Rafale Out of MRCA Consequences FOR PAF

[maverick2009]

I,M astonished. The french have again failed to win an overseas order for Rafale . The indians have taken RAFALE out of the contest.

Reasons listed below

The early elimination of the Rafael too is being attributed by insiders to high costs and failing to respond to technical queries. While the commercial bids were to be opened at a later stage, the cost of the fighter has always been considerably more than most of its competitors.



Insiders also say that the ministry was not very happy with the replies it received on technical queries that had been sent after the French company submitted its technical bid. Sources say that the `half hearted’ replies and failure to provide enough information were factors that were considered in the fighter’s elimination from the second round of evaluations.

From PAFs point of Veiw.

Some are talking about using Dassault to obtain new engine weapons and radar for JF17 mk2. Be warned French are hellish expensive. India has thrown them out of MRCA on cost grounds. French want $30 million each to ugrade the Mirage2000H of IAF to dash9 standard.

Secondly of all the MRCA bidders its Lockheed Martin and Boeing that are doing all the hard commercial running. Setting up seminars workshops and prsentations for both F16IN & F18SH. The unit cost of the F18SH is 30% cheaper per plane than both Rafale & Typhoon and comes with added benefit of working proven AESA radar APG79/80.

PAF could be facing an IAF with both Russian FLANKER & USA Aesa equipped F18/F16 by 2012.

Thirdly should should PAF chase RAFALE order now that India has dropped them from the race. It would be a tremendous addition to PAF even in small nos.

 

[Gabbar]

There is already a thread about this.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/4347-mrca-news-discussions-post354597.html

 

[Keysersoze]

Gabbar this is addressing a different issue, therefore is a valid new thread.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

PAF could be facing an IAF with both Russian FLANKER & USA Aesa equipped F18/F16 by 2012.

Isn't 2012 a bit early?

How long is the evaluation and selection process going to take?

 

[BaburCM]

PAF should instead be aiming for a powerful French engine, weaponry, radar and other tech enhancements for the JF-17/FC-20. Rafale tech should be sought and integrated into the JF-17. The Rafale is very expensive and not worth the hassle in my opinion. Not even in small numbers. It would be suicidal to go for the Rafale.

 

[spurdozer]

Well the final showdown for the competition will take place between F-18SH and Mig-35. That's what I've read on Bharat Rakshak.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

PAF should instead be aiming for a powerful French engine, weaponry, radar and other tech enhancements for the JF-17/FC-20. Rafale tech should be sought and integrated into the JF-17. The Rafale is very expensive and not worth the hassle in my opinion. Not even in small numbers. It would be suicidal to go for the Rafale.

It would be worthwhile to scrap the Block 52 deal and replace the order with Rafale. France must be itching for a foreign market for this bird.

The U.S. withheld our F-16's after taking our money in the past, well then let's screw this order and check the French out.

 

[spurdozer]

BaburCM, Do you actually believe that the French will give you the Rafale tech. to be integrated on JF-17/18/17 MK-2.

 

[BaburCM]

It would be worthwhile to scrap the Block 52 deal and replace the order with Rafale. France must be itching for a foreign market for this bird.

The U.S. withheld our F-16's after taking our money in the past, well then let's screw this order and check the French out.

Rafale is a colossal failure in my humble opinion and doesn't offer the bang for the buck. We should only go for the Rafale if the French are seriously willing to negotiate on the cost and ToT part. The Indians and many other countries aren't crazy to drop the Rafale deal. Though, I still prefer French Rafale tech incorporated into our own JF-17/FC-20 airframes.

 

[spurdozer]

We need AESA fast and from what I've read I don't think China would be able to get us an Aesa on the FC-20. Rafale should be evaluated by PAF

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Rafale is a colossal failure in my humble opinion and doesn't offer the bang for the buck. We should only go for the Rafale if the French are seriously willing to negotiate on the cost and ToT part. Though, I still prefer French tech incorporated into our own JF-17/FC-20 airframes.

Colossal failure only in strict sales and marketing terms. It is a very, very capable bird with a bright future in the ALA. Also no one is going to give you their latest developments without making you pay a hefty price. France will not just hand over tidbits for PAF to use on JF-17 or FC-20, not in a thousand years. You have to buy the package....Rafale.

 

[Patriot]

It would be worthwhile to scrap the Block 52 deal and replace the order with Rafale. France must be itching for a foreign market for this bird.

The U.S. withheld our F-16's after taking our money in the past, well then let's screw this order and check the French out.

That would be a huge mistake.Rafale is still far more expensive then F16 Block52.Our Pilots are trained on F16's.Years of training..and establishing new infrastructure for Rafale will be expensive.F16's are much better because we also have FMF program with US so PAF can buy toys for F16 with it instead of paying money.

 

[Patriot]

Old News but i think it's related.We should buy these things from France now.
French authorities have given approval for industry to offer a Thales RC 400 airborne fire control radar and MBDA Mica air-to-air missiles to Pakistan, to be fitted on the JF-17 jet fighter built under license from China, a Pakistani official said.

“They are cleared for export negotiation,” the official said.

The sale has raised concerns of a potential breach of the EU military embargo on China.

Pakistan and France have drawn up a memorandum of understanding in which Islamabad promises not to release technology to China, the Pakistani official said. French industry submitted prices about a year and a half ago for the gear and these were no longer valid. With export clearance, commercial negotiations can take place.

The Délégation Générale pour l’Armement arms agency, MBDA and Thales declined comment.

Source: DefenseNews.com

 

[Kharian_Beast]

That would be a huge mistake.Rafale is still far more expensive then F16 Block52.Our Pilots are trained on F16's.Years of training..and establishing new infrastructure for Rafale will be expensive.F16's are much better because we also have FMF program with US so PAF can buy toys for F16 with it instead of paying money.

Good point, infrastructure and pilot experience is already there. However there will come a time when PAF will have to wean itself the F-16 and now as we gear our airforce to induct many Chinese platforms, it couldn't be a better time. Plus I have so much faith in the senior pilots that I am sure they would be flying the Rafale with the same precision and expertise as they do with the Falcons. Remember we also have had a great run with our Mirage fleet.

 

[spurdozer]

Rafale is a colossal failure in my humble opinion and doesn't offer the bang for the buck. We should only go for the Rafale if the French are seriously willing to negotiate on the cost and ToT part. Though, I still prefer French tech incorporated into our own JF-17/FC-20 airframes.

There's no need of TOT, Neither Pakistan can handle such advanced tech. nor France would be willing to give it. That's not the end of the world for Rafale. Kuwait, Switzerland and Libya are interested in Rafale. Rafale is also being touted to replace the UAE AF Mirage 2000s.
So there won't be any urgency.