Rajputs, Jats and Gujjars

[El Sidd]

Now that we can agree on that national confusion, let me reiterate that removing it would be possible only if the OR is repealed. The OR itself has no grey areas, but the people do in their will and ability to implement it as intended. Only then would Pakistan be able to develop a robust national narrative. It is of course up to the people what they would like Pakistan to be.

Syed Sahab why do you have such hatred towards Objective Resolution? Did someone take your khums away or something?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Now that we can agree on that national confusion, let me reiterate that removing it would be possible only if the OR is repealed. The OR itself has no grey areas, but the people do in their will and ability to implement it as intended. Only then would Pakistan be able to develop a robust national narrative. It is of course up to the people what they would like Pakistan to be.

I've pointed out the lack of consensus on interpretations of Islam related to democracy, freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice from the very beginning. Not sure why it took you so long to realize that.

The OR has grey areas, such as the ones pointed out above. Even if the OR made no reference to Islam, there would be debate within Pakistani society over what exactly freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice meant, much as that social debate took place in the US (and continues to take place) over slavery, racism, individual rights etc despite an arguably clearer constitution.

 

[VCheng]

Syed Sahab why do you have such hatred towards Objective Resolution? Did someone take your khums away or something?

I have no hatred. I merely identify it as the root cause of what ails Pakistan today. I am immune from its effects.

I've pointed out the lack of consensus on interpretations of Islam related to democracy, freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice from the very beginning. Not sure why it took you so long to realize that.

The OR has grey areas, such as the ones pointed out above. Even if the OR made no reference to Islam, there would be debate within Pakistani society over what exactly freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice meant, much as that social debate took place in the US (and continues to take place) over slavery, racism, individual rights etc despite an arguably clearer constitution.

LOL. Pakistanis can figure out what exactly freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice mean, it is just that they cannot figure out how these are enunciated by Islam as ordained by the OR. The problem is not with the people, it is with what the OR says, and your convolutions can do nothing to avoid that conclusion, even with the inevitably expected whataboutery about USA.

 

[El Sidd]

I have no hatred. I merely identify it as the root cause of what ails Pakistan today. I am immune from its effects.

If you are immune to it, then how come its an ailment?

Aapse to hum zakaat lenge abhi.... itni jaldi bhi kia hai Syed Sahab

 

[VCheng]

If you are immune to it, then how come its an ailment?

Aapse to hum zakaat lenge abhi.... itni jaldi bhi kia hai Syed Sahab

It is an ailment for Pakistan, not me. And here I though I owe my zakat to Allah and not the likes of you.

 

[El Sidd]

It is an ailment for Pakistan, not me. And here I though I owe my zakat to Allah and not the likes of you.

Ryasat lelegi aapse warna bolegi aap ryasat se takra rahe hain or phir dama dam mast qalander na hojae..

 

[VCheng]

Ryasat lelegi aapse warna bolegi aap ryasat se takra rahe hain or phir dama dam mast qalander na hojae..

No takrao here. Ryasat zindabad!

 

[El Sidd]

No takrao here. Ryasat zindabad!

to phir Zakaat jama kara den zara beghair chik chik kiye.....

 

[VCheng]

to phir Zakaat jama kara den zara beghair chik chik kiye.....

In Ramadhan, InshaAllah.

 

[El Sidd]

In Ramadhan, InshaAllah.

Why Ramadan? It is due start of fiscal year not start of fasting month Syed Sahab...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

LOL. Pakistanis can figure out what exactly freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice mean, it is just that they cannot figure out how these are enunciated by Islam as ordained by the OR. The problem is not with the people, it is with what the OR says, and your convolutions can do nothing to avoid that conclusion.

Pakistanis would interpret those principles based on their religious values regardless of whether the constitution specifically referred to Islam or not. A nation and its legislature largely represents the views of the citizenry. The issue is not so much the reference to Islam in the constitution, but the influence (coercive and non-coercive) of the Mullah/religious right in preventing legal reform or pushing through regressive laws.

There have been various initiatives to reform things like the Blasphemy Laws, women's rights, child marriages etc, but it is the push back from enough elected legislators (who claim cultural and religious norms as justification) that has stalled these reforms. The issue here isn't the reference to religion in the constitution, it is the out-sized influence the religious right exercises in society.

 

[VCheng]

Pakistanis would interpret those principles based on their religious upbringing regardless of whether the constitution specifically referred to Islam or not. A nation and its legislature largely represents the views of the citizenry. The issue is not so much the reference to Islam in the constitution, but the influence (coercive and non-coercive) of the Mullah/religious right in preventing legal reform or pushing through regressive laws.

There have been various initiatives to reform things like the Blasphemy Laws, women's rights, child marriages etc, but it is the push back from enough elected legislators (who claim cultural and religious norms as justification) that has stalled these reforms. The issue here isn't the reference to religion in the constitution, it is the out-sized influence the religious right exercises in society.

The real issue is not that the Constitution makes a "reference to Islam", it is that it makes religion the business of the State, and that is the fatal flaw originating in the OR. You are correct that the people are indeed religious (and it is their right as a personal matter), but do note that it is religion as a duty of the State that empowers the mullah brigade to the extent that we can see these days after decades of such nourishment.

Hence you are absolutely wrong in saying that the issue here is the "reference to religion" in the Constitution. The "out-sized influence the religious right exercises in society" is the result of what the Constitutions formulates to enforce religion as the business of the State based on the OR, and not the cause of Pakistan's national confusion about its identity.

Why Ramadan? It is due start of fiscal year not start of fasting month Syed Sahab...

Just a tradition, and easy enough to remember.

 

[El Sidd]

Just a tradition, and easy enough to remember.

Syed Sahab Ramadan me Musalman hue they kia? Chalen jab ryasat maange forun adaa kardijiyega warna ryasat se takranay kay zumray me ajaega

 

[VCheng]

Syed Sahab Ramadan me Musalman hue they kia? Chalen jab ryasat maange forun adaa kardijiyega warna ryasat se takranay kay zumray me ajaega

Jee bilkul waada raha. Timely payment and no takrao.

 

[El Sidd]

Jee bilkul waada raha. Timely payment and no takrao.

raseeden bhi jama karke rakhiyega...ye na ho kay koi raseed iran se kubbi yadev kay paas se nikal aye apki....