Rafale true force multiplier, a pair is equal to Six Mirage-2000s, deal with India soon: Dassault Ch

[GURU DUTT]

They are trying to bring it around $200 mil each piece

then it aint worth it getter go for FGFA & PAKFA

 

[chanikya]

then it aint worth it getter go for FGFA & PAKFA

yap bro!! but FGFA is not battle proven and, the price per aircraft is not just the acquisition cost of the platform, but also includes maintenance facilities, training of pilots and technicians, armaments and spares.

 

[anant_s]

saari baat chorro truth of pudding is in eating .... when the deal will be signed and rafales will land on an indian airstrip in IAF colours onli then im going to beleve .... but the question is whats its flyaway cost , cost of upgrades and cost of wepons .... even if you leave training and mantanence for now

with the way things have gone and the way things have been handled in media, probably we should count our Rafale chickens after they have hatched and remain around for atleast 1 year.
but that said, things are looking quite positive and may be by october end both parties would have something to cheer about.

 

[GURU DUTT]

yap bro!! but FGFA is not battle proven and, the price per aircraft is not just the acquisition cost of the platform, but also includes maintenance facilities, training of pilots and technicians, armaments and spares.

then why not F-35 as its battle prooven and will cost same as rafales

 

[chanikya]

then why not F-35 as its battle prooven and will cost same as rafales

Gud question!!, but F35 will take long time for deliveries and its not completly ready, even its source code is not ready and will only be ready by 2018, so its out of question

 

[majid mehmood]

even if india signs the deal now hey are going to get around it in 2018-2019 so it better for india to get fgfa
that why india should have patience
fgfa is alot better than rafale

 

[Skull and Bones]

then why not F-35 as its battle prooven and will cost same as rafales

Which battle has it participated in?

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

saari baat chorro truth of pudding is in eating .... when the deal will be signed and rafales will land on an indian airstrip in IAF colours onli then im going to beleve .... but the question is whats its flyaway cost , cost of upgrades and cost of wepons .... even if you leave training and mantanence for now

Me too. I will not believe until Refale will not be land at Ambala cantt. This "soon" is taking very long time.

 

[ravindra1455]

But India is only getting 36 Rafales, right?

@Hindustani78 @GURU DUTT @Ind4Ever @PARIKRAMA @Gabriel92



There are sufficient safeguards in place in all such deals, the Rafale purchase will not be the first multi-billion USD defence deal India has ever conducted with massive offset requirements, this will all be handled by the respective agencies in accordance with binding contracts. Sufficient securities will be in place to protect both sides.


This Rafale deal has made some people so paranoid.


I could tell you what I know to be true (i.e. 90-153 made in India) but I know the typical characters will come along and be skeptical so let's just wait and see what happens. I have had some pretty positive conversations with people I know in the defence industry in the past 36 hours so I am more than a little confident


It is clearly a very self-serving narrative and what can one expect, is new not always better when it comes to salesmen and their products? Anyway, it depends on what criteria Mr Trappier is using to quantify this 2 Rafales= 6 Mirage 2000s assessment. To be honest this is not entirely absurd given the substantial advances in technology that have been made in the past few decades since the Mirage 2000 entered service. The SPECTRA suite on the Rafales alone is a completely revolutionary system that rivals that of even 5th generation aircraft (F-22) let alone the M2K. Adding to that is the inherent hardware advantages the Rafale has over the single engined M2K (longer range, more manoeuvrable, higher weapons carrying capability etc) I had seen a Dassualt document a few years back that said 1 SQN alone could cover the entire airspace of India in an air policing role without any help from ground assets using AWACS support and its own sensors for situational awareness.

Having said that, it is all too easy to come up with specific statistics to back up almost any argument you want to make- as they say "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"



What's more important is:




This is going to cause a lot of heartburn to certain people.....

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Which battle has it participated in?

Financial Battle in Congress, LOL...

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Me too. I will not believe until Refale will not be land at Ambala cantt. This "soon" is taking very long time.

Will Rafales be based at Ambala or Gwalior?

yap bro!! but FGFA is not battle proven and, the price per aircraft is not just the acquisition cost of the platform, but also includes maintenance facilities, training of pilots and technicians, armaments and spares.

There is a fixed cost component which is part of it. Which remains quite fixed; whether it intake is 10 aircraft or 100 aircraft. If the quantity of aircraft increases, then that component is amortised over the larger numbers. In effect. the per aircraft cost will drop as the numbers increase. This increase in numbers is clearly being hinted at by Eric Trappier, the CEO of Dassault.

 

[Donatello]

So Dassault came out with the idea that HAL simply isnt the sort of partner they are looking for. Makes sense, Ive been saying that private firms need a lot more involvement in this deal if it is to truly benefit Indian R&D on a macro scale.

Unfortunately it is not easy to find such 'advanced partners' in developing countries......because the private sector was never part of the defense industry. They can privatize or float shares for HAL.....and at least get them a proper management.
French government doesn't poke it's nose in the affairs of Dassault......investors and shareholders do.

 

[surya kiran]

because the private sector was never part of the defense industry.

As usual, our Troll Tank Agent has no idea what he is talking about.

Enjoy......http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/IITM/Industry_compendium.pdf

 

[Ind4Ever]

But India is only getting 36 Rafales, right?

@Hindustani78 @GURU DUTT @Ind4Ever @PARIKRAMA @Gabriel92



There are sufficient safeguards in place in all such deals, the Rafale purchase will not be the first multi-billion USD defence deal India has ever conducted with massive offset requirements, this will all be handled by the respective agencies in accordance with binding contracts. Sufficient securities will be in place to protect both sides.


This Rafale deal has made some people so paranoid.


I could tell you what I know to be true (i.e. 90-153 made in India) but I know the typical characters will come along and be skeptical so let's just wait and see what happens. I have had some pretty positive conversations with people I know in the defence industry in the past 36 hours so I am more than a little confident


It is clearly a very self-serving narrative and what can one expect, is new not always better when it comes to salesmen and their products? Anyway, it depends on what criteria Mr Trappier is using to quantify this 2 Rafales= 6 Mirage 2000s assessment. To be honest this is not entirely absurd given the substantial advances in technology that have been made in the past few decades since the Mirage 2000 entered service. The SPECTRA suite on the Rafales alone is a completely revolutionary system that rivals that of even 5th generation aircraft (F-22) let alone the M2K. Adding to that is the inherent hardware advantages the Rafale has over the single engined M2K (longer range, more manoeuvrable, higher weapons carrying capability etc) I had seen a Dassualt document a few years back that said 1 SQN alone could cover the entire airspace of India in an air policing role without any help from ground assets using AWACS support and its own sensors for situational awareness.

Having said that, it is all too easy to come up with specific statistics to back up almost any argument you want to make- as they say "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"



What's more important is:




This is going to cause a lot of heartburn to certain people.....

Bhai come on . On what basis you keep believing in 150or 180 Rafales ?

For this to happened Rafale should decrease its greedy price tag as they say they are costly because of their omni role anc eqyals to 3 mirages . Thats not how a fighter jets will be bought by India . Final cost of 124 will cost us 20-25 billion dollars as years pass away the cost escalate gradually . I know a time when we made su30 for 35 mil . Its hardly a decade check the made in india su30 price .

I too wish our airforce to have costly toys like Rafales . But can we afford it ? We need to fill 300 plus migs . Not to mention we need to add another 300 or at least 200 new jets to fight two front war . Its better to go for 36 rafale and 80 pakfa along with tejas MK1-P . What am saying is practical , easily achievable because we can afford it . You might say PAKFA are costly too but they are futuristic and our only hope for 5 th generation fighter against chinese J20 and many more improved variants .

So lets not carried away . I like rafale M on vishal . But 36 or additional 18 are more than enough for IAF .

yap bro!! but FGFA is not battle proven and, the price per aircraft is not just the acquisition cost of the platform, but also includes maintenance facilities, training of pilots and technicians, armaments and spares.

We will hit two targets in one stone if we go for pakfa . We prepare our pilots for futuristic warfare , it solves our BVR problem against 5th generation fighter . Rafale more like a bomb trucks with sneak peek ability . But I dont think we will be able to solve BVR problem as more than a missile range RCS plays very important role . So against J20 our probable enemy we could confront Pakfa brings that AWE and Shock factor in to our enemy's heart .

 

[Donatello]

As usual, our Troll Tank Agent has no idea what he is talking about.

Enjoy......http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/IITM/Industry_compendium.pdf

Tell me which private sector company in India or anywhere in the developing world is capable of building an aircraft in the class of Rafale/Mirage2000 or heck, even be able to produce Engines/Components?

Please go ahead and enlighten us.