RAFALE VS F-16 BLOCK52+

[SQ8]

Upgrade: 32 Falcon STAR kits for original Peace Gate I aircraft, 35 MLU kits ordered, with 11 more MLU kits optional. 4 F-16A/B being upgraded in the U.S., delivery expected December 2011, 2-3 F-16A/B being upgraded at Turkish Aerospace Industries from February 2011, remaining aircraft to be upgraded at PAC Kamra by TAI personnel. 10 more MLU kits ordered on 29 July 2011.

F-16C/D: Peace Drive I contract for 12 F-16C and 6 F-16D Block 52+ with F100-PW-229 engines, signed 30 September 2006. First batch (two F-16D, one F-16C) landed at PAF Base Shahbaz on 26 June 2010, 3 delivered in October, 6 in November and final batch of 6 aircraft delivered in December 2010. Agreement signed in March 2010 with United States for an additional 14 F-16s to be delivered by December 2012.

All MLU jets have matching avionics to the Block-52 aircraft...
The only difference being that the Block 52 aircraft have the ITT AIDEWS internal and extra range due to CFT's.

 

[The enlightened]

F-16 blk-52 vs Rafale is truly a case of which pilot exploits his aircraft better. Rafale is definitely a very good platform and any Air Force flying it would find it to be very good, but so is the case with the F-16. In almost every Air force where the F-16 has been inducted, it has been found to be a better all rounder than most other dedicated platforms. There is no significant "generational" gap here to be talked about between these two platforms contrary to what some post here. Obviously in the Pakistan-India case, the quantity of the two platforms in use is a factor as well.

Not really.
Especially not if we are talking about the Rafale F3+ which the IAF will be getting.
As far as AF's with F16, There is no AF in the world which has both F16 and Rafale. So it doesn't matter[in this regard] as to how better it is than other aircrafts in it's company. Rafale has excellent sensor fusion, 5[sup]th[/sup] Gen passive sensors & avionics. So I think that there is quite some 'generational gap' here.

 

[DARKY]

Not really.
Especially not if we are talking about the Rafale F3+ which the IAF will be getting.
As far as AF's with F16, There is no AF in the world which has both F16 and Rafale. So it doesn't matter[in this regard] as to how better it is than other aircrafts in it's company. Rafale has excellent sensor fusion, 5[sup]th[/sup] Gen passive sensors & avionics. So I think that there is quite some 'generational gap' here.

Yes Rafale is at least half generation ahead of F-16 block52.
AESA,
Supercruising engines,
Sensor Fusion,
Advanced protection suite,
Better Passive sensors,
Better weapon package..

All in all Rafale stands a better Chances of survival among rest of the planes participating in an India-Pakistan conflict.

 

[PakShaheen79]

In Pak-India scenario,

I think number gap is so huge that it is futile to even discuss both planes in this particular context. On a pure technological basis, I think Rafale has some innovative technologies but one cannot ignore the adaptability new tech (like AESA) in F-16 as well plus AIM-120C5 coupled with EW suit of Falcon made them pretty scary adversary for any other fighter (except 5th Gen) to counter. Pilot training and over all tactics will determine the final output. In a one-to-one engagement it can be anyone's day but again in context of PAF and IAF, I would reiterate that there must be no comparison between the two as both will be fielded with a decisive numerical edge to Rafale, unless PAF acquire atleast 4 more squadrons of Block-52s ( Which i will never support).

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Once the MLU are complete the Pakistani F16 MLU block C/D are definitely on part with the French experimental plane which has not customer history

46 Modernized in Turkey , fighters with brand new product parts and enhancements
36 Brand New F16 Block 52+ LEVEL -

A True force to be recokoned with

 

[Edevelop]

First there is thread name – Su-30MKI VS F-16 Block 52

Then another thread name – Mig-29SMT VS F-16 Block 52

Now Rafale VS F-16 Block 52……..

F-16 Block 52 going to handle how many Indian jets?

We have been around with F-16s from early 80s. Pilots have learned the ins and out of the aircraft
.
Note here that PAF pilots have participated in Soviet-Afghan War (Downed Su-24, Su-25) War on terrorism (Air to Ground Targets), India-Pakistan conflicts (chasing Mig-29s, Su-30s, and Mirage 2000), Red Flag Exercise (USAF F-15s, F-18, F-22), RAF (Downed Eurofighter Typhoon), China-Pak Exercise (Possibly with J-10, J-11), Saudi-Pak Exercise (F-15, Eurofighter, Tornado)

I hope you understand now why we compare our F-16 with Indian Jets. Indians keep changing their aircrafts, and lol, we are learning from our experiences...

 

[Donatello]

I wonder what happened to the cleaning up campaign by the MODs.



This thread is pretty much the best target rich environment they'll get.

 

[IndianTiger]

Are yar, kya thread hai, Pakistani has few f16, and they start comparing them with any superior fighter, Its ok If you are comparing f16 with mirage but please Rafale and Eurofighters are different ball game. sometime people publish false stories about victory of f16 against Eurofighter.

---------- Post added at 08:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 PM ----------

We have been around with F-16s from early 80s. Pilots have learned the ins and out of the aircraft
.
Note here that PAF pilots have participated in Soviet-Afghan War (Downed Su-24, Su-25) War on terrorism (Air to Ground Targets), India-Pakistan conflicts (chasing Mig-29s, Su-30s, and Mirage 2000), Red Flag Exercise (USAF F-15s, F-18, F-22), RAF (Downed Eurofighter Typhoon), China-Pak Exercise (Possibly with J-10, J-11), Saudi-Pak Exercise (F-15, Eurofighter, Tornado)

I hope you understand now why we compare our F-16 with Indian Jets. Indians keep changing their aircrafts, and lol, we are learning from our experiences...

Reference please.

 

[The enlightened]

Are yar, kya thread hai, Pakistani has few f16, and they start comparing them with any superior fighter, Its ok If you are comparing f16 with mirage but please Rafale and Eurofighters are different ball game. sometime people publish false stories about victory of f16 against Eurofighter.

It's OK.
We are on Pakistan Defence Forum.
This is the least we can do as guests here.

 

[SQ8]

Are yar, kya thread hai, Pakistani has few f16, and they start comparing them with any superior fighter, Its ok If you are comparing f16 with mirage but please Rafale and Eurofighters are different ball game. sometime people publish false stories about victory of f16 against Eurofighter.

---------- Post added at 08:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:08 PM ----------



Reference please.

Why dont you search for it..
nobody is shoving it down your throat..
have a doubt.. search for it.
Otherwise.. dont believe it..
and Shut the heck up instead of squawking the same tune like a parrot.

 

[nomi007]

akela f-16 kitnu ko deal kare ga

 

[Zabaniyah]

puri iaf ko after all vo paf ka f16 jo hai

if we even go and buy f22's you still would find somehow how f16 is superior to it

I don't think anyone ever said that.

Some of you guys are having a very simplistic view of how the Rafale is superior to the F-16. And I don't mean mere technical data or having AESA in the future.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Please elaborate how 126-200 Rafale not superior to 80 F-16 block 52

It takes time to build a hi-tech aircraft. Imagine building 126-200 of them.

The Rafale does not have AESA or fires the Meteor yet. So that'll also take time.

Then there's also the issue of infrastructure and logistical support. There can be some issues there in the short term.

Combine all that, and you'll realize that takes time to adapt to a completely new plane in service.

And not only that, not all of them will be stationed in Kashmir. A chunk of them will be based possibly in NE India and other parts of the large country.

Supporting them along with the appropriate infrastructure does play a role in whatever geographic region you station them, or transfer them.

I find it a bit misleading when people say "oh look we have this many Flankers and this many this and that and Pakistan has only 18 F-16 Block 52+s. They don't need to worry, they are already so screwed".

Does it sound misleading? Yes it does.

And on the issue of the F-16...why leave the PAF behind? Why leave the F-16 behind? Did it not go through many developments ever since its inception?

Can they not order additional F-16s? Or even FC-20s? And please, do not say that FC-20 is a piece of crap since we don't even know what it is. Is it a J-10? J-10A? J-10B? Something else? We don't know anything. So best not the jump into conclusions.

p.s.- Don't bring man behind the machine theory

And you know how much that matters. Not saying Indian pilots are inferior. But, they have learned to fear the PAF in the past

---------- Post added at 04:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------

isnt it amazing how we can compare f16 of 80's to these new birds the best they can compare to is mig 29 which are upgraded and mirage 2000

Oh do do!

 

[Manticore]

'compare' and 'quantify' a ''generation gap'' in different aspects of the fighters ,instead of posting oneliners issueing your final sentence

aerodynamics , roles , avionics , thrust to wt , bvr , time of development , time for induction & training etc

you can borrow f16 mlu specs for comparison from here
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...6-mlu-specifications-36-blk-52-prospects.html

I started this thread to post the results of some exercises in the general defence section and now if people wish to continue this thread , i would like a good discussion

 

[niaz]

It will be a blinkered eye approach to compare capabilities of Rafael and F-16 block 52. Theses aircrafts are a generation apart. F-16 C/D can be compared with the updated Mirage 2000. F-16 first flew in 1974. Rafael first flew in 1986. The design and technology in the Rafael is therefore about 10 years ahead of F-16.

No doubt in its latest variant F-16IN (offered to India), F-16 could match Rafael in performance. However the mere fact that IAF chose Rafael goes to show that for Indian requirements Rafael fared better. Besides, PAF F-16 C/D -52 are inferior to block 60 and F-16IN nicknamed ‘Super Viper’ by LM is an improved version of F-16-60.

We should never underestimate our adversary’s capabilities.