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Questions to ask your pro-Israeli friends

Well the land was called that...and the people from that land were called that...be it a state or not doesnt really kill the origin of the people called Palestinians...

Of course the Palestinian people have lived there for ages and ages, of all religions, particularly the three major Abrahamic religions. There is no argument about that. The only issue is the administrative partition by the British Empire and of some groups not accepting it. I am sure that soon there will be a Palestinian state formally for the first time in history, provided all sides can come together and work towards that goal with good intentions.
 
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Of course the Palestinian people have lived there for ages and ages, of all religions, particularly the three major Abrahamic religions. There is no argument about that. The only issue is the administrative partition by the British Empire and of some groups not accepting it. I am sure that soon there will be a Palestinian state formally for the first time in history, provided all sides can come together and work towards that goal with good intentions.

British partition?Can you give a link to that?
 
. . . .
Damn! You never try to learn History from sources do you?

The name of Palestine and or Palestina is mentioned on only four occasions in the Bible. With the subject of Palestine in the news so much these days, it is therefore practical that we should research into history and see where the name Palestine came from?

The commonly used name of Palestine today refers to that region of the eastern Mediterranean coast from the sea to the Jordan valley and from the southern Negev desert to the GalileeLake region in the north. The word itself is derived from "Plesheth", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into the English language as the name of "Philistine".Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. The ancient Philistines were not Arabs, nor even Semites, but were most closely related to the ancient Greeks originating from Asia Minor. The word Palestine (or Palestina) originally identified the region as "the land of the Philistines," a war-like tribe that inhabited much of the region alongside the Hebrew people. But the older name from antiquity for this region was not Palestine, but Canaan, and it is the term most used in the Old Testament regarding this particular parcel of land.

The Amarna Letters (an advanced art of ancient Canaanite writing) of the 14th century BC referred to "the land of Canaan," applying the term to the coastal region inhabited by the Phoenicians. The Canaanites had many tiny city-states, each one at times independent and at times a vassal of an Egyptian or Hittite king. The Canaanites never united into a state.

The history of Palestine is complicated by the many different cultures and civilizations that have flourished in the region. The first historical reference to the inhabitants of Canaan occurs in Genesis 10, where the table of nations is recorded. Canaan, the son of Ham and the grandson of Noah is said to have fathered most of the inhabitants of the land. These include Sidon(the Phoenicians), Heth (the Hittites), and the Jebusites (who lived near Jerusalem), the Amorites (in the hill country), the Girgashites, the Hivites (peasants from the northern hills), theArkites (from Arka in Phoenicia), the Sinites (from the northern coast of Lebanon), the Arvadites, the Zemarites (from Sumra), and the Hamathites. (from Hamath) (Genesis 10:15-18) The history of Palestine gains its significance for the Christian with the beginning of the Biblical period. But the region was inhabited by other cultures long before Abraham and his family arrived.


The Bible and Palestine
Hebrew Streams: "Palestine" in the Bible

Your turn please name the source from which you utter your worthless words :enjoy:




And it was back than when Isrealis were supporting Jordan coz they didnt want Arafat to give confidence to Palestine...Why stop half way in history and not continue? Oh yes @500 was watching you :agree:
Was there ever a Palestinian people or a nation called Palestine nation?

There never was a Palestinian people or a nation called Palestine. The Arabs invented the term after the fact. The so-called Palestinians lived mostly in Jordan and Syria. Yasser Arafat, the leader of the so-called "Palestinians," is actually an Egyptian!

Back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper "Trouw" published an interview it had with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. This is what he had to say:

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

There Was Never a Country Called Palestine
By Jerrold L. Sobel
Please forget one of the great fallacies of our time: Israel did not steal Palestinian land. It's not Palestinians' land; it's never been their land; it will never be their land. This land was given to the Jewish people, as stated in the Bible, by the Creator, and will remain the homeland of the Jewish people in perpetuity. Despite 27 invasions of Judea and Samaria (erroneously called the West Bank), conquests by many, forced conversions, exiles, massive oppression, generations of Diaspora, and cowardly acquiescence by a cadre of 5th-column Jews themselves, Jews have not only survived in what's known in Hebrew as Eretz Yisrael (Israel), but they've taken a desert wasteland and turned it into a powerful little democracy, the envy of the world.

To her detractors, of whom there are many worldwide, the mantra remains the same, ad nauseam. "Israel is complicit in doing this."


"She omitted doing that." "We respect Judaism but are against Zionism." Attempting to mask their anti-Semitism as anti-Zionism, Israel's enemies propagandize the most vile accusations in such numbers that much of it sticks. To cite just a few:


Myth: "Israel discriminates against its Arab citizens."


The facts show otherwise. Israel is one of the most open societies in the world. Out of a population of 6.7 million, 1.1 million are Muslims, 130,000 are Christians, and 100,000 are Druze. All have equal voting rights -- Israel is one of a very few place where Arab women have the right to vote, and Arabs currently hold 14 seats in the Knesset.


Following a five-year trial, in a landmark decision for women's rights, an Arab judge, Salim Joubran, sentenced the former president of Israel, Moshe Katsav, to seven years in prison for rape. In what Muslim country do Jews have such rights? How many seats do Jews hold in the Saudi government or Jordan? Can anyone recall a Jewish judge sentencing a prominent Arab in Egypt? More to the point, has anyone even heard of a Jewish judge in Egypt?

Myth: "The Palestinian Authority protects Jewish holy sites."

If only that were true. Then one important element blocking a sincere peace would be eliminated, but the facts speak otherwise. Just in the years between 1996-2000:
  • In Septemer 1996, Palestinian rioters destroyed a synagogue at Joseph's Tomb in Nablus.
  • Rachel's Tomb near Bethlehem has been repeatedly attacked since 1996.
  • In October 2000, Joseph's Tomb was torched after the Israeli garrison guarding it was temporarily withdrawn. It was subsequently rebuilt as a mosque.
  • In October 2000, the ancient synagogue in Jericho was destroyed by arson, and a second historic synagogue was damaged.

Forget about protecting these sites -- in textbooks, speech, and daily life, the Palestinians and their supporters absurdly deny any Jewish connection at all to these ancient landmarks. This all occurs under nominal Israeli control of these areas; one can only imagine the fate of Jewish holy sites left to Palestinian stewardship.


This brings us to the greatest canard of them all, the foundation on which every pro-Palestinian lie is based: "The Jews are building settlements on Palestinian land."


This grand daddy of all fabrications makes great copy for the media and is excellent for denigrators of Israel, but it lacks any basis in historical fact. There is no Palestinian land, plain and simple. If there were, when would it have been founded, and by whom? What would its borders have been, and what about the name of its capital? What would its major cities have been? What would have constituted the basis of its economy? What form of government would it have lived under?


Was Palestine ever recognized as an entity by another country? By whom? What was the language of the country called Palestine? What was Palestine's religion? What was the name of its currency? Since there is no such country today, what caused her demise?


These questions were posed by a Japanese writer, Yashiko Sagamori. Only the most revisionist adherent of the Palestinian narrative could even attempt to answer her queries. Pose these same questions regarding Israel and Jewish connection to this land, and except for the willfully blind and delusional -- of which, admittedly, there are many, each can be factually answered.


At no time in history has there ever been a nation called Palestine. During the Ottoman Empire, which lasted from 1299-1922 CE, the land dubbed by the Romans as Palestine was controlled by the Turks; there was never an outcry for a Palestinian State then. During the illegal annexation of Judea and Samaria by the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan subsequent to the 1949 Armistice and prior to 1967, there was never talk of "occupied territory" or a Palestinian State. Why did the dynamic change subsequent to Israel's glorious victory in the Six-Day War -- a conflict unprovoked by Israel?


Search as you will -- throughout the annals of history, Israel is the only nation victorious in war on successive occasions and then expected by the vanquished and the world at large to sue for peace, to cede land she reclaimed that was historically hers to begin with. It raises the question: which of the "Quartet" cajoling Israel to acquiesce to Palestinian demands should be allowed land won in conflict?


The Russians? It's beyond the scope of this essay to delve into their inglorious, extensive imperialist history and their oppression of native peoples, but as one example, isn't it time they relinquish the Kuril Islands to the Japanese? The Second World War has been over for 67 years.


The same holds true for my favorite imperialists, the British, who never miss an opportunity to castigate the Jewish State but somehow fail to look at their own sordid history. Just this past week, they proudly announced sending a sophisticated warship 7,700 miles into the South Atlantic to dissuade Argentina from re-establishing sovereignty over the Falkland Islands, which lie just 250 miles off Argentina's coast. Why are the Falkland Islands controlled by the British to begin with? Historically, doesn't Argentina, which controlled these islands until 1830, have a greater claim to them?


For that matter, when will the British finally relinquish Gibraltar to its "rightful owner," Spain?


Likewise, if not for hundreds of years of British tyranny and greater military strength, wouldn't Northern Ireland be part of the Republic of Ireland?


What about the United States? Let's face it: if they had more sticks and stones than we do, wouldn't Mexico wrest back the American Southwest and all its resources? Basically, wasn't all this land stolen by the harsh dictates of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo? Why is there such uproar over illegal immigration in the United States? After all, when Mexicans sneak across the border, in effect, aren't they just practicing "the right of return"?


Unquestionably, with the exception of the United States, it was from countries like these that Jews in Diaspora were forced to escape repression and rejoin their coreligionists who maintained a three-thousand-year continuous existence in Judea, Samaria, and the outlying areas.


Does might make right? With exceptions made against Israel, it seems to. The Jewish people were driven out of Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria by the Babylonians. They returned to their homeland and rebuilt the Second Temple only to have it burned again, this time by Romans, and to be once again exiled from their land.


Despite 27 invasions and conquests subsequent to the Grand Monarchy of Kings David and Solomon, Jews have always had a contiguous connection to this land. Only in the minds of the disparaging and the uninitiated did she ever relinquish it. If not the land of Israel, where are Jews from? Poland? The Ukraine? Russia? Only hateful revisionists such as Helen Thomas, Mel Gibson, Oliver Stone, and some sanctimonious loonies with Ph.D.s inculcating our kids with venom believe that.


As to the other detractors of Israel in the EU and the U.N., I ask the following questions. Who legitimately owns Alsace-Lorraine -- the Germans or the French? It's changed hands so many times over the past five hundred years that no one has a clue. What's Turkey doing in Northern Cyprus? Where is the world uproar over China's occupation of Tibet, East Turkestan, Inner Mongolia, and Manchuria?


We can go on and on and on with this. Certainly the Jewish people have at least as great a legitimate claim to their historic homeland than any of these other nations, and certainly more so than the so-called Palestinian Arabs do.


Why are the rules of international relations being changed for Israel? Is it because after thousands of years, the world at large can't bear to see the Jewish people once again in charge of their own land and their own destiny?

Please forget one of the great fallacies of our time: Israel did not steal Palestinian land. It's not Palestinians' land; it's never been their land; it will never be their land. This land was given to the Jewish people, as stated in the Bible, by the Creator, and will remain the homeland of the Jewish people in perpetuity. Despite 27 invasions of Judea and Samaria (erroneously called the West Bank), conquests by many, forced conversions, exiles, massive oppression, generations of Diaspora, and cowardly acquiescence by a cadre of 5th-column Jews themselves, Jews have not only survived in what's known in Hebrew as Eretz Yisrael (Israel), but they've taken a desert wasteland and turned it into a powerful little democracy, the envy of the world.


To her detractors, of whom there are many worldwide, the mantra remains the same, ad nauseam. "Israel is complicit in doing this."

"She omitted doing that." "We respect Judaism but are against Zionism." Attempting to mask their anti-Semitism as anti-Zionism, Israel's enemies propagandize the most vile accusations in such numbers that much of it sticks. To cite just a few:


Myth: "Israel discriminates against its Arab citizens."


The facts show otherwise. Israel is one of the most open societies in the world. Out of a population of 6.7 million, 1.1 million are Muslims, 130,000 are Christians, and 100,000 are Druze. All have equal voting rights -- Israel is one of a very few place where Arab women have the right to vote, and Arabs currently hold 14 seats in the Knesset.




Following a five-year trial, in a landmark decision for women's rights, an Arab judge, Salim Joubran, sentenced the former president of Israel, Moshe Katsav, to seven years in prison for rape. In what Muslim country do Jews have such rights? How many seats do Jews hold in the Saudi government or Jordan? Can anyone recall a Jewish judge sentencing a prominent Arab in Egypt? More to the point, has anyone even heard of a Jewish judge in Egypt?



Myth: "The Palestinian Authority protects Jewish holy sites."


If only that were true. Then one important element blocking a sincere peace would be eliminated, but the facts speak otherwise. Just in the years between 1996-2000:


  • In Septemer 1996, Palestinian rioters destroyed a synagogue at Joseph's Tomb in Nablus.
  • Rachel's Tomb near Bethlehem has been repeatedly attacked since 1996.
  • In October 2000, Joseph's Tomb was torched after the Israeli garrison guarding it was temporarily withdrawn. It was subsequently rebuilt as a mosque.
  • In October 2000, the ancient synagogue in Jericho was destroyed by arson, and a second historic synagogue was damaged.

Forget about protecting these sites -- in textbooks, speech, and daily life, the Palestinians and their supporters absurdly deny any Jewish connection at all to these ancient landmarks. This all occurs under nominal Israeli control of these areas; one can only imagine the fate of Jewish holy sites left to Palestinian stewardship.


This brings us to the greatest canard of them all, the foundation on which every pro-Palestinian lie is based: "The Jews are building settlements on Palestinian land."


This grand daddy of all fabrications makes great copy for the media and is excellent for denigrators of Israel, but it lacks any basis in historical fact. There is no Palestinian land, plain and simple. If there were, when would it have been founded, and by whom? What would its borders have been, and what about the name of its capital? What would its major cities have been? What would have constituted the basis of its economy? What form of government would it have lived under?


Was Palestine ever recognized as an entity by another country? By whom? What was the language of the country called Palestine? What was Palestine's religion? What was the name of its currency? Since there is no such country today, what caused her demise?


These questions were posed by a Japanese writer, Yashiko Sagamori. Only the most revisionist adherent of the Palestinian narrative could even attempt to answer her queries. Pose these same questions regarding Israel and Jewish connection to this land, and except for the willfully blind and delusional -- of which, admittedly, there are many, each can be factually answered.


At no time in history has there ever been a nation called Palestine. During the Ottoman Empire, which lasted from 1299-1922 CE, the land dubbed by the Romans as Palestine was controlled by the Turks; there was never an outcry for a Palestinian State then. During the illegal annexation of Judea and Samaria by the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan subsequent to the 1949 Armistice and prior to 1967, there was never talk of "occupied territory" or a Palestinian State. Why did the dynamic change subsequent to Israel's glorious victory in the Six-Day War -- a conflict unprovoked by Israel?


Search as you will -- throughout the annals of history, Israel is the only nation victorious in war on successive occasions and then expected by the vanquished and the world at large to sue for peace, to cede land she reclaimed that was historically hers to begin with. It raises the question: which of the "Quartet" cajoling Israel to acquiesce to Palestinian demands should be allowed land won in conflict?


The Russians? It's beyond the scope of this essay to delve into their inglorious, extensive imperialist history and their oppression of native peoples, but as one example, isn't it time they relinquish the Kuril Islands to the Japanese? The Second World War has been over for 67 years.


The same holds true for my favorite imperialists, the British, who never miss an opportunity to castigate the Jewish State but somehow fail to look at their own sordid history. Just this past week, they proudly announced sending a sophisticated warship 7,700 miles into the South Atlantic to dissuade Argentina from re-establishing sovereignty over the Falkland Islands, which lie just 250 miles off Argentina's coast. Why are the Falkland Islands controlled by the British to begin with? Historically, doesn't Argentina, which controlled these islands until 1830, have a greater claim to them?


For that matter, when will the British finally relinquish Gibraltar to its "rightful owner," Spain?


Likewise, if not for hundreds of years of British tyranny and greater military strength, wouldn't Northern Ireland be part of the Republic of Ireland?


What about the United States? Let's face it: if they had more sticks and stones than we do, wouldn't Mexico wrest back the American Southwest and all its resources? Basically, wasn't all this land stolen by the harsh dictates of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo? Why is there such uproar over illegal immigration in the United States? After all, when Mexicans sneak across the border, in effect, aren't they just practicing "the right of return"?


Unquestionably, with the exception of the United States, it was from countries like these that Jews in Diaspora were forced to escape repression and rejoin their coreligionists who maintained a three-thousand-year continuous existence in Judea, Samaria, and the outlying areas.


Does might make right? With exceptions made against Israel, it seems to. The Jewish people were driven out of Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria by the Babylonians. They returned to their homeland and rebuilt the Second Temple only to have it burned again, this time by Romans, and to be once again exiled from their land.


Despite 27 invasions and conquests subsequent to the Grand Monarchy of Kings David and Solomon, Jews have always had a contiguous connection to this land. Only in the minds of the disparaging and the uninitiated did she ever relinquish it. If not the land of Israel, where are Jews from? Poland? The Ukraine? Russia? Only hateful revisionists such as Helen Thomas, Mel Gibson, Oliver Stone, and some sanctimonious loonies with Ph.D.s inculcating our kids with venom believe that.


As to the other detractors of Israel in the EU and the U.N., I ask the following questions. Who legitimately owns Alsace-Lorraine -- the Germans or the French? It's changed hands so many times over the past five hundred years that no one has a clue. What's Turkey doing in Northern Cyprus? Where is the world uproar over China's occupation of Tibet, East Turkestan, Inner Mongolia, and Manchuria?


We can go on and on and on with this. Certainly the Jewish people have at least as great a legitimate claim to their historic homeland than any of these other nations, and certainly more so than the so-called Palestinian Arabs do.


Why are the rules of international relations being changed for Israel? Is it because after thousands of years, the world at large can't bear to see the Jewish people once again in charge of their own land and their own destiny?

“Palestine” in the Bible


by Paul Sumner


The names "Palestine" and "Palestina" occur four times in the Old Testament portion of the King James Bible (1611), the most influential English translation in history.


What have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Sidon,
and all the coasts of Palestine? (Joel 3:4a = 4:4a Heb)


The people shall hear, and be afraid;
sorrow shall take hold of the inhabitants of Palestina. (Exod 15:14)

Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina ... (Isa 14:29a)

Howl, O gate; cry, O city,
thou whole Palestina, art dissolved. (Isa 14:31a)


The 4th century church historian Eusebius (writing in Greek) twice mentions "Palaistine" in his Ecclesiastical History (2.2.6; 7.15.1). He notes that the coastal city Caesarea is in that region.


In the Hebrew Bible there is one word behind the various English renderings Palestine, Palestina, and Philistia. It is Peleshet.


peleshet-hebeng.jpg

Note the consonant link between Hebrew and Greek.


Peleshet [Hebrew]: P-L-SH-T
Palaistine [Greek]: P-L-S-T [there is no "sh" sound in Greek]
The geographical term Peleshet is used eight times in the HB (Exod 15:14; Isa 14:29, 31; Joel 4:4[=3:4 Eng], Pss 60:10[=v.8 Eng], 83:8[7], 87:4, 108:10[9] ).

The inhabitants of Peleshet are Pelishtim, a plural noun that occurs 287x in the HB (Gen 10:14; 26:1; Exod 13:17, etc.), mostly in Judges, 1 & 2 Samuel, and 1 Chronicles. Lexicons say the root palash is a verb meaning to roll (in dust or ashes) as an act of mourning (Jer 6:26; Ezek 27:30; Mic 1:10). How that relates to the people (rollers, mourners) is not clear.


pelishtim-hebeng.jpg


The Pelishtim
From the time the Israelites first entered Canaan, under Joshua's leadership, the "Philistines" were perennial enemies. Their center of power was the Pentapolis, a cluster of five cities along the coast of southern Canaan: Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, Gath, and Gaza. [See map below.] Their influence, however, stretched farther north up the coast.

The Coastal Cities of Philistia
The warrior giant Goliath (from the city of Gath) taunted the timid Jewish battle lines with inflated ethnic bluster: "I am the Philistine" [anokhi haPelishti]" (1 Sam 17:8). Interestingly, the Greek Septuagint renders his boast as: "I Am Foreigner" [ego eimi allophylos].

pelishti-hebeng.jpg

Goliath's boast elicits teenager David's famous response: "You come against me with sword and spear and javelin; but I come against you in the name of Yahveh Tzeva'ot, the God of the ranks of Israel, whom you have defied" (1 Sam 17:45).

The three main gods in the Pelishtim pantheon were Dagon (Judg 16:23; 1 Sam 5:1-7), Ashtoreth (Judg 10:6; 1 Sam 31:10), and Baal-Zebub (2 Kgs 1:1-6, 16).

Some 200 years after David, Isaiah condemns his fellow Judeans for forsaking God's "light" and for being "full [of practices] from the East ... [abounding] in customs of the aliens." These include "soothsaying like the Philistines [Pelishtim]" (Isa 2:5-6).

Septuagint Translation
The Septuagint (LXX) one time renders "Peleshet" as a reference to the people: Phylistiim (Philistines, Exod 15:14).

Everywhere else, "Peleshet" is translated hoi Allophuloi, "the Foreigners." This rendering is also reflected in Isaiah 2:5-6 which refers to "the land of the Allophuloi and many strange [Allophuloi] children were born to them."

hoi-allophuloi-grk.jpg
— Isa 14:29, 31; Joel 4:4 [3:4 Eng], Ps 59:10 [60:8 Eng], 82:8 [83:7 Eng], 86:4 [87:4 Eng], and 107:10 [108:9 Eng].
Clearly, the Jewish scholars in Egypt who did the LXX considered the Pelishtim as aliens and strangers. Some might view this is an historical irony, since the Israelites arrived in Canaan after the Pelishtim. But the Biblical perspective is that the Land was an eternal gift from God to the Israelites, alone.


Whence the Pelishtim
Evidence from Egyptian inscriptions identifies them as "Sea Peoples." Pottery from Ekron and Ashdod mirrors styles in Cyprus, and the temple at Tell Qasile (near Tel Aviv) is similar to ones in the Aegean Sea area and on Cyprus. No inscriptions in a Philistine language have been found, suggesting they adopted the languages where they invaded.

Amos refers to "the Pelishtim from Caphtor" (Amos 9:7). Jeremiah forewarns that "the day is coming" when "YHVH will ravage the Pelishtim [who are] the remnant from the island of Caphtor" (Jer 47:4). Archeologists believe Caphtor is likely the island of Crete. Zephaniah says:

Woe to the inhabitants of the seacoast,
The nation of the Cherethites! [Heb: KeReiTim; cf. CReTe]
The word of YHVH is against you,
O Canaan, land of the Philistines. (Zeph 9:7)



“Palestine” in Christian Bibles
Neither "Palestina" or "Philistia" occur in the Greek New Testament.

Nearly all Bible translations today use "Philistia" in their Old Testament portions for the original Peleshet. This designates the geographical area along the coast of Israel and southern Lebanon (including Tyre and Sidon). A few Christian versions have "Palestine" in their biblical text or in marginal notes. They may do this to orient readers to modern political boundaries. But some may have biased theological motives.

The Roman Catholic Douay-Rheims (revised 1899) has "the people of Palestine" at Jeremiah 47:1 and "the daughters of Palestine" at Ezekiel 16:57. In both verses the Hebrew reads "Pelishtim" (Philistines).

The conservative Protestant Amplified Bible (1965) includes "Palestine" in their text in brackets:

Ezek 38:11, 12 — "I will fall upon those...who dwell at the center of the earth [Palestine]."


Dan 11:30a — "...he shall be grieved and discouraged and turn back [to Palestine] and carry out his rage and indignation against the holy covenant and God's people."

Dan 11:41a — "He shall enter into the glorious land [Palestine], and many shall be overthrown."

[Also: 1 Chron 13:5; Jer 8:16; 22:20; Ezek 33:24]

The conservative Protestant New American Standard Bible (NASB)(1973, 1995) has "Palestine" in the margins at Daniel 8:9 and 11:16 to explain the biblical words "Beautiful Land." This isn't necessary, for the context is clear that Israel and Jerusalem are the subject at hand.

In contrast to these versions, the conservative Protestant Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) (2009) translates Daniel 8:9 and 11:16 without bias. It renders the Hebrew literally as the "Beautiful Land" and puts "Israel" in the margin. Mentioning "Palestine" is anachronistic. There was no such name in Daniel's time.

The Message of "The Message"
Twice in his paraphrased version The Message (2002, 2007), Eugene H. Peterson interpolates "Palestine" into his main text of Daniel:

Daniel 8:9 — "[Another horn] started small, but then grew to an enormous size, facing south and east—toward lovely Palestine [my emphasis]."


Daniel 11:16 — "[The king of the north will] take over thatbeautiful country, Palestine, and make himself at home in it."

[Note: The Hebrew behind Peterson's phrases "lovely Palestine" and "beautiful country, Palestine" is HaTzevi, "the Beautiful (Land)" andEretz HaTzevi, "the Beautiful Land." In the Bible, Israel is called "the Glory [tzevi] of all lands" (Ezek 20:6, 15), "a pleasant land, the most Beautiful [tzevi] inheritance of the nations!" (Jer 3:19).]

When Peterson substitutes "Palestine," in place of "the Beautiful [Land]," he interjects a name loaded with religious-political C-4. He didn't compose his paraphrase before 1948 when "Palestine" was a hypothetical political entity created by European powers. He wrote when the so-called Palestinian cause is PC orthodoxy among liberal intellectuals and the State of Israel is an object of disdain by most nations of the world, including liberal branches of Christianity.

Peterson's choice of "Palestine" is surely intentional, especially when he has no biblical warrant for doing so. His substitution would be like calling the modern state of Texas "North Mexico."

As a Christian leader, perhaps Peterson thinks the occupants of "lovely Palestine" in the future will be Arab Christian converts from Islam. Or perhaps he envisions a two-state reality:Peleshet/Palestine for Christians and Eretz Yisrael/Eretz HaTzevifor Jews.

Sadly, some Christian scholars will not allow the Bible to speak unfiltered truth. They politicize it for modern readers. They attempt to rewrite prophecy and history — all to nullify God's promises. Peterson might remember God's ancient forewarning:

Because the Pelishtim, in their ancient hatred, acted vengefully, and with utter scorn sought revenge and destruction — assuredly, thus said Lord YHVH: I will stretch out my hand against the Pelishtim and ... wipe out the last survivors of the seacoast." (Ezekiel 25:15-16)
At the same time, the warning of judgment also includes an offer of redemption for the Pelishtim from the God of Israel, the owner of Eretz HaTzevi:

Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord YHVH, "rather than that he should turn from ways and live?... I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord YHVH. "Therefore, repent and live. (Ezekiel 18:23, 32)




 
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A nation that left Israel centuries ago, by your logic if any ethnic group thinks that they should go back from where you came from, then you are asking for the same or more chaos which is happening right now in Israel-Palestine.
Then by your logic, whoever has the control over the land today, is the present owner.. The ownership of the land of Israel has changed hands many times over past two millenia. The Arabs were the the last owners and the Jews are the present owners. Christians owned that land before Arabs.
 
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The Qur’an makes a crucially important statement concerning certain Christians and Jews who would eventually emerge in history. It says:

“You will find (time and again) that the most hostile of all people to the believers (i.e., Muslims) would be the Jews and those who are idol-worshippers or pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers would be those who say, ‘We are Christians’, because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.”
(Qur’an, al-Maidah, 5:82)

It prohibits Muslim friendship or alliance with a Judeo-Christian alliance:
“Oh you who believe (in this Qur’an), do not take (such) Jews and the Christians as (your) friends and allies who themselves are friends and allies of each other. And whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, Allah does not guide such evildoers.”
(Qur’an, al-Maidah, 5:51)

It has corrected the falsehood about Ishmael:
“Also mention in the Book (the story of) Ishmael: He was (strictly) true to whatever he promised and he was an Apostle (and) a Prophet. He used to enjoin on his people prayer and charity and he was most acceptable in the sight of his Lord.”
(Qur’an, Maryam, 19:54-5)

It has also corrected the falsehood concerning the alleged unconditional grant of the Holy Land to the Israelite people. Rather, Allah Most High granted them the Holy Land conditional on “faith in Allah” and “righteous conduct”:
“… and We declared in (both) the Torah and the Psalms (of David) that (only) Our righteous servants shall inherit the earth or land (i.e., the Holy Land).”
(Qur’an, Prophets, 21:105)

This statement of the Qur’an is supported by some of the Psalms:
“But the meek shall inherit the earth or land (i.e., the Holy Land); and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.” (Psalm, 37:11)
“The righteous shall inherit the earth or land (i.e., the Holy Land), and dwell therein forever (i.e. provided that they remain righteous).” (Psalm, 37:29)
“Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth or land (i.e., the Holy Land).” (Matthew, 5:5)

The Qur’an has explained that whenever the Israelites violated the divine conditions of inheritance of the Holy Land (i.e., faith in God and righteous conduct) Allah Most High expelled them from that Land. The first expulsion took place after the death of Solomon (peace be upon him) as a consequence of their “telling lies about Allah” (i.e., rewriting the scriptures to plant falsehoods in them). They were exiled to Babylon. Upon their return to the Holy Land they again violated those divine conditions when they rebelled against Allah’s Prophets and killed several of them. They even boasted of how they had crucified Jesus. As a consequence they were again expelled from the Holy Land.

After that last expulsion took place in the wake of the rejection of the true Messiah and the attempt to crucify him, Allah Most High declared
“… if you return (i.e., to the Holy Land with your wickedness and oppression), We would return (with Our punishment).”
(Qur’an, the Israelites, 17: 8)

The Israelites have today returned to the Holy Land with more wickedness and oppression than ever before, and hence it should be quite clear to those who can recognize wickedness and oppression that Divine retributive punishment as promised in the Qur’an is also certain.
 
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Insects.. Dung Beatles ...
 
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@Akheilos

nice thread sis :)

There are too many paid propagandists here
i wonder if they're really "paid" to do so . maybe their family members (mamas) are under threat or sth :D

i dont say what kind of threat cause there are ladies reading this :D :D

they work harder than any numbscull i've ever seen ;)

Combat them while I'm busy
cut on your pilates for God's sake :P
 
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YHWH, the God of Israel, the one & true God of mankind, has given this Land to his people.
They have only reclaimed what is rightfully theirs.
Nothing more.
 
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This land was given to the Jewish people, as stated in the Bible, by the Creator, and will remain the homeland of the Jewish people in perpetuity.
Ok lets analyze that portion....If it was given to them meaning it never was theirs so had to be given to them...You dont give someone that is already theirs....

forced conversions,
Oh no not another Arabs invaded India cry! Please grow up!

If only that were true. Then one important element blocking a sincere peace would be eliminated, but the facts speak otherwise. Just in the years between 1996-2000:
I am surprised why someone only picked 1996-2000 and forgot to mention how the Christians attacked and destroyed the temple of Solomon the most religious thing for the Jews yet the chickens raise not a single voice against Christians...but are hard bent about Muslims this and that! As for who destroyed the following:

In Septemer 1996, Palestinian rioters destroyed a synagogue at Joseph's Tomb in Nablus.
Rachel's Tomb near Bethlehem has been repeatedly attacked since 1996.
In October 2000, Joseph's Tomb was torched after the Israeli garrison guarding it was temporarily withdrawn. It was subsequently rebuilt as a mosque.
In October 2000, the ancient synagogue in Jericho was destroyed by arson, and a second historic synagogue was damaged.

It is only the Jews who are blaming as usual without proof...for all we know it could have been some form of their own anger and disagreement as most of Palestine movement have been restricted and controlled heck if you can control even how much water each house gets....how easy is it to blame the same people for things you did to continue the hatred?


The names "Palestine" and "Palestina" occur four times in the Old Testament portion of the King James Bible (1611), the most influential English translation in history.

From the time the Israelites first entered Canaan, under Joshua's leadership, the "Philistines" were perennial enemies. Their center of power was the Pentapolis, a cluster of five cities along the coast of southern Canaan: Ashkelon, Ashdod, Ekron, Gath, and Gaza.
If you know even an ounce of history Canaan does overlap with Palestine...So when they 1st entered Canaan meaning they were somewhere else...how come they are not dying for that land? Mind you the Philistines were the inhabitants of most of present day Palestine....


Of course the Palestinian people have lived there for ages and ages, of all religions, particularly the three major Abrahamic religions. There is no argument about that. The only issue is the administrative partition by the British Empire and of some groups not accepting it. I am sure that soon there will be a Palestinian state formally for the first time in history, provided all sides can come together and work towards that goal with good intentions.
Uncle in the same way there never was "a nation/ country" called Israel...The people were called Bani Israel .....children of Israel...the land area that Jews consider inherited was conquered "inherited" by various people...Heck, many of the Bani Israel also became Muslims hence why you have the Afghans...while the Zionists who are running this claim from the bible are not even Semitic people no idea why they cry anti Semitism when they are ASHKANAZI not really of the 12 tribes of Bani Israel whom the land was promised to:

- are a Jewish ethnic division which coalesced in the Holy Roman Empire around the turn of the first millennium. The traditional language of Ashkenazi Jews consisted of various dialects of Yiddish.

They established communities throughout Central and Eastern Europe, which had been their primary region of concentration and residence until recent times, evolving their own distinctive characteristics and diasporic identities.
Once emancipated, weaving Jewish creativity into the texture of European life (Hannah Arendt), the Ashkenazi made a 'quite disproportionate and remarkable contribution to humanity' (Eric Hobsbawm), and to European culture in all fields of endeavour: philosophy, scholarship, literature, art, music and science. The genocidal impact of the Holocaust, the mass murder of approximately six million Jews during World War II devastated the Ashkenazi and their Yiddish culture, affecting almost every Jewish family.
It is estimated that in the 11th century Ashkenazi Jews composed only three percent of the world's Jewish population, while at their peak in 1931 they accounted for 92 percent of the world's Jews. Immediately prior to the Holocaust, the number of Jews in the world stood at approximately 16.7 million. Statistical figures vary for the contemporary demography of Ashkenazi Jews, oscillating between 10 and 11.2 million. Sergio DellaPergola in a rough calculation of Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews, implies that Ashkenazi make up less than 74% of Jews worldwide. Other estimates place Ashkenazi Jews as making up about 75% of Jews worldwide.


Sooo.... a 3% of the real Jews are crying for the rest of 97%? :pop: Wonder where the 97% really are? And how did these 3% end up becoming over 74-75% right before the Holocaust? :pop:
 
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