Rafael Releases New Member of Spike Family - Spike NLOS

[500]

So you again & again are asserting (despite the more clearer & UN-ambiguous source I provided) that its technology limitation of Russians that inhibit fire & forget development....
but yes not many SACLOS systems (according to WIKI) can do this

I give the fact that Russia failed to develop Germes fire and forget system,

I said Relatively. Already you have known about Kobra & Refleks system dated back to 70s!!...radio & laser guided ATGM projected via 125mm smooth bore; sure enough for Soviets those guidance system for as you put high g's was simple & is simpler

Kobra and Refleks are not guided rounds. These are missiles launched from the bore. Just regular 2nd gen missiles.

500,

I very sorry too burst your "Israel is Superior too Russia bubble" but the fact is that the Russians have already finished developing their Fire and forget ATGM system.


PSSST, Its called Kornet-D

ВЕЛИКАЯ Ð*УСЬ - Ещё один экспонат МАКСа

Kornet-D is not fire and forget.

 

[Major Shaitan Singh]

JANE'S MISSILES AND ROCKETS - DECEMBER 01, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russia develops fire-and-forget Kornet
Doug Richardson

Russia has developed new fire-and-forget versions of the Tula KBP Kornet-E (AT-14) anti-tank missile, writes Doug Richardson. According to former commander-in-chief of the Russian Ground Forces, General of the Army Nikolay Kormiltsev, these are third-generation variants of the missile.

In an interview given to the Russian military newspaper Krasnaya Zvezda a few weeks before his resignation in late September, Gen Kormiltsev said that the new missiles can be equipped with "a thermal or radio-locating homing head", and could be used against enemy anti-tank missile systems.

Kornet had become a "powerful and efficient weapon" with many advantages over foreign equivalents, he suggested, and was "very simple to use".

In its basic form, the Kornet missile is fired from a tripod-mounted single-round firing post designated the 9P163-1. This includes a standard day sighting and guidance device, but can be fitted with a 1PN79-1 thermal-imaging night sight. A 9P163-2 firing post was developed for vehicle-mounted Kornet systems.

The 9P163-1 missile currently in service is fitted with a tandem high-explosive anti-tank (HEAT) warhead, while the 9M133F-1 carries a thermobaric warhead. Both are laser beam-riding missiles that use semi-automatic command to line-of-sight (SACLOS) guidance. The gunner has to keep his sight on the target until the missile impacts.

With the new third-generation system, the gunner is only required to aim the missile, then give the fire command once lock-on has been obtained.

The 'thermal' pattern of homing head will be a passive-homing seeker able to detect and home onto the infrared (IR) energy emitted by the target. This would make the third-generation Kornet the first Russian fire-and-forget anti-tank missile. There had been reports that an IR terminal-guidance seeker was developed for the command-guided 9M17 Skorpion (AT-2 'Swatter') but not put into service.

In Russian military terminology, the phrase 'radio-locating' is normally used to indicate radar. To be useful against tanks and other small tactical targets, an active-radar seeker would have to operate in the millimetric region.

In the early 1980s, Hughes developed alternative IR and millimetric-wave seekers for the 200 mm-diameter AGM-124 Wasp, while in the 1990s the UK fitted an active-radar millimetric seeker into the 178 mm-diameter Hellfire to create the MBDA Brimstone air-to-surface missile. Russia is known to have studied millimetric guidance systems for missiles, but cramming this technology into the 152 mm fuselage diameter of the Kornet-E would be a difficult undertaking for Russian industry.

Gen Kormiltsev gave no further details of the upgraded system and did not indicate if it was in service, or if it could be fired from upgraded versions of the current ground and vehicle-mounted firing posts.

 

[500]

DECEMBER 01, 2004

Just some 7 year old plans

 

[bularab]

Israel is no way superior to the Russians. Russian planes are 2x better than the American crashing toys, and the Israelis won't even dare to enter Russia, because they can kill only unarmed children. Clear enough?

 

[Drawn_Sword_of_God]

Well why don't the opposing groups refrain from using civilians as cannon fodders and human shields? So technically it is Hamas' fault that they don't value the lives of their own civilians and all when they intentionally keep them in a combat zone so that they're a target of Israeli high altitude jets and then later their bodies are shown to gain brownie points around the world. Isn't that worse?

It is not Israel's problem if Hamas and Hezbolla want their civilians to be human shields for them. Israel is simply defending her citizens. If these civilians come into warzones and live like a family picnic, then it is NEITHER Israel's fault nor the innocent civilians' fault; it is these agencies who use these civilians so mercilessly to up their political agenda.

im tired of hearing that excuse of hamas using civilians as a shield. sure they do, but lets not forget that israel has been killing palestinians long before hezbollah or hamas was even created

 

[500]

Israel is no way superior to the Russians.

Israel is superrior in many ways: thermal sights, AESA radars, UAVs, microelectronics.

Russian planes are 2x better than the American crashing toys

and the Israelis won't even dare to enter Russia

Why on earth Israel would enter Russia?

because they can kill only unarmed children. Clear enough?

Israelis defeated armed to teeth Arab armied many times. Russia killed some million civilians in Afghanistan and 100 K of own civilians in Chechnya.

 

[jha]

Israel is no way superior to the Russians. Russian planes are 2x better than the American crashing toys, and the Israelis won't even dare to enter Russia, because they can kill only unarmed children. Clear enough?

Thats a classic PDF statement...

 

[mnd]

This "Kornet vs Spike" is apples to oranges discussion.

First, if you compare infantry ATGMs, fire & forget guidance is redundant and indeed, complex missiles with seekers have worser performance than those with laser guidance, thus they are not really an advance and they have not been widely deployed.

In the USSR, then Russia, further advances in capabilities (this is actually new generation), focused on developement of semi-active ATGM which proved to have more potential in terms of power, range and jam immunity while Fire & Forget concept was allocated to a different role.

The West essentially has no counterpart to Kornet missile, which is more powerfull and engages targets out from their operating range, thus the infantry is not exposed to enemy fire.

All western ATGM of this type are designed to fight enemy targets in close combat zone, due to lack of missile developement.

 

[Project 627]

I give the fact that Russia failed to develop Germes fire and forget system,


Kobra and Refleks are not guided rounds. These are missiles launched from the bore. Just regular 2nd gen missiles.


Kornet-D is not fire and forget.

Cornet-D" is capable of hitting targets at a distance of 10 kilometers, while he clearly recognizes them both day and night, even under heavy fog and smoke. The control system is fully automatic operation of the operator-gunner reduced to almost zero.

In practice its fire and forget, because after launch you don't have to guide anymore, the computer does it for you

 

[500]

The West essentially has no counterpart to Kornet missile

US TOW-2A/B
Israeli MAPATS

What do mean Kornet-D is not fire and forget, KBP says its fire and forget, now should I take their word or yours.

It is laser guided missile how it is fre and forget??

 

[Project 627]

US TOW-2A/B
Israeli MAPATS


It is laser guided missile how it is fre and forget??

Cornet-D" is capable of hitting targets at a distance of 10 kilometers, while he clearly recognizes them both day and night, even under heavy fog and smoke. The control system is fully automatic operation of the operator-gunner reduced to almost zero.

In practice its fire and forget, because after launch you don't have to guide anymore, the computer does it for you.

 

[500]

In practice its fire and forget, because after launch you don't have to guide anymore, the computer does it for you.

Thats not called fire and forget. Fire and forget is self gudied missile.

Among other useful features "Kornet-E" is still is – this setting can be controlled from a distance of 50 meters. This is done in order to defeat the machine in case the crew survived while, "- says Arkady Shipunov, scientific director of the PCU

Fire and forget does not need that. You can fire and go away.

 

[mnd]

US TOW-2A/B

Old missile which is wire guided with limited range? (subject to jam?) Not worth of comparison.

Israeli MAPATS

This has similar guidance but missile is not comparable still, archaic configuration with monoblock warhead.

It is laser guided missile how it is fre and forget??

The targeting process is performed automatically and target can be designated by a third party, operation mode is the same as fire & forget (but without active seeker on missile). This feature is common on modern vehicle mounted ATGMs, Kornet D, Karakal.

 

[Project 627]

Thats not called fire and forget. Fire and forget is self gudied missile.


Fire and forget does not need that. You can fire and go away.

Russia has developed new fire-and-forget versions of the Tula KBP Kornet-E (AT-14) anti-tank missile, writes Doug Richardson. According to former commander-in-chief of the Russian Ground Forces, General of the Army Nikolay Kormiltsev, these are third-generation variants of the missile.

Well they all say its Fire and Forget. It could that the Russians have a different concept of Fire and Forget.

 

[nightcrawler]

I give the fact that Russia failed to develop Germes fire and forget system,

Kornet-D is not fire and forget.

This will may be my last post in this section;as I have already given you ample proof that Russians are able to create fire-forget projectiles but economically that ain't feasible. Rather they have created an awesome ATGM Kornet family whose operation is NLOS (...& I think you again are feeling NLOS & fire-forget the same thing...thy aren't).

If you ponder over this statement:

The targeting process is performed automatically and target can be designated by a third party, operation mode is the same as fire & forget (but without active seeker on missile). This feature is common on modern vehicle mounted ATGMs, Kornet D, Karakal.

you will acknowledge that this approach is unique & very economically feasible. The operation mode he is referring to is a unique NLOS property of Kornet...where you fire it from one vehicle..& then that vehicle moves to another place; while another vehicle guides the previously fired Kornet to its target. This is rectified by this official statement:

The laser emission coding allows adjacent systems to deliver crisscross fire at different targets or at one target simultaneously.

Now how to achieve a true unmanned firing of Kornet Salvo or an individual shoot out. Another unique ATGM launcher, remote controlled fire mechanism & person don't have to be within battlefield...or in other words the same objective achieved as with a true fire-forget scheme.
Plus such a system can be hide away in foliage with zero heat radiation to be detected; because of human absence!! Its more than fire-forget isn't it?

DefenceDog: Kornet-EM New Capabilities of Antitank Guided Missile Systems

Kobra and Refleks are not guided rounds. These are missiles launched from the bore. Just regular 2nd gen missiles.

Well Russian aren't smart according to you; sadly one have to see the timeline Russians developed these guided projectiles suffering high g's before West

The 9K112 Kobra SACLOS is a radio-command guided anti-tank missile system of the Soviet Union & The 9M119 Svir and 9M119M Refleks are laser beam riding, guided anti-tank missiles developed in the former Soviet Union.

Refleks-M ATGM System
For the former, see west lags behind in guided projectiles:

Development continued during the 1960s but it was not until the 1970s that serious attention was paid to the concept again. This was probably because of three factors:

* The United States development of a 152 mm gun missile system for the M551 Sheridan and M60A2 tank.
* The development NATO anti-tank missiles such as TOW and Euromissile HOT systems, which had better accuracy at long range than contemporary tank guns.

Its a shame when one compares this

US TOW-2A/B
Israeli MAPATS

with Kornet.
Now this is the performance graph, nothing like western contemporary ATGMs, this be enough proof for technically driven person here:

take care