Rafale Out of MRCA Consequences FOR PAF

[Luftwaffe]

BaburCM Kuwait will never order Rafale, US has all its influence on Kuwait. Kuwait is operating 37-39 FA/18s US will simply offer upgrades + additional FA/18s with AESA radars that'll cost less infact way too less than what rafale fleet would cost. Plus Infrastructure of FA/18 is already in place for Kuwaitis..
except for other avionics from rafale the only thing that we can't get is its current radar its cost alone is too high..engines?how big is its engines JF-17 redesign or modifications would be required? there are many questions....

 

[Zarbe Momin]

SNECMA M53 is on Mirage 2000-5 and 2000-9 and Eurojet EJ200 on Eurofighter and both can be fitted on JF-17. No need of redesign & modifications with these engins on JF-17.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Zarbe Momin do you know the cost?? i rather invest that money in FC-20s than buying alone those engines...

 

[white_pawn]

Indian MRCA competition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maximum details about MRCAfor india

 

[Zob]

Indian MRCA competition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maximum details about MRCAfor india

white pawn wikipedia is not a good source but anyway.....

 

[white_pawn]

Ya i know but we can get some thing closer to the actual thing

 

[BaburCM]

I think you are underestimating the Rafale and it's capabilities a bit! It is very comparable with the F16 (dimensions, weight, roles), both are very maneuverable aircrafts with good strike capability. The reason why Rafale has problems is, that it's expensive and the high Euro compared to the low Dollar makes other fighters much more interesting. You have to take to account that not only the unit cost is higher, also French made weapons are much costlier than US made. That all and a 5. gen F35 that is nearly ready grabs away potential customers.

In case of MRCA I would say, wait a bit till there is an official announcement from the government, or Dassault that Rafale is out.

I've already mentioned the cost factor. I wouldn't be surprised if Rafale didn't make it. Fact remains that apart from Libya there is no other serious foreign air force out there that is willing to operate the Rafale. Rafale can be the best aircraft in the world, but it doesn't appeal to others. There can be nothing more shocking than Rafale being rejected on the grounds of not meeting qualitative requirements for the contract. The Indian Defence Ministry rejected the Rafale because it didn't meet the minimum performance requirements of the tender. That's one hell of a serious short coming. I'm sure the Defence Ministry has done its homework and know what they are talking about.

 

[BaburCM]

BaburCM Kuwait will never order Rafale, US has all its influence on Kuwait. Kuwait is operating 37-39 FA/18s US will simply offer upgrades + additional FA/18s with AESA radars that'll cost less infact way too less than what rafale fleet would cost. Plus Infrastructure of FA/18 is already in place for Kuwaitis..
except for other avionics from rafale the only thing that we can't get is its current radar its cost alone is too high..engines?how big is its engines JF-17 redesign or modifications would be required? there are many questions....

Well, even if one takes Kuwait out of the equation we still have UAE who have recently shown interest in the Rafale. Of course, it isn't any guarantee and I wouldn't be surprised that in the end the UAE also ended up not buying the Rafale. Still, some persuading might change their mind.

Well, like someone mentioned before, high tech has its price. If PAF wishes to go for top notch in a short period of time it will have to make cost sacrifices. There is no way round it. However, the cost factor can be partially compensated by attaining a substantial amount of ToT which would help the domestic aviation industry.

On the other hand, PAF would do wise by having a mix of mid and high end Thunders. That way the cost factor can be curbed. There has been talk of an improved version of the Thunder. The expensive engine and radar upgrades can be considered for the improved version which in turn can be inducted as an elite squadron.

Currently, PAF doesn't need such big ticket purchases in my opinion. Neither does it have the resources nor the need. I've already pointed out that PAF would do wise by focusing on the production and induction of the JF-17. Let's first get the production assembly rolling. First let's start off by inducting the 50 odd JF-17s with RD-93s and KLJ-7 radars. That would be a huge leap forward and a massive learning curve for the domestic industry. Let's in the meanwhile also wait for the development on the Chinese and Russian engines. The WS-13 is supposed to be in an advanced stage and the promised improved RD-93B is a very bright prospect for the JF-17.

Secondly, let's wait and focus on the FC-20 which will be a very valuable addition to PAF. In fact, I believe that the FC-20 will suffice PAFs requirements and there will be no need for another air superiority fighter. The FC-20 is undergoing incremental upgrades and is currently already comparable to the latest Block of the F-16 according to highly placed Chinese officials. The FC-20 is only going to improve and get better.

Not to mention, the new F-16s which would be icing on top of the cake if we were to get them. The latest F-16s will serve as a learning platform. It will boost the JF-17 project and PAF is going to learn and extract the look, feel and possibly tech from this battle proven platform. PAFs goal would be achieved if they were to get the JF-17s on par with the latest F-16s.

 

[sancho]

Fact remains that apart from Libya there is no other serious foreign air force out there that is willing to operate the Rafale.

That's not right, at the moment Rafale is participating in Greece, Switzerland and with the close ties that both government has should be the frontrunner in Brazil. Also UAE is really interested and ready to buy it, only problem is the engine and that Dassault must find someone who buys Mirage 2000-9 from UAE back. Like you said Libya shown interest and also Quatar. The problem for Dassault is that only Brazil would buy a larger number (40 up to 100 I've heard). So there are some chances, but the best for them would clearly be India (large numbers)!

There can be nothing more shocking than Rafale being rejected on the grounds of not meeting qualitative requirements for the contract. The Indian Defence Ministry rejected the Rafale because it didn't meet the minimum performance requirements of the tender. That's one hell of a serious short coming. I'm sure the Defence Ministry has done its homework and know what they are talking about.

As I said, better wait till that is confirmed, because neither Dassaullt nor Indian MoD did that.

 

[BaburCM]

^^ Very well, let's wait and see. Nothing is confirmed not even the claims that you are making. Everything is still in process.

 

[maverick2009]

For All MRCA tenders an order of 126 fighters in a intense competition like that FOR THE IAF is a " Huge rubber stamp of approval" from one of the largest air forces in the world.

I genuinely believe who ever wins MRCA will have a major coup and a real shot in the arm for their product.

The french really need to learn the way the Americans PROMOTE their products. Despite F16 & F18 being only early 4 generation fighters and at least 10 years behind in generation to both Rafale & Typhoon (4++) fighters the Yanks have takien the lead to win MRCA thru hardnose marketing & over promising.

Some of these promising require Pentagon approval but it did not stop them.

 

[mean_bird]

As I said, better wait till that is confirmed, because neither Dassaullt nor Indian MoD did that.

^^ Very well, let's wait and see. Nothing is confirmed not even the claims that you are making. Everything is still in process.

Reuters has it, Wall street Journal has it , France24 has it as do many other papers. I don't think these would be talking on made-up stuff.

UPDATE 1-France's Dassault out of India fighter deal | Industries | Industrials, Materials & Utilities | Reuters

EuroInvestor.co.uk - France's Dassault Rafale out of India fighter deal

Boeing Article Page - USATODAY.com

France 24 | French aircraft Rafale suffers another blow | France 24

 

[Screaming Skull]

For All MRCA tenders an order of 126 fighters in a intense competition like that FOR THE IAF is a " Huge rubber stamp of approval" from one of the largest air forces in the world.

I genuinely believe who ever wins MRCA will have a major coup and a real shot in the arm for their product.

This is a very valid point, you have raised here. A year of technical evaluations and another for field trials, does make the selection process the most rigorous in the world. The IAF is very very demanding and sets very high standards when it comes to acquisitions. If there is no political interference, they will make sure that the best of all is selected.

All competitors know this and so do other Air Forces of the world. So the MMRCA deal is not only immediate business but also a grand PR for future sales.

The following news piece gives an idea of how rigorous the field trials are going to be. This after a year long exhaustive technical evaluation after which the Rafale was rejected. I am afraid for all the tech the Rafale boasts of, it still has several shortcomings, that can not be overlooked.

In the first phase, the air force will send two teams of three pilots each to be familiarized and trained on vendors' aircraft simulators.

In the second phase, flight trials will be conducted in India on two twin-seater aircraft. In India, a sortie will be made for heat and dust trials in the desert region of Jaisalmer lasting for two or three days, in Bengaluru for tropical conditions for 10-12 days, and in the mountainous region around Leh for a day of high-altitude trials.

It is expected, however, that the flight evaluation trials will be completed by March next year.

The final phase to be conducted in the vendor's country, including flying a single-seater, will showcase weapons, radar and electronic weapons, as well as maintenance evaluation trials.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...e Out, MMRCA Trials by August&channel=defense

 

[Super Falcon]

as we all know habbit of america when america needs anyone american give them everything but when their work will finish they ban them as they did with pakistan in 80 era and with china than they ban the sale of more millitry equipment for them and today if india thinks that usa is their serious friend they are making mistake india also have to face the music of usa in future

 

[Super Falcon]

USA is the biggest liar country in the world it has been proofed thing uSA only cares about itself it doesent think better for others