Mirza, I'm not here to change your views but I take it very personally when you accuse my country of sponsoring terrorism in Pak (OK, I'm an ex-citizen of India...still I consider it my motherland).
I would feel very guilty if innocent civilians - men, women, children died in Pakistan because of Indian State's involvement. That's a burden I just cannot bear. I will not be able to look any Pakistani in the eye if any/all of it was true.
So, I will examine all these accusations against India (mostly a fan fiction created by Pakistani media) on their own merit. I never said that RAW elenents are not present in Pakistan just like ISI elements are also present in India. But is it India's State policy to kill innocent civilians there through cross-border terrorism? I don't think so.
I believe both RAW and ISI have inconsequential influence in each other's countries. Both countries media suffer from mass hysteria which leads to all these fairy tale accusations.
Many Pakistani posters tell me here that the Pushtoons of NWFP are very proud Pakistanis. If that is true, then no matter what India did during Partition is now irrelevant.
It's been 73 yeasrs, a bit too late to discuss Partition events. I agree Indian leaders had tried to block the very creation of Pakistan. But all that's now past:
Pakistan is a reality.
You need to move on from that narrative.
Which countries? India and Afghanistan? That's just a diplomatic treaty. Even Pakistan surely had established relations with this newfound Afghanistan at a much later date.
Almost 23 years after. I find this very interesting. It took India 23-24 years to even officially recognize that country of bandits and tribal warlords. What does that tell you? Indians were far too busy in their internal problems to bother about that place west of Durand line.
Cold War era, India was almost a vassal state of the former USSR. Whereas Pakistan was the baby of America. Both our countries were relatively poor. Back then, we did what the superpowers told us to do.
So far, none of the points you mentioned have any relevance to your arguments for Indian cross-border terrorism support in your country's western borders.
That was before the Taliban era. India was maintaining its diplomatic relationship with Afghanistan. We did not care which bandit ruled the throne in Kabul. Once the Talibans conquered the territories, the Indians had no choice but to deal with them. Now that they're out of power, we are again dealing with Ashraf Ghani and team.
Why blame us if the Afghans are such an incohesive group of people that just can't create and sustain a stable government for their own people? We will have to begrudgingly support whichever tribal warlord comes next. It's the Afghans internal decisions, and we don't interfere in that (unlike the USA and some other NATO countries).
I agree, we did. Frankly we shouldn't have gotten involved in that messy country in the first place. The US and NATO were enough. Probably not? Even they want to pull back.
As for the Shumali Ittehad, I don't give a damn about them. What difference does it make? The Afghans are simply happy to trade one set of warlords for the other. Frankly, not only India, but most countries in the world are getting tired of their internal bickering.
All those warlords should get together and support Mr. Ashraf Ghani. Also they should stop gunning each other down over minor disagreements.
At least he's trying to bring a semblance of law and order to that *hole. When will Afghanistan join the civilized order of nations? For the last 1000 years, we have seen no such evidence. Maybe even longer. Even Alexander the Great got tired of their internal bickerings when he conquered Bactria.
Honestly, I'm in favour of India immediately withdrawing all our embassy staff and other personnel engaged in humanitarian missions in Afghanistan. The damned Afghans can't be helped...fighting is in their DNA. The concept of peace is alien to them.
None of this has anything to do with Pakistan.
Do note I am aware that Afghanistan is not only a Pushtoon country. I believe the Tadjiks are currently a majority there, and there is a significant population of Hazaras.
So, if someone accuses me of anti-Pukhtoonism here, please get your facts right. I am discussing the country of Afghanistan, not NWFP.
Like India was alone? Pakistan even offered its territory and armed forces for the US-led invasion of Afghanistan. Not a single American-NATO soldier was allowed to pass through Indian territory to invade Afghanistan as India's official position was a neutral stance.
What the hell, Mirza? Didn't expect this line of reasoning for you. During the WOT, both our countries sucked up to Uncle Sam. Pakistan did a lot more than us though.
What's wrong with that? You expected India to stay silent while the Afghan warlords murder each other with brutality, leaving widows, orphans, and people with broken limbs all around the country?
Of course, they needed help to rebuild their lives. India did everything it could to help that country stand back on its feet. Building libraries and hospitals, roads and highways in that country at great personal risk to many Indian staff. What do they have to look forward to,
but to get killed by one of the depraved Talibani warlords
Imagine being a skilled engineer in India. You have your whole life ahead of you. MIT, Stanford, a possible internship with Google in Silicon Valley. Instead duty calls, and you decide to help your government build roads and highways for a people you have no connection to. And then you get killed in the line of duty!
I am still in favour of Indian government pulling out of that accursed country, and let the Afghans to their own devices. I also support the Pakistanis to go and build that country with their own money. Your own PM Imran Khan has washed his hands off Afghanistan, cribbing in UN General Assembly on how Pakistan paid such a huge price for Afghanistan, had 70000 of its own people killed etc. etc.
Almost no country is willing to help the Afghans except India. That's the kind of reputation they have - nobody likes them. Even we don't like them but we can't abandon them to kill each other off.
On top of it, we are accused by the Pakistanis, and Pakistani media of sponsoring terrorism in their country. That's very rich, and so damn convenient.
If Pakistan doesn't want terrorism on its western borders, perhaps it can work jointly with India, and help the Afghans settle down properly. Now that's a radical idea which I would definitely support.
What was India supposed to do? Let the Taliban kill more of our engineers and doctors?
The reason India had to deploy its own soldiers was because the government of Afghanistan is full of cheapskates. They will not spend a dime out of their own pockets to help the Indians trying to build their country.
I don't blame them. That country has been an economic basketcase for the last 100 years or so, always depending on foreigners for handouts.
All the Indian staff in Afghanistan are involved in humanitarian missions. We need them there so that in the event the Afghan warlords blow up another hospital or ambulance, those services can be quickly replenished.
Why don't the Pakistanis go there and help Afghans rebuild their lives with Pakistani taxpayer money? I would welcome it. That country should not be India's botheration. You guys love them more, so you take care of them. We'll be glad to recall all the Indians living in that *hole.
@Joe Shearer @Peshwa