Question for indians here, regarding Ramayana and Mahabharata

[DesiGuy]

Rig veda is the best...Straight to the point:

There was neither non-existence nor existence then.
There was neither the realm of space nor the sky which is beyond.
What stirred?
Where?
In whose protection?
Was there water, bottlemlessly deep?

There was neither death nor immortality then.
There was no distinguishing sign of night nor of day.
That One breathed, windless, by its own impulse.
Other than that there was nothing beyond.

Darkness was hidden by darkness in the beginning,
with no distinguishing sign, all this was water.
The life force that was covered with emptiness,
that One arose through the power of heat.

Desire came upon that One in the beginning,
that was the first seed of mind.
Poets seeking in their heart with wisdom
found the bond of existence and non-existence.

Their cord was extended across.
Was there below?
Was there above?
There were seed-placers, there were powers.
There was impulse beneath, there was giving forth above.

Who really knows?
Who will here proclaim it?
Whence was it produced?
Whence is this creation?
The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
Who then knows whence it has arisen?

Whence this creation has arisen
- perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not -
the One who looks down on it,
in the highest heaven, only He knows
or perhaps He does not know.




(gives me chills every time i read it)

 

[Black Widow]

I am keen on learning about these two epic poems. I know many indians here are knowledgeable on these epics. So please answer these questions. This is asked in good faith just to improve my knowledge
1. Do educated Hindus in India even religious ones regard these epics as just mythology or fiction?
2. Do the events in these epics relate to any historical incident if so how?
3. And please recommend a good English translation of them, so that I can read..

@SarthakGanguly @Contrarian, @Indischer @nair

Ramayana and Mahabharata is not religious Book.. Koran and Bible are religious book. Ramayana and Mahabharata doesn't give any religious code of conduct.

So what are these?
1. Ramayana: Its about a young prince who is ideal man (Maryada Purushottam), he is a good son (obey father) good husband (save wife from other king) good king (kept public wish on top) and good husband (instead of being king he loved only one women)(in old indian culture monogamy was practiced, but king has option to follow polygamy).

2. Mahabharata: it is an epic which depict story family feud , power struggle etc.

Q. Do educated Hindus in India even religious ones regard these epics as just mythology or fiction?
A: Its mythology not fiction
Q. Do the events in these epics relate to any historical incident if so how?
A: could be , But lot of fiction has been added to make the story more interesting.
Q. And please recommend a good English translation of them, so that I can read..
A: you can watch some cartoons and online translations are available.

 

[ptltejas]

No bro... but I will read it for sure.

Geeta always made me energetic and powerful.

Dont need to read bulky, just read small pocket dictionary size, and yes, when we are saying about Indian Spiritual Literature, its like forest, said by foreign dictionary, there are Vedas, Upvedas, purans, uppurans, Shatdarshan(indian philosophy), samhitas, sutras etc.etc. vedas etc. come from ved vyasa, where as something which is directly come from mouth of God is Only Gita, small and Sweetestttttttt...............

 

[thesolar65]

Question for Indians here, regarding Ramayana and Mahabharata------The Ramayana and Mahabharata were actual events and not fairy tale stories. Those Historical acts/events were actual real life actions performed by the Gods and other souls for the future generations according to time and place on Earth or space. The Mahabharata has deeper details than Ramayana and it provides valuable info for any souls that are trying to achieve “Mokshah”. No sadhus ,Gurus or swamis had falsified the Vedic Sanskrit of Ramayana and Mahabharata. The Mahabharata and Ramayana hold deep secrets of all living souls and their destination after death which other faiths couldn’t or wouldn’t have any knowledge of those secrets. The swamiji---world researcher and investigator of all religion on the planet.

I liked both the stories from my Childhood, but did you watch Ancient Aliens??

Does any one know, just like Shias and Sunnis of Islam, Hinduism also had two main sects quarreling or had serious differences among them selves? "Shaiba Bhaktas" followers of Shiva and "Baishanbas" followers of Vishnu. May be thousands of years ago.

@INDIC @TejasMk3 @Kinetic @ExtraOdinary @Nova2 @ptltejas @DesiGuy @kaykay @SarthakGanguly @GURU DUTT

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Truly inspiring. Now I need to read Mahabharat too......



BS. Those places specially in SL are made up. There are no historical value to those places. I know one place which is in Seetha Eliya closer to Nuwara Eliya town in central hills. Nowadays there are many Indian people visiting it thinking it is the place where Seeta bathed and there are Hanuman foot prints. But in reality it is a small temple built by Indian plantation workers for there praying and later incorporated into the Ramayana folklore by someone. Every place in SL related to Ramayana are made up things. (Including Rama-Setu).

Recent evidences are showing up that Ram sethu bridge is man made. Reading that up friend?

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

Thats true!!!

Every 15 years .. with change of time... we will see new Mahabharata... it never gets old.... none of them are bad...

Specially I liked the new one on Star Plus!!!

This new mahabharat is based on part lies to glorify the Pandavas. Important events have been missed out.

1. In new one, Only Bheem insults Karna in the arena, but in reality both Arjun and Bheem Insults karna paving for the rivalry.
2. Karna-Duryodhan friendship, the cornerstone of the epic is rarely shown.
3. In the war, All the Kauravas son's take part , and are killed, but none are shown. Even Karna's sons were involved, and his eldest son was about to kill Nakula, when arjun intervenes and kill him.
4. The decision to continue the fight in the night with the intention to bring ghatotkacha was taken by Krishna and not Duryodhan as shown in tv...

Like wise many.

 

[Somras]

Dwarka - has been found and also dating tests are proving it to be much much older than previously thought


also in case of Dwarka it is said that the Original Dwarka had been submerged in sea due to rise in sea levels and new dwarka had been built

Now does the rise and fall of global sea level correspond to climate change, ice age (formaing and melting of ice in glaciers/poles ) is it cyclic in nature (not due to pollution/global warming ?)

see if these things happened in those times also then

the bogey of global warming due to pollution comes up naught

or

we have to accept that even in those times global warming / pollution happened and those times too faced these challenge also then we have to accept that those people were not backward as we think of them today also it needs to be researched what caused global/warming pollution ICE melting in those times

Ramayan and Mahabharat throwns up such interesting questions and perspctives

 

[ptltejas]

I liked both the stories from my Childhood, but did you watch Ancient Aliens??

Does any one know, just like Shias and Sunnis of Islam, Hinduism also had two main sects quarreling or had serious differences among them selves? "Shaiba Bhaktas" followers of Shiva and "Baishanbas" followers of Vishnu. May be thousands of years ago.

@INDIC @TejasMk3 @Kinetic @ExtraOdinary @Nova2 @ptltejas @DesiGuy @kaykay @SarthakGanguly @GURU DUTT

Well there were many different theories of Hinduism that people fight with together; like "Shakism", "Shaivism" and "Vaishnava"'; All believe that they are Better and Best; All have own experience and believe that to be the best, One have "Gulabjamun" and belive its best, and Second one is having "Rasgulla" and believe it is best; But ultimately Everything is same; Its like Destination is same only ways are different. So ultimately on any path you reach finally is the same "Destination"; Its Ignorance or say "Maya" which lead to all to believe that they are best, but all is one and only.

The fight of it is also on the base of the 'Dvait"(Duality) and "Advait"(Non-Duality), Some believe that there is only One God and only to pray it, where as other believe that, God have different Avtaras, and pray to all such Gods Avtaras, Different swaroop of same God, the thing is that that, the Fight is because of maya, knowlegee do not fight on it (the example is the Samosha is made from Wheat, Kachori is made form the Wheat, Roti is made from the wheat, Parotha is made from Wheat, Bread is made from wheat, Maggie is made from Wheat, So ultimately everything is wheat, so to pray the One God only and not its swaroopa, but other believe that Roti is not Bread, Bread is Not Samosha, Samosha is not Kachori, every one have its own existence and difference and hence to pray no. of God (Dvait), ) .

This all is Maya, amongst number of blind some touch tail of elephant and believe elephant is thin, some touch its leg and believe its like big stambha, some touch body and believe its have huge body, some touch ear and believe its like of different kind, but once you get the Vision of Gyana, that when you see the elephant you understand everything is same and one. The fight between Dvait and Advait is because of Maya (ignorance) only. You may pray both.

[well lets see this example in science As per physics, whatever you see is the Energy, Like Whatever you see is made from the Elements, Direct pure Elements or Composition of Numeber of Elemets, [see Chemical element - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table]; Hence if you see water it is made from hydrozen and oxizen, so they are pure element in periodic table, The Diamond, Graphite, Coal all are the Carbon which is element No. 6 in the periodic table; hence Whatever you see, is made from purely of Element(like oxizen) or compositon of the elements (like water of hydrozen and oxizen, or fuels as hydrocarban hydrozen and carbon));
If you Break the all those elements, You will found all is made from the Proton, Neutron and Electron
If you break proton, Neutron and Electron it would be made of sub Atoms
If you break those sub Atoms you will find God Particle (Energy);
So whatever you see is made from the Energy and that is the final, you, me, indian land, pakistani land, plane, missiles, water, air, diamond, animals, everything what you see and what you cant see is only the Energy that is Physics)
Same way everything is made of God........ and that is ultimate knowledge, We all are in the God, and made of God, nothing is possible without God, even not Space..........

And also Whatever you call that ultimate "Iswar" "Allah", or "God" he is the same only none of Hindu, muslim and Chritian have ever seen the Ultimate but believe that supreme force, and give them own name and fight for such, but ultimately we all pray the supreme force who created all of us and hence it is same only, if they were different there were competition between them to make powerful their own believers, But, No Muslim have capacity to fight, No Hindu have Four Hands, No chritian have some extraordinary capacity, we all are equal with equal body, cause our God is same, in whatever name you call him........that "Supreme", is Allah, God and Iswar, which is different name (Noun) only;
You see the Ocean and give it name "sagar" in Gujarati its "Dariya" somewhere else its "Sea" but its only different name of the same thing The "Ocean".

 

[ExtraOdinary]

I liked both the stories from my Childhood, but did you watch Ancient Aliens??

Does any one know, just like Shias and Sunnis of Islam, Hinduism also had two main sects quarreling or had serious differences among them selves? "Shaiba Bhaktas" followers of Shiva and "Baishanbas" followers of Vishnu. May be thousands of years ago.

@INDIC @TejasMk3 @Kinetic @ExtraOdinary @Nova2 @ptltejas @DesiGuy @kaykay @SarthakGanguly @GURU DUTT

Did these guys also used to behead each other

 

[Somras]

I liked both the stories from my Childhood, but did you watch Ancient Aliens??

Does any one know, just like Shias and Sunnis of Islam, Hinduism also had two main sects quarreling or had serious differences among them selves? "Shaiba Bhaktas" followers of Shiva and "Baishanbas" followers of Vishnu. May be thousands of years ago.

@INDIC @TejasMk3 @Kinetic @ExtraOdinary @Nova2 @ptltejas @DesiGuy @kaykay @SarthakGanguly @GURU DUTT

well there are 33 crore + dei devatas

and each one is free to beleive in anyone

also there is difference between

shia -sunni

shaiva - vaishnava

while shia / sunni follow the same god/prophet the difference is in true heirarchy afterwards / true heir of the prophet

while in shiv / vishnu the followers have 2 different gods to follow

 

[INDIC]

I liked both the stories from my Childhood, but did you watch Ancient Aliens??

Does any one know, just like Shias and Sunnis of Islam, Hinduism also had two main sects quarreling or had serious differences among them selves? "Shaiba Bhaktas" followers of Shiva and "Baishanbas" followers of Vishnu. May be thousands of years ago.

@INDIC @TejasMk3 @Kinetic @ExtraOdinary @Nova2 @ptltejas @DesiGuy @kaykay @SarthakGanguly @GURU DUTT

Shiva and Vishnu belong to Hindu trinity signifying the three natures of God in Hinduism and Hinduism is incomplete without the idea of trinity.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Did these guys also used to behead each other

No. But I read they used to abuse each other We are Shaivaites. But a member of ISKCON as well!!!

Faith should unite people, being a Shaivite is not a negation of a Vaishnavism.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

No. But I read they used to abuse each other We are Shaivaites. But a member of ISKCON as well!!!

Faith should unite people, being a Shaivite is not a negation of a Vaishnavism.

Same here, I have noticed that Shiva is the patron god for majority of people in Himalayan states. Vishnu becomes more popular as we move down South. Is this trend true?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Same here, I have noticed that Shiva is the patron god for majority of people in Himalayan states. Vishnu becomes more popular as we move down South. Is this trend true?

Not entirely. Again in the far South Shiva becomes more popular. Guess Shiva predated Vishnu avatars. I am not knowledgeable in these matters. Perhaps @levina's favorite Manvan ( ) can help.

Who really knows?
Who will here proclaim it?
Whence was it produced?
Whence is this creation?
The gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe.
Who then knows whence it has arisen?
Whence this creation has arisen
- perhaps it formed itself, or perhaps it did not -
the One who looks down on it,
in the highest heaven, only He knows
or perhaps He does not know.

Seriously. Hawking would be impressed.

 

[drunken-monke]

Ramayana and Mahabharata is not religious Book.. Koran and Bible are religious book. Ramayana and Mahabharata doesn't give any religious code of conduct.

So what are these?
1. Ramayana: Its about a young prince who is ideal man (Maryada Purushottam), he is a good son (obey father) good husband (save wife from other king) good king (kept public wish on top) and good husband (instead of being king he loved only one women)(in old indian culture monogamy was practiced, but king has option to follow polygamy).

2. Mahabharata: it is an epic which depict story family feud , power struggle etc.

Q. Do educated Hindus in India even religious ones regard these epics as just mythology or fiction?
A: Its mythology not fiction
Q. Do the events in these epics relate to any historical incident if so how?
A: could be , But lot of fiction has been added to make the story more interesting.
Q. And please recommend a good English translation of them, so that I can read..
A: you can watch some cartoons and online translations are available.

Mythology is a word introduced by Britishers to our religious epics...

1. Ram Setu: Today called as Adam's bridge is a evidence of Ramayana
2. Evidences from Srilanka (previously Lanka) proves that Ramayana was not myth but true epic.
3. Ramtek: The place where Lord Ram along with Sita and Laxman stayed briefly is near Nagpur.
4. Trimbakeshwar: A famous place near Nashik where Lord Ram along with Sita and Laxman spent most of their exile in Forest.
5. Kishkindha: Todays Karnataka was Bali's kingdom
6. Rameshwaram is at southern end of India where lord Ram worshiped Lord Shiva
7. You would find the floating stones near Rameshwar and Dhanushkodi which were claimed to be used for building of bridge (Ramsetu)
8. Ashok Watika still exist and Srilankan Government claimed so...

There may be certain things exaggerated in the epic, but Ramayana is not myth.. Infact it tells us how we should live...

About Mahabharata:

1. Town Hastinapur still exist which was capital of Kuru clan
2. Indraprasta is today's Delhi and Purana Killa (fort) which is deemed to be the fort build by Pandavas still exist..
3. Kingdoms like Panchala, Magadha, Gandhara existed till medieval India..
4. Archeologist found a complete city emerged in sea off the coast of Gujarat. This is believed to be Dwarika..
5. Birthplace of Krishna, Mathura, still exist today at the bank of river Yamuna..
6. Sarswati River disappeared which is told in Mahabharat.. Geologist suggested that sessemic actions made the river disappear and same has been foretold in mahabharata..
7. Ancient war evidences were recovered from Kurukshetra dates back to more than 5000 years old..
8. It is foretold in Mahabharata that Hastinapur got wiped out in floods which occured after 36 years of Mahabharata..
9. Barbarik was the mightiest warrier but never had a chance to fight.. His story depicts a tree of peepal near town of Hisar got pierced by his arrows.. It is still there..
10. Shikhar Varnavat is still there where Pandava were faced mortal danger of being burned alive by Kaurava..
11. Near Manali, Devi hidimba temple is still there who was considered wife of Bheema..
12. This is one i consider may be Myth, when Lord shiva visited Pandava in the form of Bull. During the Mahabharata war or Kurukshetra war, their act could be pardoned only by Lord Shiva. Consequently, the Pandavas went in search of Shiva who was avoiding them since he was convinced of the guilt of Pandavas. In order to keep away from them, Shiva took the form of a bull and went into hiding in an underground safe haven at Guptakashi, where Pandavas chased him. But later Shiva’s body in the form of bull’s body parts rematerialized at five different locations that represent the “Panch Kedar” where Pandavas built temples of Lord Shiva at each location, to worship and venerate, seeking his pardon and blessings. Each one is identified with a part of his body; Tungnath is identified as the place where the bahu (hands) were seen: hump was seen at Kedarnath; head appeared at Rudranath; his navel and stomach surfaced at Madhyamaheshwar; and his jata (hair or locks) at Kalpeshwar..

If you have knowledge, prove me wrong, otherwise don't term these two greatest epics as Myth..

Ramayana and Mahabharata is not religious Book.. Koran and Bible are religious book. Ramayana and Mahabharata doesn't give any religious code of conduct.

So what are these?
1. Ramayana: Its about a young prince who is ideal man (Maryada Purushottam), he is a good son (obey father) good husband (save wife from other king) good king (kept public wish on top) and good husband (instead of being king he loved only one women)(in old indian culture monogamy was practiced, but king has option to follow polygamy).

2. Mahabharata: it is an epic which depict story family feud , power struggle etc.

Q. Do educated Hindus in India even religious ones regard these epics as just mythology or fiction?
A: Its mythology not fiction
Q. Do the events in these epics relate to any historical incident if so how?
A: could be , But lot of fiction has been added to make the story more interesting.
Q. And please recommend a good English translation of them, so that I can read..
A: you can watch some cartoons and online translations are available.

Yes they do give... Forgot Shrimadbhagwat geeta??? Since these books are quite old, they can't be dubbed as myth...