What's new

Racial Origin of the Muslim Population and their Social Stratification under Bengal Sultanate

Status
Not open for further replies.
My dads side are Sheikhs, specifically Taluqdars..My Grandmother (dads mum) is a Sayyid. In no way does that mean I am not Bangali.

First and foremost I am Muslim.
 
. .
I can't comment on individuels. Human beings are too complicated and do not come off a production line. However there are general differances. To not accept that would be fallacy. We should isolate religion from race. My genes are from my parents. If I convert to Hinduism it does not follow that my genes get divorced from my parents. Religion and your race/ethnic group are disaparate.

Within South Asia there is a common denominator however let us accept that there are.

1. Punjabi
2. Pashtuns
3. Sindhi
4. Kashmiru
5. Baloch

and in India

6. Punjabi
7. Gujrati
8.Bengali
9. Tamil
and many others

and in Bangladesh

10. Bengali.

Each has certain features that characterize them. To ignore that would be wrong. Yes, within each group there are cross overs but my statement still stands. Of course Pak Punjabi and Indian Punjabi are one of the same thing.
 
. .
and as regards who you are. Well I can't answer about you but woke up today and washed my teeth. I saw myself in the mirror and though 'Ou that is me'. Period.

there was a canadian sikh dude who always called bengalis fish/rice eating..black.. etc. forgot his id.

I am afraid that is comment you will hear quite often in Pakistan. Almost exact referance to 'fish/rice/dhoti/colour.
 
.
:welcome::welcome::welcome:
@Maira La


For example I am from being Haryana region of India... common people look here like this...



jat_haryana_20140317.jpg

khap.jpg

khap.jpg

getimage.dll

Jat.jpg







While south most state Tamil looks like this...

8056499193_08259d2976_b.jpg
pour 20% chinies,20%indian freaky blaky (not south indian more like ur haryana people in black),10% south india intelecual blood,15% polluted arean or something like that and 25% (persian,turky,arabian,afgans) there u got a bd.
 
.
@Maira La


For example I am from being Haryana region of India... common people look here like this...


While south most state Tamil looks like this...

Yes the differences makes sense, because the ratio of ANI to ASI genes vary from North to South, in average. I say "in average", because occasionally you will find a Southern guy with more ANI genes than a Northern guy.

Then again, no genes are inherently better than the other and I'm not trying to be a racist either. Personally though, I find ANI more $exy in general. On the other hand, I always thought having more ASI genes make girls more feminine. Anyways, beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
 
.
@Maira La @bongbang

Here you go with the DNA and genetics.... No where near you will find common DNA whether its mt or Y somewhere near to anyone else. Forget you claimed forfathers Arabs/Turkish.


What is strong in India in particular is R1a which is found in West Bengal Brahmins, Punjabis (Indian and Pakistani) and Northern Europeans. Everything else is native to India.


Try to absorve it. :lol:











mtDNA[edit]
See also: Recent single origin hypothesis

Hypothesized map of human migration into theIndian subcontinent based on mitochondrial DNA and possible dispersal routes.
The most frequent mtDNA haplogroups in the Indian subcontinent are M, R and U.[7]

Arguing for the longer term "rival Y-Chromosome model",[8] Stephen Oppenheimer believes that it is highly suggestive that India is the origin of the EurasianmtDNA haplogroups which he calls the "Eurasian Eves". According to Oppenheimer it is highly probable that nearly all human maternal lineages in Central Asia, the Middle East and Europe descended from only four mtDNA lines that originated in South Asia 50,000-100,000 years ago.[12]

Macrohaplogroup M[edit]
The macrohaplogroup M which is considered as a cluster of the proto-Asian maternal lineages,[6] represents more than 60% of Indian MtDNA.[13]

The M macrohaplotype in India includes many subgroups that differ profoundly from other sublineages in East Asia especially Mongoloid populations.[6] The deep roots of M phylogeny clearly ascertain the relic of Indian lineages as compared to other M sub lineages (in East Asia and elsewhere) suggesting 'in-situ' origin of these sub-haplogroups in South Asia, most likely in India. These deep rooting lineages are not language specific and spread over all the language groups in India.[13]

Virtually all modern Central Asian MtDNA M lineages seem to belong to the Eastern Eurasian (Mongolian) rather than the Indian subtypes of haplogroup M, which indicates that no large-scale migration from the present Turkic-speaking populations of Central Asia occurred to India. The absence of haplogroup M in Europeans, compared to its equally high frequency among Indians, eastern Asians and in some Central Asian populations contrasts with the Western Eurasian leanings of South Asian paternal lineages.[6]

Most of the extant mtDNA boundaries in South and Southwest Asia were likely shaped during the initial settlement of Eurasia by anatomically modern humans.[14]

Haplogroup Important Sub clades Populations
M2
M2a, M2b Throughout the continent except in Northwest
Peaking in Bangladesh, Andhra Pradesh, coastal Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka
M3 M3a All the subcontinent except the Northeast
20% in Rajastan and Madhya Pradesh, being also very dense in Maharastra, Uttar Pradesh, Haryana, Gujarat, Karnataka
M4 M4a Peaks in Pakistan and Kashmir
M6 M6a,M6b Kashmir and near the coasts of the Bay of Bengal, Sri Lanka
M18 Throughout the subcontinent
Peaking at Rajastan and Andhra Pradesh
M25 Widespread in most of India (but rare outside it)
western Maharastra and Kerala, Punjab
Macrohaplogroup R[edit]
The macrohaplogroup R (a very large and old subdivision of macrohaplogroup N) is also widely represented and accounts for the other 40% of Indian MtDNA. A very old and most important subdivision of it ishaplogroup U that, while also present in West Eurasia, has several subclades specific to South Asia.

Most important South Asian haplogroups within R:[14]

Haplogroup Populations
R2
Distributed widely across the sub continent
R5 widely distributed by most of India.
Peaks in coastal SW India
R6 widespread at low rates across India.
Peaks among Tamils and Kashmiris
W Found in Pakistan, Kashmir and Punjab.
It is rare further east and not to be found in the rest of India.
Haplogroup U[edit]
Haplogroup U is a sub-haplogroup of macrohaplogroup R.[14] The distribution of haplogroup U is a mirror image of that for haplogroup M: the former has not been described so far among eastern Asians but is frequent in European populations as well as among Indians.[15] Indian U lineages differ substantially from those in Europe and their coalescence to a common ancestor also dates back to about 50,000 years.[16]

Haplogroup Populations
U2*
(a parahaplogroup) is sparsely distributed specially in the northern half of the subcontinent. It is also found in SW Arabia.
U2a shows relatively high density in Pakistan and NW India but also in Karnataka, where it reaches its higher density.
U2b has highest concentration in Uttar Pradesh but is also found in many other places, specially in Kerala and Sri Lanka. It is also found in Oman.
U2c is specially important in Bangladesh and West Bengal.
U2l is maybe the most important numerically among U subclades in South Asia, reaching specially high concentrations (over 10%) in Uttar Pradesh, Sri Lanka, Sindh and parts of Karnataka. It also has some importance in Oman. mtDNA haplogroup U2i is dubbed "Western Eurasian" in Bamshad et al. study but "Eastern Eurasian (mostly India specific)" in Kivisild et al. study.
U7 this haplogroup has a significant presence in Gujrat, Punjab and Pakistan. The possible homeland of this haplogroup spans Indian Gujarat(highest frequency, 12%) and Iran because from there its frequency declines steeply both to the east and to the west.
Y chromosome[edit]

The diversion of Haplogroup F and its descendants.
For more details on individual groups by Y-DNA, see Y-DNA haplogroups in South Asian populations.
The major Y chromosome DNA haplogroups in the subcontinent are F's descendant haplogroups R(mostly R1a and R2), L, H and J(mostly J2).[17]

The South Asian Y-chromosomal gene pool is characterized by five major lineages: R1a, R2, H, L and J2. Their geographical origins are listed as follows, according to the latest scholarship:

Major South Asian Y-chromosomal lineages: H J2 L R1a R2
Basu et al. (2003)
no comment no comment no comment Central Asia no comment
Kivisild et al. (2003) India Western Asia India Southern and Western Asia South-Central Asia
Cordaux et al. (2004) India West or Central Asia Middle Eastern Central Asia South-Central Asia
Sengupta et al. (2006) India The Middle East and Central Asia South India North India North India
Thanseem et al. (2006) India The Levant The Middle East Southern and Central Asia Southern and Central Asia
Sahoo et al. (2006) South Asia The Near East South Asia South or West Asia South Asia
Mirabal et al. (2009) no comment no comment no comment Northwestern India or Central Asia no comment
Zhao et al. (2009) India The Middle East The Middle East Central Asia or West Eurasia Central Asia or West Eurasia
Sharma et al. (2009) no comment no comment no comment South Asia no comment
Thangaraj et al. (2010) South Asia The Near East The Near East South Asia South Asia
Haplogroup L[edit]
Main article: Haplogroup L (Y-DNA)
India[edit]
Haplogroup L shows time of neolithic expansion.[18] The clade is present in the Indian population at an overall frequency of ca.7-15%.[19] The presence of haplogroup L is quite rare among tribal groups (ca. 5,6-7%) (Cordaux et al. 2004, Sengupta et al. 2006, Thamseem et al. 2006)

Earlier studies (e.g. Wells et al. 2001) report a very high frequency (approaching 50%) of Haplogroup L in South India appear to have been due to extrapolation from data obtained from a sample of 84 Yadavas andKallars, a Tamil-speaking caste of Tamil Nadu, among whom 40 (approx. 48%) displayed the M20 mutation that defines Haplogroup L.

Pakistan[edit]
Haplogroup L3 (M357) is found frequently among Burusho (approx. 12%[20]) and Pashtuns (approx. 7%[20]), with a moderate distribution among the general Pakistani population (approx. 2%[20]). Its highest frequency can be found in south western Balochistan province along the Makran coast (28%) to Indus River delta.

L3a (PK3) is found in approximately 23% of Nuristani in northwest Pakistan.[20]

Haplogroup H[edit]
Main article: Haplogroup H (Y-DNA)
This haplogroup is found at a high frequency in South Asia. It is generally rare outside of the South Asia but is common among the Romani people, particularly the H-M82 subgroup. Haplogroup H is frequently found among populations of India, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Pakistan and Maldives.

It is a branch of Haplogroup F, and is believed to have arisen in India between 20,000 and 30,000 years ago. Its probable site of introduction is India since it is concentrated there. It seems to represent the main Y-haplogroup of the indigenous paleolithic inhabitants of India, because it is the most frequent Y-haplogroup of tribal and lower caste populations (25-35%). Its presence in upper castes is rare (ca. 10%).[8][10][21]

Haplogroup R2[edit]
Main articles: Haplogroup R2 (Y-DNA) and Haplogroup R2a (Y-DNA)
In South Asia, the frequency of R2 lineage is around 10-15% in India and Sri Lanka and 7-8% in Pakistan.

India[edit]

This section does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (January 2013)
Other than these, significantly high percentages are shown by the people of West Bengal at 23%, Hindus from New Delhi at 20% and Baniya from Bihar at 36%. It is also significantly high in many Brahmin groups including Punjabi Brahmins (25%), Bengali Brahmins (22%), Bengali Kayasthas (21%), Konkanastha Brahmins (20%), Chaturvedis (32%), Bhargavas (32%), Kashmiri Pandits (14%) and Lingayat Brahmins (30%).[citation needed]

Among tribal groups, Lodhas of West Bengal show it at 43% while Bhil of Gujarat at 18%. Chenchu and Pallan of South India at 20% and 14% respectively. Tharu of North India shows it at 17%.[citation needed]

North Indian Muslims have a frequency of 11%(Sunni) and 9%(Shia), while Dawoodi Bohra Muslim in the western state of Gujarat have a frequency of 16% and Mappla Muslims of South India have a frequency of 5%.[22] This lineage also forms 5% of Punjabi males.

Pakistan[edit]
The R2 haplogroup is found in 14% of the Burusho people.[20] Among the Hunza it is found at 18% while the Parsis show it at 20%.

Sri Lanka[edit]
39% of the Sinhalese of Sri Lanka are found to have R2.

Maldives[edit]
13% of the Maldivian people of Maldives are found to have R2.[23]

Nepal[edit]
In Nepal, R2 percentages range from 2% to 26% within different groups under various studies. Newars show a significantly high frequency of 26% while people of Kathmandu show it at 10%.

Haplogroup R1a1[edit]
Main article: Haplogroup R1a1 (Y-DNA)
In South Asia R1a1 has been observed often with high frequency in a number of demographic groups.[24][25] Its parent clade Haplogroup R1a is believed to have its origins in the Indus Valley or the Eurasian Steppe,[26] whereas its successor clade R1a1 has the highest frequency and time depth in South Asia, making it a possible locus of origin.[27][28][29] However, the uneven distribution of this haplogroup among South Asian castes and tribal populations makes a Central Eurasian origin of this lineage a strong possibility as well.[10][11]

India[edit]
In India, high percentage of this haplogroup is observed in West Bengal Brahmins (72%) [24] to the east, Konkanastha Brahmins (48%) [24] to the west, Khatris (67%)[30] in north and Iyengar Brahmins (31%)[24] of south. It has also been found in several South Indian Dravidian-speaking Tribals including the Chenchu (26%)[31] and Valmikis of Andhra Pradesh as well as the Yadav and Kallar of Tamil Nadu suggesting that M17 is widespread in these Southern Indians tribes.[31]

Besides these, studies show high percentages in geographically distant groups in India such as Manipuris (50%)[30] in the extreme North East and in Punjab (47%)[31] to the extreme North West.

Pakistan[edit]
In Pakistan it is found at 71% among the Mohanna of Sindh Province to the south and 46% among the Baltis of Gilgit-Baltistan to the north.[30]

Sri Lanka[edit]
In Sri Lanka, 13% of the Sinhalese people were found to be R1a1a (M17) positive.[31]

Maldives[edit]
In Maldives, 24% of the Maldivian people were found to be R1a1a (M17) positive.[23]

Nepal[edit]
People in Terai Region, Nepal show R1a1a at 69%.[32]

Haplogroup J2[edit]
Main article: Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)
Haplogroup J2 reflects presence from neolithic period in the subcontinent.[18] J2 is almost absent from tribals, but occurs among some Austro-Asiatic tribals (11%). The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).[33] J2 appears at 20% among the Yadavas of South India while among the Lodhas of West Bengal it is 32%.[citation needed] In Maldives, 22% of Maldivian population were found to be haplogroup J2 positive.[34]
 
.
This discussion will not go anywhere unless you guy's get hold of genetic data to substantiate your claims.
 
.
This discussion will not go anywhere unless you guy's get hold of genetic data to substantiate your claims.


I have posted this.

Genetics and archaeogenetics of South Asia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I don't think caste system is good but genetics says that people of high caste have different DNA in India and low caste is pretty different from other south asians as well specially Bangladeshis. Look at the source.


Bangladeshi's are unique. They are different, they are mix of Turkish and Arabic people. Look at the mt and Y DNA. :lol:
 
.
@Maira La @bongbang

Here you go with the DNA and genetics.... No where near you will find common DNA whether its mt or Y somewhere near to anyone else. Forget you claimed forfathers Arabs/Turkish.


What is strong in India in particular is R1a which is found in West Bengal Brahmins, Punjabis (Indian and Pakistani) and Northern Europeans. Everything else is native to India.

Certainly there are many mutations that are native to India, because a group of people from the first wave of migrations out of Africa settled in India (the predecessors of Harappan people).

When people migrate to a new region, over millions of years new mutations may occur. So when you find a person, let's say, in Yemen, with the F haplogroup, you could say one of that person's ancestor came from India. It's like tracing where your ancestors have been. But eventually everything leads back to Africa.

About R1a - it is not native to India. Look carefully in the map. R1a is native to central Asia. Which is why in one of my earlier posts I said the ANI genes you carry comes from Central Asia.

Also, when you say Northern Europe, I'm assuming you're trying to say Eastern Europe. Northern Europe is most probably R1b.
 
.
I don't know about the 'Arab' contribution but for sure Bengali and lot's of Indian's on the Bay of Bengal, Orrisan, Chattisgarh, Bihar etc have a hight component of East Asian infusion.

Harrapa-TotalEastAsian.jpg


Edit: Kinetic I only saw it after I posted. Apologies.
 
.
Certainly there are many mutations that are native to India, because a group of people from the first wave of migrations out of Africa settled in India (the predecessors of Harappan people).

When people migrate to a new region, over millions of years new mutations may occur. So when you find a person, let's say, in Yemen, with the F haplogroup, you could say one of that person's ancestor came from India. It's like tracing where your ancestors have been. But eventually everything leads back to Africa.

About R1a - it is not native to India. Look carefully in the map. R1a is native to central Asia. Which is why in one of my earlier posts I said the ANI genes you carry comes from Central Asia.

Also, when you say Northern Europe, I'm assuming you're trying to say Eastern Europe. Northern Europe is most probably R1b.


Look at the R1a (R-M420) frequency by population, mostly found in Europe and all over India (Hindus only, highest in West Bengal Brahmins anbd other North Indian Brahmins and Pakistanis, outside only found in Eastern and northern Europe) (sort by %). And rest of the chromosomes are native to India. End of debate and thread.



List of R-M420 frequency by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Haplogroup R1a is one of the major classifications (called clades) of Y-chromosome types found in human male lines.


Continental Country Population Sample R1a1 = SRY1532.2 positive, M17/M198 not tested (%) R1a1* = SRY1532.2 positive, M17/M198 negative (%) R1a1a = SRY1532.2 positive, M17/M198 positive (%) Source
South Asia India West Bengal (Brahmins) 30 NA 0.00 72.22 Sharma et al. (2009)
South Asia Pakistan Mohanna 70 NA 0.00 71.00 Underhill et al. (2009)
South Asia Nepal/India Hindus (proxy for Indian ancestry) Chitwan, Nepal 26 NA 0.00 69.2 Fornarino et al. (2009)
Central Asia Tajikistan Ishkashimi (near Afghanistan) 25 NA NA 68.0 Wells et al. (2001)
South Asia India Uttar Pradesh (Brahmins) 31 NA 0.00 67.74 Sharma et al. (2009)
South Asia India Khatri-Punjab/Haryana 15 NA 0.00 67.00 Underhill et al. (2009)
Central Asia Tajikistan Tajiks/Panjikent 22 NA NA 64.0 Wells et al. (2001)
Europe Germany Sorbs 112 NA 0.00 63.4 Behar et al. (2003)
South Asia India Ahir-Punjab/Haryana 24 NA 0.00 63.00 Underhill et al. (2009)
Central Asia Kyrgyzstan Kyrgyz 52 NA NA 63.0 Wells et al. (2001)
South Asia Pakistan Pakistan Hazara 23 NA NA 60.9 Qamar et al. (2002)
South Asia India Bihar (Brahmins) 38 NA 0.00 60.53 Sharma et al. (2009)
South Asia India Lohana Gujarat 20 NA 0.00 60.00 Underhill et al. (2009)
Europe Hungary Hungarian 45 NA NA 60.0 Semino et al. (2000)
Central Asia Afghanistan Nuristanis 5 NA NA 60.0 Haber et al. (2012)
Europe Belarus Brest 97 NA 0.00 58.8 Underhill et al. (2014)
North Asia Russia (Altai Republic) Southern Altaians (Beshpel'tir) 43 NA NA 58.1 Kharkov et al. (2007)
Europe Russia Tver region Russian 38 NA 0.00 57.9 Mirabal et al. (2009)
Europe Poland 913 NA NA 57.0 Kayser et al. (2005)
Europe Hungary 53 NA 0.00 56.6 Battaglia et al. (2008)
Europe Poland 99 NA 0.00 56.6 Battaglia et al. (2008)
Europe Poland Polish 55 NA NA 56.4 Semino et al. (2000)
Europe Belarus 267 NA 0.00 54.7 Underhill et al. (2014)
Europe Ukraine Ukrainian 50 NA NA 54.0 Semino et al. (2000)
Europe Russia Kursk region Russian 40 NA 0.00 52.5 Mirabal et al. (2009)
North Asia Russia (Altai Republic) Southern Altaians (Kulada) 46 NA NA 52.2 Kharkov et al. (2007)
Europe - Ashkenazi Levite 60 NA 0.00 51.7 Behar et al. (2003)
Central Asia Afghanistan Pashtuns 49 NA NA 51.02 Haber et al. (2012)
Europe Belorussia 306 NA 0.33 51.0 Behar et al. (2003)
South Asia India Indo-European Middle Caste 48 NA NA 50.4 Sengupta et al. (2005)
Europe Ukraine 92 NA 0.00 50.0 Battaglia et al. (2008)
North Asia Russia (Altai Republic) Northern Altaians (Gorno-Altaisk) 20 NA NA 50.0 Kharkov et al. (2007)

@Atanz
 
Last edited:
.
I don't know about the 'Arab' contribution but for sure Bengali and lot's of Indian's on the Bay of Bengal, Orrisan, Chattisgarh, Bihar etc have a hight component of East Asian infusion.

Harrapa-TotalEastAsian.jpg


Edit: Kinetic I only saw it after I posted. Apologies.
it may be true.in my childhood people would mistake me for a cakma(chinies looking people)
 
.
I don't know about the 'Arab' contribution but for sure Bengali and lot's of Indian's on the Bay of Bengal, Orrisan, Chattisgarh, Bihar etc have a hight component of East Asian infusion.

Harrapa-TotalEastAsian.jpg


Edit: Kinetic I only saw it after I posted. Apologies.



You are right, they are called adivasi... native old people of eastern India ... those people in East converted to Islam in BD but now these guys got a headache to become Arbic and Turkish!!! @bongbang
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom