Rapping for freedom and the end of communism in Vietnam

[NiceGuy]

OK , tell me when and where XI begged you guys to open the so called door.

OH , you find a way to contain us ,just ask US and VN to stop all relationship wt CN.

Then dont just pull back the oil rig and cancel the schedule like a coward . We almost stop all cheap relationship wt CN in the oil rig conflict

 

[Kyle Sun]

Then dont just pull back the oil rig and cancel the schedule like a coward . We almost stop all cheap relationship wt CN in the oil rig conflict

Oh my dear .
Then why your GV visit BJ and talk nothing about the conflict ?

We steal your island and shower your vessel , right ?

 

[gambit]

Dude this is no longer the 1980's. You are the only one on this forum that still speaks in these ideological terms of Leninisme or communism. No one else does that. Not the Vietnamese members, not the Chinese members not the other American members. South Vietnam lost the war you need to get over it. "Your Vietnam" is not going to come back.

Son...In terms of historical scale, the Cold War ended just last week, or at best last month. Marx-ism is being revised by its believers in trying to rehabilitate its cracked image. No different in China...

China tells journalists to learn 'Marxist news values'| Reuters

China ordered its journalists on Saturday to learn "Marxist news values" and uphold the principles of news as prescribed by the ruling Communist Party, the latest step in President Xi Jinping's crackdown on the media.

As for South Viet Nam, it is less about South Viet Nam than it is about an unnecessary war that China greatly contributed in starting. So take your own advice, China, Marx-ism failed and your country is proof of that failure. Get it over it. Let the journalists be real journalists.

 

[NiceGuy]

Oh my dear .
Then why your GV visit BJ and talk nothing about the conflict ?

We steal your island and shower your vessel , right ?

You vessel got ramped and showered, too and they were too scared and begged for pulling back when seeing our frogmen around

 

[Kyle Sun]

You vessel got ramped and showered, too and they were too scared and begged for pulling back when seeing our frogmen around

On my dear GOD .Your frogmen must be real frog. GOD of the SCS.

You are Bullying us !

 

[Carlosa]

I would use the word 'truce' instead.

Change is inevitable and the commies knows it. Right now, the commies are taking the pragmatic path -- the allowance of greater economic freedom. Ideologically, just like the ChiComms, they know the -isms of Marx, Lenin, and Mao are done for, at least for this hundred yr period, anyway. Tossing bread in front of the people and temporarily their minds will be focused on the bread and their physical hunger.

So for now, while the economic bread from the likes of Intel, Samsung, and Sony are keeping the Vietnamese people occupied, the country's top minds are busy wondering what to do next, not about keeping the Communist Party in power when they know this -ism is nothing but an empty vessel that no one want to fill, but about where to take the Vietnamese other than the -ism of the Americans. The sad part is that there are no other alternatives. Everyone know of the other empty vessel -- socialism with Chinese characteristics. What will we see next -- socialism with Vietnamese characteristics ? It will be an even greater joke for both peoples.

Like it or not, the best path for true Vietnamese independence and prosperity is to break away from the failed -isms of Marx, Lenin, and Mao, and if not the adoption of the bicameral political system of the US, then at least the parliamentary model that most democracies are using today. Let the Chinese be two-faced about their system. The world snickers behind their palms at the Chinese leaders whenever they changes from the coat and tie to the Mao suit and even ordinary Chinese rolled their eyes at the costume changes in the Chinese political theater. A Viet Nam with the parliamentary democratic system and capitalism will go the way of Japan, South Korea, and Singapore. The Chinese are already contemptuous of those countries anyway, so what does Viet Nam have to lose ?

You are probably right, I would say they are trying to follow the chinese model and hoping that it will last long enough, western style economy with the autocratic political system of the VCP. In China the system is probably going to last longer since the chinese are a lot better than Vietnam at managing the economy, the SOESs, etc and produce results that people can see and at the same time, their control of power and suppression is more comprehensive. So in theory they are right to expect that it can last a while.
That being said, the 28 trillion usd housing bubble and the big stock market bubble that they have now, can easily collapse the economy and then all the bets are off.

In Vietnam, without foreign investment, the country would be back to where it was in 1990.
2014 exports were 150 billion usd, of that, 112 billion from foreign companies, that says everything. The state based part of the economy on the other hand, only produced a 69 billion usd debt. Foreign investment is what keeps the country afloat even that the system always manages to find ways to mess things up a bit. The regime in Vietnam has a gentler face than in China and overall, Vietnam is more open than China and that also contributes to a more sustainable situation, but long term, something has to give.

It will be interesting to watch and see what happens in both Vietnam and China.

I find the Vietnamese very interesting. On the one hand they hate our guts but at the same time they have taken over large elements of our culture, language and these days even our form of political system not to mention our economic model. They are in many ways a mini China. Asians in that sense are strange people. Countries like China and Vietnam but also Japan have a lot of similarities. Yet we hate each other. While the same can be said about India and Pakistan. While China and Pakistan seem to be getting along quite well and the same goes for Japan and India.

I'm also surprised by the hostility between Vietnamese and Indonesian members here

As a foreigner living in Vietnam that also has being going to China extensibly for the last 12 years, I can say that there is no country as similar to China as Vietnam, by far. Everything is very similar, the people are very similar, even the same bad habits. They are not the same, but almost the same in so many ways. If China were to be smarter, they would make Vietnam their best ally and treat them like the little brother, but the problem is, big brother always try to control or conquer the little brother, so in practice things don't workout as well as it should.

The thing between Vietnamese and Indonesian members is mostly related to some very competitive members that can't relate to others without the thing about "I'm better than you", its a very tribal way of thinking, but we do live in a very tribal world.

 

[fadine]

I've said many times already, if Chinese stop to domineer, and return the islands to Vietnam, Vietnam will be a great ally of the China. But unfortunately, Americans have successfully used greed of China because Chinese people alway wish to use the old tactic to gradually swallow the world. Now Americans struggling against processes of the "Chinese swallow the world".

Ultimately every sincere suggestion here is nonsense.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Chinese and Vietnamese are different in fundamental notions of value.

Chinese don't give a fk what others think about them while Vietnamese care a great deal. Vietnamese and Japanese are similar in that respect. Chinese also have guilt culture, while Vietnamese and Japanese have shame culture.

Vietnamese-Chinese and Vietnamese are also very different. Vietnamese-Chinese that I know identify themselves as pureblooded Chinese that happen to be born in Vietnam.

 

[Carlosa]

Chinese and Vietnamese are different in fundamental notions of value.

Chinese don't give a fk what others think about them while Vietnamese care a great deal. Vietnamese and Japanese are similar in that respect. Chinese also have guilt culture, while Vietnamese and Japanese have shame culture.

Vietnamese-Chinese and Vietnamese are also very different. Vietnamese-Chinese that I know identify themselves as pureblooded Chinese that happen to be born in Vietnam.

Whatever, but what I said still applies, Viets are closer to chinese as no other. And I said, they are not the same, but almost the same in so many ways. I also see differences, but the similarities are quite amazing.

I know chinese-viets that see themselves as viets first. I guess there are both types and probably depends on for how many generations they have been in Vietnam or if they have married with the other side also.

Now in Thailand, on the other hand, all Thai-chinese that I know see themselves as chinese that happened to be born in Thailand.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Whatever, but what I said still applies, Viets are closer to chinese as no other. And I said, they are not the same, but almost the same in so many ways. I also see differences, but the similarities are quite amazing.

I know chinese-viets that see themselves as viets first. I guess there are both types and probably depends on for how many generations they have been in Vietnam or if they have married with the other side also.

Now in Thailand, on the other hand, all Thai-chinese that I know see themselves as chinese that happened to be born in Thailand.

If you have ever been in the US, you'd also find the curious phenomena of Vietnamese-Americans. Alot of the old school south Vietnamese refugees are pretty extreme. You can even see examples here right in this very forum. The new Vietnamese immigrants and students here, and especially the Chinese-Vietnamese, are much closer to Chinese with the exceptions of what I said about cultural values. That's because they don't have the chip on their shoulder of being penniless refugees and benefactors of a military dictatorship.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Whatever, but what I said still applies, Viets are closer to chinese as no other. And I said, they are not the same, but almost the same in so many ways. I also see differences, but the similarities are quite amazing.

I know chinese-viets that see themselves as viets first. I guess there are both types and probably depends on for how many generations they have been in Vietnam or if they have married with the other side also.

Now in Thailand, on the other hand, all Thai-chinese that I know see themselves as chinese that happened to be born in Thailand.

I have met some Chinese Vietnamese in the Chinese websites, they claimed that they took the pride of being Chinese because China is big and powerful and a country that they have the blood tie with, while Vietnam is weak and small, so being Vietnamese is nothing proud of.

When China versus any country, they will root for China first.

 

[Carlosa]

If you have ever been in the US, you'd also find the curious phenomena of Vietnamese-Americans. Alot of the old school south Vietnamese refugees are pretty extreme. You can even see examples here right in this very forum. The new Vietnamese immigrants and students here, and especially the Chinese-Vietnamese, are much closer to Chinese with the exceptions of what I said about cultural values. That's because they don't have the chip on their shoulder of being penniless refugees and benefactors of a military dictatorship.

I did live in the US also and yes, many of the Viets there, the older generation for the most part are quite extreme while the younger generation are more open minded by far.

Except for the political differences, there is really no reason for animosity between viets and chinese, its mainly an artificial situation really, but it does make a big difference anyway.

I have met some Chinese Vietnamese in the Chinese websites, they claimed that they took the pride of being Chinese because China is big and powerful and a country that they have the blood tie with, while Vietnam is weak and small, so being Vietnamese is nothing proud of.

When China versus any country, they will root for China first.

Well, you have to also consider that the ones that go to the chinese websites are the ones that are more in tune with their chinese side obviously.

I can't say how most of the chinese-viets think, I only know one family so my experience is limited and my chinese-viet friend is married to a viet so obviously she is very open minded even that she goes back to china often to see her family.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Well, you have to also consider that the ones that go to the chinese websites are the ones that are more in tune with their chinese side obviously.

I can't say how most of the chinese-viets think, I only know one family so my experience is limited and my chinese-viet friend is married to a viet so obviously she is very open minded even that she goes back to china often to see her family.

Many Viets of the Hoa descent will have a such mentality; the stronger China got, the more they are clinging to their Chinese identity.

This represents a significant portion of Hoa, that's why the Vietnamese government never trusted them.

China is a country that they share the blood tie with, meanwhile it is becoming a superpower, so most people with the Chinese blood will love to take part of the pride.

 

[Carlosa]

Many Viets of the Hoa descent will have a such mentality; the stronger China got, the more they are clinging to their Chinese identity.

This represents a significant portion of Hoa, that's why the Vietnamese government never trusted them.

China is a country that they have the blood tie with, meanwhile it is becoming a superpower, so most people with the Chinese blood will love to take part of the pride.

That's probably right, I just don't know enough about chinese-viets, but I do remember reading that many of them were expelled from Vietnam after the 1979 war, so its probably the ones that you mentioned. I had casual contact with a number of chinese-viets in Saigon and they seem to be pretty well integrated, but I don't really know how they think. Those didn't have issues because of the china-viet conflict.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

That's probably right, I just don't know enough about chinese-viets, but I do remember reading that many of them were expelled from Vietnam after the 1979 war, so its probably the ones that you mentioned. I had casual contact with a number of chinese-viets in Saigon and they seem to be pretty well integrated, but I don't really know how they think. Those didn't have issues because of the china-viet conflict.

Here is the comment from a Viet Hoa to @NiceGuy in a Chinese website.

haaa ha ha
so! what can vietnam make ? nuoc mam (fish sauce) only LOL HAAA HA HA ,
you stupid NiceGuy（越南）, CHINA made a lot of rockets successfully fly up in to space, do you think all rockets has no 发动机 you stupid NiceGuy（越南）you are a ****'n no brain you stupid NiceGuy（越南）,maybe you drunk a lot of nuoc mam(fishsauce) haaa ha ha but WHAT I REALLY KNOW IS TRUE ,VIETNAM CAN INVENT NOTHING . LOL HAAA HA HA HA I CAN'T REALLY STOP LAUGHING LOL