Rank of Countries by Space Technology (REQUEST!)

[Martian2]

1. Lets see China continue to do that for the next 5 years, let alone 20, let alone 40, then we'll talk about reliability. As it is this isn't a contest, both the US and the USSR/Russia have decades more experience paving the path for the other powers in both design and protocol where none before existed, and thus are considered more reliable, while China is still the relative newcomer standing upon the shoulders of giants. China might prove to be more reliable eventually, but it isn't proven yet and their record is still too new to decide when compared to the US and Russia. This is much the same argument used by Boeing vs SpaceX when it comes to reliability, but you know what? It's true.

2. Russia's manned capability is considered the most reliable in the world. It's not difficult to see why with its decades long record and few failures. Of course it isn't hard for it to be considered most reliable since it is essentially a multiple decades old unchanged design, but the maxim 'if it aint broke dont fix it' applies.

Russian unmanned capability is good imo, better than most, but when it comes to exploration Russia seems to have all the bad luck, especially with Mars.

3. US manned capability to LEO before the end of the Shuttle was pretty much second to none in capability, but the costs of the program and bad management have left the US without a manned capability for the moment. Under your guidelines this means the US isn't a premier space power, but that utterly ignores how its achievements in unmanned spaceflight outclasses all the rest.

It can be argued convincingly imo that getting multiple rovers successfully to Mars in working condition, a working probe beyond the edge of the solar system, and a space plane with a staying capability exceeding a year that is able to change orbit and land successfully back on earth are more effective demonstrations of 'space capability' and 'technology' then taking a man to LEO orbit, especially when the country you demote has done it before, sent a man further than anyone else, and has concrete plans to have the capability to send men to LEO again (if not farther, which is likely), by the end of the decade. This may or may not actually happen, but historically there is a great chance it will, the US has been without manned capability before.

If you are adamant that for any country to be a premier space power, they are required to have manned capabilities TODAY at this exact moment without regard to flight history, achievement history, ungoing unmanned operations, or future plans, then yes, the US is not a 'premier space power' under your definition today.

I am of the opinion that many would disagree with such a pedantic view though,

and I am of the opinion that it is so narrowly defined as to hold no meaning.

It should rather be measured in the space of years, if not half-decades rather than the moment.

I think most people are intelligent enough to realize that manned spaceflight capability "today" means any time in the next one or two years. I clarified that for you, because you're dumb enough to think that "today" means literally in the next 24 hours.

The simple fact of the matter is that if a country cannot send an astronaut into space and another country possesses the ability then the incapable country must be ranked lower. This is common sense and fair.

When a country is paying someone else exorbitant prices for seats to fly into space, it is not the world's premier space power. To claim otherwise is laughable. We know the U.S. won't have manned space flight capability until at least 2016 and possibly much longer than that. Face it, the U.S. has no manned space flight capability for the indefinite future (see citations below).

You go ahead and try to explain to an American kid that China sends taikonauts into space on Chinese spaceships. However, American astronauts have to hitch a ride on Russian spaceships. And yet, you think America should rank ahead of China as a space power. The kid will think you're nuts.

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No U.S. manned spaceflight capability through 2016 and possibly much longer

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303982504576428080248680032.html

"Jul 7, 2011 – So far, NASA has purchased 46 seats for Soyuz flights through 2016, and it wants to buy more. NASA officials attribute the price hikes to ..."

http://science.slashdot.org/story/11/03/15/1221235/nasa-buys-12-seats-on-soyuz

"Mar 15, 2011 – jamax noted that NASA has announced the purchase of 12 seats on Soyuz for 2014 to 2016. The price tag was $753 million — just a stitch over ..."

 

[anon45]

I think most people are intelligent enough to realize that manned spaceflight capability "today" means any time in the next one or two years. I clarified that for you, because you're dumb enough to think that "today" means literally in the next 24 hours.

So why don't you expand that out to 5 years, hell why not 10? You are being absolutely arbitrary with your time periods. Hell you are being absolutely arbitrary with your classifications of a 'premier space power'.

The simple fact of the matter is that if a country cannot send an astronaut into space and another country possesses the ability then the incapable country must be ranked lower. This is common sense and fair..

Considering the other capabilities the US has of which ive already mentioned regarding space technologies, I call bs.

When a country is paying someone else exorbitant prices for seats to fly into space, it is not the world's premier space power. To claim otherwise is laughable. We know the U.S. won't have manned space flight capability until at least 2016 and possibly much longer than that. Face it, the U.S. has no manned space flight capability for the indefinite future (see citations below)..

When that country has rovers on mars while sending another rover to mars, probes beyond the edge of the solar system, etc etc when no other country has such ongoing achievements while having a history of manned space capability and a stated temporary gap for manned capability, it is laughable to claim they are not the premier space power. It is further laughable to use a WSJ article to justify your ridiculous switch between 2016 and 'indefinite' Of which you have no proof, and you know it.

You go ahead and try to explain to an American kid that China sends taikonauts into space on Chinese spaceships. However, American astronauts have to hitch a ride on Russian spaceships. And yet, you think America should rank ahead of China as a space power. The kid will think you're nuts.

Alright, go ahead and explain to the Director of NASA and the top brass of the airforce, that despite the multitude of unmatched achievements, that are ongoing, NASA and the airforce have been deemed overall less technologically capable than the CNSA because of their 5-10 year gap in manned spaceflight in order to transition from a horribly inefficient (though extra capable) LEO bus to a rocket designed to go beyond earth orbit while commercial companies compete to take over the 'routine' task of LEO shuttling. You would be laughed out of their offices .

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No U.S. manned spaceflight capability through 2016 and possibly much longer

Shuttle's Last Flight Leaves Russia With Space Monopoly - WSJ.com

"Jul 7, 2011 – So far, NASA has purchased 46 seats for Soyuz flights through 2016, and it wants to buy more. NASA officials attribute the price hikes to ..."

NASA Buys 12 Seats On Soyuz - Slashdot

"Mar 15, 2011 – jamax noted that NASA has announced the purchase of 12 seats on Soyuz for 2014 to 2016. The price tag was $753 million — just a stitch over ..."

Here you go, a far better source of space news than WSJ

NASASpaceFlight.com

There's even a forum so you can keep updated with the latest news instead of using a year old article from a a site focusing on economic news.

There you will find interested hobbyists to NASA professionals to watchers of the many different space programs, China included.

: retort to childish ad-hominem deleted:

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Check this one out please:

Futron Corporation Releases Fourth Annual Space Competitiveness Index (SCI)
Aug 15, 2011

1. USA
2. Europe
3. Russia
4. China
5. Japan
6. india
7. Canada
8. S Korea
9. Israel
10 Brazil


Press Releases

Oh , just missed top 5 .

 

[anon45]

The basic gist is focusing on anything to the exclusion of all else past or present or future is foolishness and very obviously not objectivity.

 

[timetravel]

The most realistic list would be as below:

USA
Russia
EU
India
China
Japan

and the near future would be:

USA
Russia
India
EU
China
Japan

finally by 2035-40 the list would most probably be like:

India
Russia
USA
EU
China
Japan

Chinese are paid trolls on the internet. Realities are not what they can digest.

 

[Nair saab]

The most realistic list would be as below:

USA
Russia
EU
India
China
Japan

and future would be:


USA
Russia
India
EU
China
Japan

Chinese are paid trolls on the internet. Realities are not what they can digest.

Ohhh U Ranked India above China ... Just Wait for the &hit Storm ...

 

[Water Car Engineer]

The most realistic list would be as below:

USA
Russia
EU
India
China
Japan

and the near future would be:

USA
Russia
India
EU
China
Japan

finally by 2035-40 the list would most probably be like:

India
Russia
USA
EU
China
Japan

Chinese are paid trolls on the internet. Realities are not what they can digest.

This has to be a joke.....

India hasn't even put a man into space yet. China, Russia, USA have.

 

[Bond]

Now wait for the same bullshit lengthy article again from Martian...

The basic gist is focusing on anything to the exclusion of all else past or present or future is foolishness and very obviously not objectivity.

 

[ThinkLogic]

He is more knowledgable than the rest of indian trolls put together with regard to space technology

Obviously! The Nobel Laureate or Trolling. He has more knowledge in trolling then the entire world put together...

My list is
1. USA
2. Russia
3. China [will become 2nd by 2020]
4. Europe [clubbed together because I do not know the individual contribution of the countries]
5. India
6. Japan

 

[SOHEIL]

1. IRAN
2. others

 

[Amolthebest]

I am not blind jingoist patriotic person. But when it comes to space program India is an ideal to launch space program despite all odds and minimum budget.Kudos to ISRO.

 

[Martian2]

FIVE Russian 2011 launch failures within one year show clear inferiority to Chinese launches

This is an easy evaluation. If you anti-Chinese numbskulls could only set aside your nationalism for one minute.

1. A comprehensive space power must have both a manned and unmanned space program. If you don't have either for the next many years then you do not have a capability in that category.

Only two countries have manned and unmanned space launch capabilities: China and Russia (Tier 1)

Other countries with only advanced unmanned space launch: US and EU (Tier 2)

2. In discriminating between China and Russia, we have to ask ourselves "what are space rockets used for?" An extremely important function is the launch of communication satellites. Next, we conduct an impartial comparison of China's DFH-4 and Russia's Strela-2M satellite bus/platform.

We notice the modern 15-year-lifetime 10,000-pound Chinese DFH-4 is decades ahead of Russia's 5-year-lifetime Strela-2M satellite platform. Therefore, it is obvious Chinese space satellite technology is way ahead of Russian space satellite technology.

3. In the last three years, China had a total of 1 1/2 launch failures. The Russians had five full failures in 2011 alone. Clearly, Chinese rocket launches are significantly more reliable than Russian rocket launches.

In conclusion, my evaluation process is completely objective and fair.

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Russia Botches Another Rocket Launch : Discovery News

"Russia Botches Another Rocket Launch
Analysis by Irene Klotz
Fri Dec 23, 2011 03:46 PM ET

Three hours before a new crew arrived at the International Space Station on Friday, bringing the outpost back up to full staff for the first time in months, Russia racked up its fifth launch accident within a year.

A Soyuz-2 rocket carrying a military communications satellite failed to reach orbit after blastoff from the Plesetsk space center in northern Russia. The botched launch is again due to an upper-stage engine problem.

Though the motor is different from the one used on the Soyuz rockets that fly Progress cargo and Soyuz capsules to the station, the trend is troubling.

"There are problems," Vladimir Popovkin, head of the Russian space agency Roscosmos, said through a translator at a press conference at the Russian Mission Control Center outside Moscow and broadcast on NASA Television following the arrival of the new space station crew.

"There is aging of many resources. We need to optimize everything. We need to modernize," Popovkin said.

"It’s also aging of human resources," he added. 'Given the troubles we had in the '90s, quite a lot of people left and nobody came to replace them.' (article continues)"

 

[timetravel]

This has to be a joke.....

India hasn't even put a man into space yet. China, Russia, USA have.

there are many things that China has not done.. Overall I would rate ISRO above.

No civilian casualties for ISRO.. ( the high civilian casualties itself shows the primitive nature of chinese space agency)

10 satellites in 1 go

Discovered water on mooon

So my Ranking Holds true for definitely.

 

[scrumpy]

An article on space capabilities and no mention of

1) The Voyager program
2) Hubble Space Telescope
3) ISS
4) Mir

 

[Martian2]

there are many things that China has not done.. Overall I would rate ISRO above.

No civilian casualties for ISRO.. ( the high civilian casualties itself shows the primitive nature of chinese space agency)

10 satellites in 1 go

Discovered water on mooon

Heaviest Indian satellite is only about 690kg. Chinese DFH-4 is 5,000kg.

What's wrong with you?

I've already explained that one Chinese DFH-4 5,000kg (or 10,000 pound) satellite outweighed your lightweight Indian high-school-project satellites by many many times. You cannot compare amateur Indian satellites to professional industrial-strength Chinese satellites.

Also, India didn't discover water on the Moon. That was a NASA detector, not Indian. You were just the mindless taxi service.

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India orbits 10 satellites in single launch | World | RIA Novosti

"India orbits 10 satellites in single launch
12:16 28/04/2008
NEW DELHI, April 28 (RIA Novosti) - India launched on Monday a PSLV-C9 rocket carrying 10 satellites, a record number for the country's space program, national television reported.

The Indian Space Research Organization (ISRO) carried out the launch from the Sriharikota island in the Bay of Bengal.

PSLV-C9, in its thirteenth flight, delivered into polar sun-synchronous orbit two domestic satellites and eight foreign spacecraft, including nanosatellites belonging to Canada, Germany, Denmark, Japan and the Netherlands.

India's 690-kg Cartosat-2A remote sensing satellite carried the latest panchromatic camera that can record images with spatial resolution of around one meter. The satellite can be maneuvered in orbit to facilitate the operation of the camera.

The second Indian spacecraft, an experimental 83-kg Mini Satellite (IMS-1) will be used for testing advanced technology in future launches.

Eight nanosatellites were built by foreign universities and research institutions specifically for the PSLV-C9 launch under a commercial agreement with Antrix Corporation. They weigh from 3 to 16 kilograms with a total weight of about 50 kg."

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http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/Mini-RF/multimedia/feature_ice_like_deposits.html

"Using data from a NASA radar that flew aboard India's Chandrayaan-1 spacecraft, scientists have detected ice deposits near the moon's north pole."