be the education secretary. Little did Kabir know that nearly fifty years later, one of his grandsons would not be inducted into RAW, India external intelligence agency. Reason: he was a Muslim.
The year was 2000. The NDA government was restructuring the Indian security apparatus following the Kargil war. Kabir grandson had been cleared for induction into the RAW air wing, the aviation research centre (ARC). He was found to be competent for the job and met all the required parameters. His interviewers were very impressed with him. They had no doubt that they had found their man.
But hours later the decision was reversed. The members of the selection board came to the view that there was a question mark on Kabir suitability for the job. He was a Muslim and the unwritten code within the agency was that Muslims could not be inducted it. That code vis-a-vis Muslims is still followed. From 1969 till todayRAW current staff strength is about 10,000 it has avoided recruiting any Muslim officer. Neither has the National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO), a crucial arm of external intelligence. The Intelligence Bureau (IB) with 12,000 personnel has been a little more open. It has a handful of Muslim officers, the senior-most is a joint director.
Many intelligence officials say keeping Muslims out or minimally represented is unwise. Post-9/11 the Indian intelligence community has been tasked to keep its eyes and ears open to global Islamic terrorism. It is here that the presence of dedicated Muslim officers will add to the expertise and capabilities that an organisation like RAW requires. But, senior officers are quick to point out that this should be done not to appease the community. "We have to realise that by following the unwritten code we are denying a pool of talent that is readily available. We need bright, dynamic, intelligent operatives. Should we deny them an opportunity just because they are Muslims?" asks a senior official.
According to former RAW chief A.S. Dulat, appointing Muslims is not only necessary but also critical. He feels that only a Muslim is capable of understanding the psyche of the community. Says Dulat: "The Muslim psyche can be baffling to non-Muslims. However much a person claims to be in tune with what the community feels, he can never really know all the nuances. A Muslim, on the other hand, would have the feel for the language, the metaphor and the culture. If you have to know what is happening in Aligarh Muslim University or SIMI, a Muslim will be much better informed. And you cannot wish away the feeling of neglect, the hurt and the discrimination that the community feels. That too is something a Muslim would be able to understand better."
Similarly, while dealing with intelligence inputs from Pakistan and Bangladesh, a Muslim could be far more effective. But officials point out that appointments should not label Muslim officers as Pakistani specialists. As Indians, their expertise can be deployed elsewhere too. The point they make is that efficient and qualified candidates should not be barred because of their religious identity.
As opposed to RAW, the IB, tasked with internal security, took a decision during the Narasimha Rao government to induct Muslim officers. Soon a couple of young IPS officers were taken in one from the Uttar Pradesh cadre became the first inductees into the IB. Since then a few more appointments have taken place. According to official feedback, the performance of Muslim officers has never been under question.In fact, some of them went on to hold senior positions and one officer has risen to the rank of joint director presently handling a sensitive unit.
"There was some discussion within the IB before the doors were thrown open. The bottomline for us was that only merit would be the criterion. As intelligence officials our backgrounds are checked periodically. It applies to everyone irrespective of religious or ethnic identities," a senior official told Outlook. Some of the Muslim officers proved to be a big asset in several anti-insurgency operations in J&K. "They could identify with the sensibilities of the Kashmiris and were much more sensitive in their approach which paid off in 1994-95 when militancy was at its height. In fact, these officers helped us counter the Pakistani propaganda that was dominant in the Kashmir valley during that time," he adds.
Now several RAW officials agree a lack of Muslims in the organisation has created a void. They say a large part of India strategic outlook covers countries in the Middle East and the Gulf which are primarily Islamic. "These have been traditionally weak areas for us and the induction of Muslim officers could help us. But, we have to also side-step the narrow vision of hiring Muslims in Islamic states and just look at them as professionals," an official told Outlook.
Things could change if the present RAW chief, P.K. Hormese Tharakan, can push the case for a review of the recruitment policy. He has already embarked on an exercise to recruit talented manpower irrespective of religious or ethnic identity. A senior retired naval admiral has been hired as a consultant for this task. However, a final decision on any change in the present position has to come from the government.
Soon after the task force on intelligence submitted its report to the NDA government in 2000, it began an exercise to revamp intelligence agencies. While new organisations were being set up, a senior bureaucrat approached the then national security advisor (NSA) Brajesh Mishra for guidance. "I asked him if we could induct Muslims into the organisations that were being set up. He promised us that he would look into it. I never heard from him after that," he told Outlook.
The matter was taken up once again when J.N. Dixit took over as the NSA in the UPA government. Points out a bureaucrat: "He heard us out and gave instructions that there should be no discrimination on the basis of religion while recruiting competent officers. Days later he passed away and the instructions were not recorded on file and did not become official policy. So things continue to be the way they were."
Recruiting Muslims into the intelligence agencies finds support from within the strategic community. Says Air Commodore Jasjit Singh, who was part of the committee set up to restructure Indian intelligence in 1998. "I would emphasise that religion must not be a criterion. We have had an eminent chief of air staff in Idrees Latif and Lt General Jameel was army commander of Eastern Command while Lt Gen Zaki was security advisor to the J&K government at a critical period of militancy in the early 1990s. India is a country of minorities, whether religious, ethnic, linguistic or caste. And this is the strength of the nation," Those who argue for an all-inclusive policy based on merit like to remind the sceptics that it was Sikh officers and men who finally rooted out militancy in Punjab. Is the secular" Indian state listening?
Muslims And Sikhs Need Not Apply | Indian Muslims
Main Source:Outlook
You can blame all of India's intelligence fiascos mainly on Hindus, as the agencies don't find Muslims or Sikhs fit to work for them.
SAIKAT DATTA
Noted educationist and former parliamentarian Humayun Kabir was known, among other things, for being a prominent Bengali politician who did not subscribe to the Muslim League vision of Pakistan. Instead, he chose secular India, rose to be the education secretary. Little did Kabir know that nearly fifty years later, one of his grandsons would not be inducted into RAW, India external intelligence agency. Reason: he was a Muslim.
The year was 2000. The NDA government was restructuring the Indian security apparatus following the Kargil war. Kabir grandson had been cleared for induction into the RAW air wing, the aviation research centre (ARC). He was found to be competent for the job and met all the required parameters. His interviewers were very impressed with him. They had no doubt that they had found their man.
But hours later the decision was reversed. The members of the selection board came to the view that there was a question mark on Kabir suitability for the job. He was a Muslim and the unwritten code within the agency was that Muslims could not be inducted it. That code vis-a-vis Muslims is still followed. From 1969 till todayRAW current staff strength is about 10,000 it has avoided recruiting any Muslim officer. Neither has the National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO), a crucial arm of external intelligence. The Intelligence Bureau (IB) with 12,000 personnel has been a little more open. It has a handful of Muslim officers, the senior-most is a joint director.
Many intelligence officials say keeping Muslims out or minimally represented is unwise. Post-9/11 the Indian intelligence community has been tasked to keep its eyes and ears open to global Islamic terrorism. It is here that the presence of dedicated Muslim officers will add to the expertise and capabilities that an organisation like RAW requires. But, senior officers are quick to point out that this should be done not to appease the community. "We have to realise that by following the unwritten code we are denying a pool of talent that is readily available. We need bright, dynamic, intelligent operatives. Should we deny them an opportunity just because they are Muslims?" asks a senior official.
According to former RAW chief A.S. Dulat, appointing Muslims is not only necessary but also critical. He feels that only a Muslim is capable of understanding the psyche of the community. Says Dulat: "The Muslim psyche can be baffling to non-Muslims. However much a person claims to be in tune with what the community feels, he can never really know all the nuances. A Muslim, on the other hand, would have the feel for the language, the metaphor and the culture. If you have to know what is happening in Aligarh Muslim University or SIMI, a Muslim will be much better informed. And you cannot wish away the feeling of neglect, the hurt and the discrimination that the community feels. That too is something a Muslim would be able to understand better."
Similarly, while dealing with intelligence inputs from Pakistan and Bangladesh, a Muslim could be far more effective. But officials point out that appointments should not label Muslim officers as Pakistani specialists. As Indians, their expertise can be deployed elsewhere too. The point they make is that efficient and qualified candidates should not be barred because of their religious identity.
As opposed to RAW, the IB, tasked with internal security, took a decision during the Narasimha Rao government to induct Muslim officers. Soon a couple of young IPS officers were taken in one from the Uttar Pradesh cadre became the first inductees into the IB. Since then a few more appointments have taken place. According to official feedback, the performance of Muslim officers has never been under question.In fact, some of them went on to hold senior positions and one officer has risen to the rank of joint director presently handling a sensitive unit.
"There was some discussion within the IB before the doors were thrown open. The bottomline for us was that only merit would be the criterion. As intelligence officials our backgrounds are checked periodically. It applies to everyone irrespective of religious or ethnic identities," a senior official told Outlook. Some of the Muslim officers proved to be a big asset in several anti-insurgency operations in J&K. "They could identify with the sensibilities of the Kashmiris and were much more sensitive in their approach which paid off in 1994-95 when militancy was at its height. In fact, these officers helped us counter the Pakistani propaganda that was dominant in the Kashmir valley during that time," he adds.
Now several RAW officials agree a lack of Muslims in the organisation has created a void. They say a large part of India strategic outlook covers countries in the Middle East and the Gulf which are primarily Islamic. "These have been traditionally weak areas for us and the induction of Muslim officers could help us. But, we have to also side-step the narrow vision of hiring Muslims in Islamic states and just look at them as professionals," an official told Outlook.
Things could change if the present RAW chief, P.K. Hormese Tharakan, can push the case for a review of the recruitment policy. He has already embarked on an exercise to recruit talented manpower irrespective of religious or ethnic identity. A senior retired naval admiral has been hired as a consultant for this task. However, a final decision on any change in the present position has to come from the government.
Soon after the task force on intelligence submitted its report to the NDA government in 2000, it began an exercise to revamp intelligence agencies. While new organisations were being set up, a senior bureaucrat approached the then national security advisor (NSA) Brajesh Mishra for guidance. "I asked him if we could induct Muslims into the organisations that were being set up. He promised us that he would look into it. I never heard from him after that," he told Outlook.
The matter was taken up once again when J.N. Dixit took over as the NSA in the UPA government. Points out a bureaucrat: "He heard us out and gave instructions that there should be no discrimination on the basis of religion while recruiting competent officers. Days later he passed away and the instructions were not recorded on file and did not become official policy. So things continue to be the way they were."
Recruiting Muslims into the intelligence agencies finds support from within the strategic community. Says Air Commodore Jasjit Singh, who was part of the committee set up to restructure Indian intelligence in 1998. "I would emphasise that religion must not be a criterion. We have had an eminent chief of air staff in Idrees Latif and Lt General Jameel was army commander of Eastern Command while Lt Gen Zaki was security advisor to the J&K government at a critical period of militancy in the early 1990s. India is a country of minorities, whether religious, ethnic, linguistic or caste. And this is the strength of the nation," Those who argue for an all-inclusive policy based on merit like to remind the sceptics that it was Sikh officers and men who finally rooted out militancy in Punjab. Is the secular" Indian state listening?
Muslims And Sikhs Need Not Apply | Indian Muslims
Main Source:Outlook
leonblack08
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2008
- Messages
- 4,072
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What do you think of the above?
What do you think of the above?
I think we should have Muslims in RAW.
Not sure why it should be an issue across the border though!
I guess it hurts that hindus saved their nation.
Similar threads
