Rafale and JF-17 Thunder to compete in Serbia.

[ziaulislam]

new f-16 with trianing and arauments will cost more than 100 million dollars per piece..e.g 3.1 billion for iraq 18 f-16s..
it was cheaper fore us because we had adequate training and we purchased it few years back..even then it cost us more than 80 million

 

[Mav3rick]

Not required

JF-17's have carried out hundreds of sorties against militants. JF-17's has clocked over 10k flight hours and it has been in mock exercises. So the jet has seen actual combat, has proved durability and has room for custom modifications.

 

[DV RULES]

JF-17 most suitable option for Serbia, rather than Rafale or some else. Question here their production and availability of all avionics suit to deliver order on time.

 

[Mani2020]

Was just going through some serb forums and they were hell reluctant to go for jf-17s , they still have a notion of jf-17 being a upgraded f-7 and nothing much to offer ....One of them was of the view that jf-17 is successful in PAF because PAF had to replace ridiculously obsolete aircrafts.... and one indian member as like always was degrading the jf-17 in front of them.... unfortunately i am not registered there ...but antibody was/is so i was expecting alot from him to defend but just saw one post from him ....will be interesting if he contributes there

 

[Luftwaffe]

Was just going through some serb forums and they were hell reluctant to go for jf-17s , they still have a notion of jf-17 being a upgraded f-7 and nothing much to offer ....One of them was of the view that jf-17 is successful in PAF because PAF had to replace ridiculously obsolete aircrafts.... and one indian member as like always was degrading the jf-17 in front of them.... unfortunately i am not registered there ...but antibody was/is so i was expecting alot from him to defend but just saw one post from him ....will be interesting if he contributes there

Hello, Do you think Aircrafts are purchased on Forums.

 

[Black Widow]

JF-17's have carried out hundreds of sorties against militants. JF-17's has clocked over 10k flight hours and it has been in mock exercises. So the jet has seen actual combat, has proved durability and has room for custom modifications.

hey guys.. guys, I am not saying that FC1 is not required. Actually I had posted something , which I felt was not required to post in this forum.. Hence I edited my post and said "My post was not required "

I

 

[killerx]

JF17 thunder is good option for serbia but JF17 block 2 will best i dont think PAF would be offering BLK2 for sale any soon

 

[Manticore]

Was just going through some serb forums and they were hell reluctant to go for jf-17s , they still have a notion of jf-17 being a upgraded f-7 and nothing much to offer ....One of them was of the view that jf-17 is successful in PAF because PAF had to replace ridiculously obsolete aircrafts.... and one indian member as like always was degrading the jf-17 in front of them.... unfortunately i am not registered there ...but antibody was/is so i was expecting alot from him to defend but just saw one post from him ....will be interesting if he contributes there

that is an extremely anti-pak forum-- 99% of pak members get banned in the first week-- i try to maintain a pak presence their-- there is an independent jft discussions thread there , rather there were 2 but one got deleted after the roll back-not to mention pak army , pak armed force, pak ssg threads are maintained there by me- i used to 'disscuss'' a lot but i found it of no use as the place is spammed by hoardes of br type members-------- its better to have some pak presence than nothing at all

the translated serb forums , however are generally pro jft

 

[Zabaniyah]

Was just going through some serb forums and they were hell reluctant to go for jf-17s , they still have a notion of jf-17 being a upgraded f-7 and nothing much to offer ....One of them was of the view that jf-17 is successful in PAF because PAF had to replace ridiculously obsolete aircrafts.... and one indian member as like always was degrading the jf-17 in front of them.... unfortunately i am not registered there ...but antibody was/is so i was expecting alot from him to defend but just saw one post from him ....will be interesting if he contributes there

Unfortunately, a lot of people still assume that
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...china-ordered-16-f-7bgi-light-fighter-14.html

 

[peace lover]

i think they should go for jf17 if they can bear other expenses .they dont need any air superiority fighter.

 

[Sapper]

That seems like a lot of work for no apparent reason. A new block-60 F-16 with spares, armaments, training and equipment will cost them US$80-100 million/piece. A similar deal for Block-II/Block-III JF-17's would cost them US$ 35-40million/piece which also means they can easily raise 2 squadrons (as per their desire) of a brand new jet that rivals F-16/Mig-29 (latest variants).

Dear,

There is a difference between posting a comment, and posting result of your research and analysis. Go to my profile and look for my posts, and you'll find out that 95% of my posts are presenting results of some research, rather then a tit for tat responce. I guess thats the reason why my friends and coworkers call me Sapper-pedia.

Now back to research. In 2006 PAF ordered 18(+18) new F16s at cost of 1.5b(+1.5b) USD. This Included 36 Sniper & 36 ALQ-211 AIDEW pods, Spares, 36 JHMCS, and accerories for F16-BL52+, associated support equipment and training.
Armament cost of this deal was worth 650m USD, with 500 AMRAAMS, 200 AIM9M, and ~4000 Bombs & Kits, associated support equipment and training. This armament did not include Harpoons, Cluster-Bombs, Majority of Dumb-Bombs and Rockets etc, since these are already with PAF in ample amounts and we make some of these domestically as well. This armament also did not include HARM as sale of HARM to Pakistan was not allowed.

Source: $5.1B Proposed Sales, Upgrades, Weapons Pakistan’s F-16s

Now in light of this information, 36 new F16-BL52, with all ammo, associated equipment and training cost around 3650m USD, or almost 101 million USD in 2006. I dont know but since then price MUST have gone up, not down.

Regards,
Sapper

 

[Tempest II]

Thanks Sapper for your input. These discussions make sense with numbers and even better if we have references and references points.

Just noting that the Serbian Defence Budget = US$898m for 2011. = Defence budget (Serbia) - Sentinel Security Assessment - The Balkans

Also from 2009, "the cost for operating an F-16D jet is $7,304 per hour (including takeoff and landing) while the cost of the other jet, a F-16 Charlie, is $7,375 per hour." = Air Force One Photo Op Could Cost Taxpayers Between $27,500 And $213,000

If they need to meet NATO standards of 180 hrs/year.

The Swiss selection of the Gripen against the Rafale says a lot about costs, which we seem to underrate here. In a very similar move, the US Navy went for the F-18s because they were cheaper and decided against the F-14s which were better fighters.

 

[Mani2020]

Hello, Do you think Aircrafts are purchased on Forums.

Who said that? but still it is a good medium to create awareness of the real thing to those who are really being blinded by ignorance .... don't try to take everything wrong footedly ..... Internet and online forums are a great medium to convey your message.... don't forget that every single individual is an ambassador of his country ....everyone needs to play his part.... Pakistan and everything related to it is what we need to promote on every single forum.... atleast thats one thing we can learn from our eastern neighbours ...rather then finding ways to downgrade others for something that he/she had said against your thoughts once in the past.....

I still remember that guy who is some un-related forum though started to promote Pakistan through sharing some classical things with his mates on the same forum belonging to different parts of the world...and it was astonishing for them ...the way they were praising Pakistan and showing their willingness to visit Pakistan .... everyone of them had to say that he had some kind of horrible image regarding Pakistan in his mind due to all kind of bad stuff shown in west ....and how that one guy changed the thinking of hundreds ..........I still remember an Israeli guy who was dieing to visit Pakistan but can't due to his Israeli passport ...but he was sure one day he will after getting US passport as he was living there.... Thats how one guy changed the thinking of many........... When you get a chance to promote your country and your products why wouldn't you ..........rather then being an armchair generals to share loads and loads just for nothing

 

[Mav3rick]

Dear,

There is a difference between posting a comment, and posting result of your research and analysis. Go to my profile and look for my posts, and you'll find out that 95% of my posts are presenting results of some research, rather then a tit for tat responce. I guess thats the reason why my friends and coworkers call me Sapper-pedia.

Now back to research. In 2006 PAF ordered 18(+18) new F16s at cost of 1.5b(+1.5b) USD. This Included 36 Sniper & 36 ALQ-211 AIDEW pods, Spares, 36 JHMCS, and accerories for F16-BL52+, associated support equipment and training.
Armament cost of this deal was worth 650m USD, with 500 AMRAAMS, 200 AIM9M, and ~4000 Bombs & Kits, associated support equipment and training. This armament did not include Harpoons, Cluster-Bombs, Majority of Dumb-Bombs and Rockets etc, since these are already with PAF in ample amounts and we make some of these domestically as well. This armament also did not include HARM as sale of HARM to Pakistan was not allowed.

Source: $5.1B Proposed Sales, Upgrades, Weapons Pakistan’s F-16s

Now in light of this information, 36 new F16-BL52, with all ammo, associated equipment and training cost around 3650m USD, or almost 101 million USD in 2006. I dont know but since then price MUST have gone up, not down.

Regards,
Sapper

I agree with your post on cost of F-16's for Pakistan in 2006 but did your calculations not determine the A/C cost to be 57 million to which I made my previous post? And today I still say the A/C can cost anywhere from US$ 80 million to US$ 100+ Million as a lot depends on the armaments, radar, pods, EW suites, spares etc.

 

[Sapper]

I agree with your post on cost of F-16's for Pakistan in 2006 but did your calculations not determine the A/C cost to be 57 million to which I made my previous post? And today I still say the A/C can cost anywhere from US$ 80 million to US$ 100+ Million as a lot depends on the armaments, radar, pods, EW suites, spares etc.

I did NOT say it cost 57 million USD, I said that would be the maximum price that serbians could pay in their 1.3b budget.
The meaning of my earlier comparative analysis was that excluding armament the fighter plane should be lower in cost than 57 million USD to fit inside their budget, otherwise they would have to increase budget.

Example, If they select F16-BL52+ at a cost of 70 million, it would mean increasing their budget from 1.3 billion to 1.516 billion USD, i.e. 216 million over budget. Instead, if they go for F18 at 80 mil a pop, it will be 372 million over budget. They would require the bidder to stay inside the alotted range of 57million per plane for Americas, 54m/p for Europeans, 65m/p for Russians, 46m/p for Chinese (18 planes not 12).

Now remaining inside these ranges, only Russians and Chinese manufacturers can pitch in their solutions that do not overstretch their budget of 1.3 billion USD. All the rest i.e. F16, F18, Grippen, Eurofighter, Rafale will put them over budget for sure.

Regards,
Sapper