RAFALE VS F-16 BLOCK52+

[blackops]

You are getting funnier with every post............

no my friend she is just in a bit shock that india in not a walk over for the us like some other countries are she needs a reality check its obvious when a country is not ready to give us tot the codes of aesa radar which are very important its obvious that it will loose she should know how to digest facts which she cant

 

[dbc]

dbc arent you over reacting these days to sad about the fact that f16 and f18 lost

Did I say something wrong? IAF's performance in Kargil has nothing to do with the MMRCA, I would have made the same argument if the IAF down select included the F-16 / F-18.

 

[marcos98]

NATO flew 21,000 sorties over Yugoslavia and lost only 2 aircraft. India flew 500 sorties during Kargil and lost four not a combat record I'd boast about.

Oh come on!!
comparison between your supreme stealth technology versus our poor migs.....

 

[blackops]

Did I say something wrong? IAF's performance in Kargil has nothing to do with the MMRCA, I would have made the same argument if the IAF down select included the F-16 / F-18.

i just quoted one of your post nothing to do with your kargil post but with the previous one i hold americans in very high respect as they know to accept there defeat give praises where it is due but am sorry to say i cant see any of them in you these days ( after mmrca )

 

[marcos98]

I'm not sure you understood the Gerald Butler and 300 analogy, the movie is based on Battle of Thermopylae in which 300 Spartans led by King Leonidas prevented a 300,000 strong Persian force from marching into Greece. Similar success was achieved by Pakistani soldier(Northern Light Infantry) welding FIM-92A Stingers against the IAF in Kargil. The NLI neutralized the IAF within its own border by the skillful employment of FIM-92A Stingers in high altitude environment, this was the general conclusion of studies conducted by the several institutes including one conducted by the IAF.

It is widely recognized that light infantry supported by artillery is the preferred high altitude warfare strategy but it took several losses in both aircraft and personnel for the IAF to recognize the futility of its approach in Kargil. Then there is the IAF's poor choice of aircraft, MiG-21, MiG-27 and MI-17 all three were not equipped with flare dispenser the only available counter measure against the Stringer. The IAF was further hampered by incompatibility of communication gear, making coordination difficult and error prone. I could go on and on, but the bottom line is an air force is not assessed by the number and sophistication of the assets it has at its disposal but how these assets are employed in battle to achieve an objective. PAF vs IAF isn't a foregone conclusion simply because the IAF enjoys numerical superiority.

'High Altitude Warfare: The Kargil Conflict and The Future' by Marcus P. Acosta, Captain, United States Army. The thesis examines in detail the role played by NLI, Indian Army and Indian Air force and how Indian Army, Air force adopted to situation after some initial reverses. He also compares the Kargil Operation to Operation Anaconda launched by US forces in 2002 against Al Qaida in Shah-I-Kot valley in Afghanistn. According to him the Massed Artillay of Indian Army played a decisive role and lack of the same hampered US operation. Even the formidable USAF could not do much with its high-tech weapons on mountains.
http://www.nps.edu/academics/sigs/nsa/publicationsandresearch/studenttheses/theses/acosta03.pdf

 

[dbc]

Oh come on!!
comparison between your supreme stealth technology versus our poor migs.....

Do you know the circumstance behind the two NATO losses in Yugoslavia? I do, both instances required 'out the box' thinking on the part of the Serbians a great deal of patience and a lot of luck to accomplish. The Northern Light Infantry shot down IAF aircrafts with ease, do you think a competent air force will send unprotected (no flare dispensers) on CAS missions when the adversary is known to have one of the best man portable anti aircraft missile.

 

[dbc]

According to him the Massed Artillay of Indian Army played a decisive role and lack of the same hampered US operation. Even the formidable USAF could not do much with its high-tech weapons on mountains.

Yes and USAF recognized this and stayed out, read my earlier post.

It is widely recognized that light infantry supported by artillery is the preferred high altitude warfare strategy but it took several losses in both aircraft and personnel for the IAF to recognize the futility of its approach in Kargil.

 

[marcos98]

Do you know the circumstance behind the two NATO losses in Yugoslavia? I do, both instances required 'out the box' thinking on the part of the Serbians a great deal of patience and a lot of luck to accomplish. The Northern Light Infantry shot down IAF aircrafts with ease, do you think a competent air force will send unprotected (no flare dispensers) on CAS missions when the adversary is known to have one of the best man portable anti aircraft missile.

You do not think Kargil also was an asymmetric type of warfare,
The IAF did what was akin to searching a needle in haystack, with NLI entrenching themselves in pockets along the valley.
Excerpts from the same:

Restrictions imposed following early aircraft losses added
to the detrimental effects of the high altitude atmosphere. CAS missions became
hindrances to ground maneuver on several occasions, and delayed ground operations with
inaccurate strikes. The IAF adapted by targeting Pakistani supply lines and isolating their
forward positions. Mirage aircraft reduced NLI positions on Tiger Hill, destroying the
enemy’s battalion headquarters.
After initial setbacks, the role played by IAF was a decisive factor in Kargil. The Indian Army weathered early setbacks and achieved victory on the high
altitude battlefield. Massive artillery fire, combined with daring maneuver, overcame the challenge of defeating an enemy atop commanding heights.

 

[DARKY]

Do you know the circumstance behind the two NATO losses in Yugoslavia? I do, both instances required 'out the box' thinking on the part of the Serbians a great deal of patience and a lot of luck to accomplish. The Northern Light Infantry shot down IAF aircrafts with ease, do you think a competent air force will send unprotected (no flare dispensers) on CAS missions when the adversary is known to have one of the best man portable anti aircraft missile.

There was only one shot down and it was Mig 21.......as the pilot did the mistake of getting lower........that Mig 21 had gone to find the location of the Mig 27 pilot which reported engine failure and there was loss of radio link.......hence only one aircraft was shot down.......by the spartan stingers.......but where were those stingers when Mig 29 locked on to a F-16....I guess some traitor helped IAF in that case.

 

[Stealth IFV]

They are closing the production line and concentrate on F-35 is what last heard..

That doesn't negate the F-16's capabilities in any way against the Rafale. The Rafale doesn't have an AESA and it's not the USAF that will go to war with outdated F-16 variants, recipient nations who can't upgrade them on their own will suffer down the road. Same thing with Rafale, once it gets AESA then what? It will need new engines, avionics, airframe to get near the F-35 Lightening Deuce.

 

[Stealth IFV]

Thank God Canada didn't fall into the trap of ugprading our CF-18's for Super Hornets, we went straight for the F-35 II and we will be an untouchable air force much sooner than folks who are just now filling in empty spaces with Rafales and Vipers.

 

[SQ8]

Heck with flankers flying..........armed with R-73.........30 mm canon.....plus TVC.......I don't think even F-22 would get as close as 10 km.........never minds its Pakistan after all.

And you hit the pause button.. get up .. get a drink.. and resume playing Ace combat then.. eh buddy??

Are really trying to be like the other fanboy's??
If you really have read a lot.. then operational considerations may also have come into your thought process..
Yet somehow... you assume its all
" In this corner.. weighing in at 50000 pounds.. the su-30mki.. and this corner ....."

The jets were picked up way behind the border.."escorted" or tailed.. which ever soothes your needs.. all the way to kharian...a continuous lock kept on them... till they turned back.
If anything, one should take this as a sign of IAF professionalism that they stuck to their plan, knowing they were at a disadvantage and did not turn back till apparently they were ordered to abort... all the while maneuvering.

R-73 or not.. at <10km.. a Aim-9L rarely misses... even with Israeli, French or Martian jammers on board.
Ask a real pilot if you wish.. if us "fakir's" of the internet dont satisfy you.. I asked.. why dont you if you can.

 

[ace009]

Thank God Canada didn't fall into the trap of ugprading our CF-18's for Super Hornets, we went straight for the F-35 II and we will be an untouchable air force much sooner than folks who are just now filling in empty spaces with Rafales and Vipers.

You mean to say a Bird in the Bush is better than a Bird in Hand ... hmmm, why does that sound like wisdom?

 

[kingdurgaking]

Did I say something wrong? IAF's performance in Kargil has nothing to do with the MMRCA, I would have made the same argument if the IAF down select included the F-16 / F-18.

You know what in Kargil most of the weapons used where from American origin.. secondly F-16 birds where not part of the war... fearing Mig-29... We underestimated the seriousness initially but the skill employed by IAF and IA helped us win...

 

[Stealth IFV]

You mean to say a Bird in the Bush is better than a Bird in Hand ... hmmm, why does that sound like wisdom?

Our CF-18's are good enough to deal with any threat until we start receiving F-35's. Plus we have no enemies, and any attempt at terrorism in our country is nipped way early in the bud, during planning phases. Don't ask me how.