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Question about Indian Administered Kashmir

I haven't met an Kashmiri Muslim but there were few Kashmiri (Pandits) there in my neighbourhood in Delhi. I have heard horrifying experiences of their families about how Kashmiri Pandits were burnt alive or otherwise shot dead and how they escaped with their families from the terror (started in 1989 after Soviet war in Afghanistan) and in the process few of their Family member got killed as well. All of them wants to go back to their homes in Kashmir and are Pro-India. Talking about Indian Kashmiri muslims, If we go by Pakistani perception about Kashmir then why the hell would 65-70% of them vote in Indian elections for Pro-India CM. In the same elections, some of the separatist leaders participated as well but failed badly. :azn:
In the previous posts, somebody said that sentiments were Pro-pakistan around 70s then I want to ask why didn't Pakistan army got the necessary public support they were looking for in 1965 war and more recently in Kargil War.

I see the only one problem in Kashmir Valley and that is unemployment and lack of education because of which at times they become victims of venom spitting paid sponsors of Terrorism in Valley who uses religion card all the time.
 
Indian occupation of Kashmir is illegal and illogical and against all norms and customs.

It is worst form of slavery, where one Indian Army men is pointing his rifle on 5 Kashmirs. This ratio had no where been seen in last 5000 years.

Recent economical progress have given them new confidence and now indians have become more vocal for not listening to rationale or Kashmiri's voice for freedom.

Pakistan has also pulled out from helping militant Kashmiri groups due world opinion.

Once all doors are closed, than, there is one way - the way Muslims know since long.

Do and die - India is forcing Kashmiris to adopt this way.

Who will be looser at the End - I foresee it will be dis-integrated India.

India is trying push where beginning of its end will start rolling.

Joke of the century :hitwall:
 
Well its a topic that Pakistani members will say they want to stay with Pakistan and Indian members will say they want to stay with India.......

Only one way.....Let there be a referendum .....Clean and clear under supervision of countries who have no interest like Indonesia, Malaysia ,Azerbaijan or south africa etc etc.
 
Well its a topic that Pakistani members will say they want to stay with Pakistan and Indian members will say they want to stay with India.......

Only one way.....Let there be a referendum .....Clean and clear under supervision of countries who have no interest like Indonesia, Malaysia ,Azerbaijan or south africa etc etc.

wat referendum?those who want to go with pak,border is open.but kashmir wont move even a single centimeter.i think pak shud care 4 himself.rather than taking interst in kashmir.
 
Well its a topic that Pakistani members will say they want to stay with Pakistan and Indian members will say they want to stay with India.......

Only one way.....Let there be a referendum .....Clean and clear under supervision of countries who have no interest like Indonesia, Malaysia ,Azerbaijan or south africa etc etc.

No let us take countries like Fiji, Mauritius, Nepal, Burma and Sri Lanka and yes South Africa is fine....

Read and then respond, I do not want you to miss the point just as I did not miss your point....
 
Firstly, let me state right away that I did not intend for this to become a flame war as I am well aware of how sensitive an issue this can be. This is why I insisted that members keep it healthy and informative else it would sadly become comprised of puns and derailing arguments as is the case with a majority of Indo-Pak topics.

Secondly, I actually have been doing some research independently on this. As I have said before, there is a plethora of information regarding this on the Internet but it is quiet tainted depending on the source as with other Indo-Pak matters. To complement my own fact finding I posted this question here, a Pakistani forum and also at another forum.

Thirdly, in most of the findings which I have made, I come across some re-occurring points and they have only been stressed upon further here. These address the socio-economic and ethno-religious ground realties.

As to the ethno-religious bit, they largely rotate around how Kashmir is geographically partitioned into three localities based on religious affiliation-- Hindu-majority Jammu, Buddhist-majority Ladakh, and the more populous valley with it's overwhelming Muslim population. The majority segments of the regions aside, the religious distribution of people in Indian Kashmir is mixed in all three. Based on this point, Ladakh and Jammu are more orientated towards New Delhi's point of view concerning Kashmir. The Valley region remains the more contentious one.

As to the socio-economic bit, those that have stood in having derived the greatest benefit from Indian rule, and those who are in the higher echelons of the society, seem to be more in favor of association with India-- the ethno-religious elements plays it's part here as well. The same case is made concerning the intelligentsia, the better job-positioned and educated segment of the population. When this is put in context to the Valley alone, the reasoning is not as fluid. Those in the valley hailing from lower-halves of the social order exhibit the lowest pro-India sentiment. This is further complicated by security measures and certain policies which have been placed whom they see as adding to a curtailment of their rights.

The majority of the consensus derived from Kashmiri Internet blogs is that the Valley Muslims associate themselves more closely with neighboring Pakistan due mainly to religious similarity. This is so much so that Pakistan finds mention in each and every debate as do Pakistan's own shortcomings and tribulations. This however does not translate into a Pro-Pakistan sentiment outright. From what I have read thus far, most seek close ties and association with Pakistan rather than seeing themselves as being Pakistani-- i.e close association rather than unity under a common state. There is a Pakistan-unionist sentiment as well but the amount of it's existence is question to open debate. The overriding identity that is most valued in the valley is simply being Kashmiri though. As such, concerning the Valley alone, a view of independence from both entities (Pakistan and India) holds much debate, however, they remain quiet divided on how it is to be arrived at, whether it is even pragmatic, or more importantly how they would see their future once and if it is even achieved. Hence, Kashmiris remain as divided themselves regarding their own position as do others regarding their opinion of themselves.

Lastly, the above is what I have gathered and formulated based on my own reasoning from available Internet sources and pages on this forum. I have not visited India myself let alone Indian Kashmir for that matter. I'm not an authority on the subject and my interest itself is rather recent. The above are some general observations which I have come across. I look forward to comments regarding them.
 
Pasban, i have met indian Kashmiris in middleast... the moment you ask them such question...... they start weeping.

What ever you see on web is hardly 10% of what Kashmiris have really faced.

In any case the india occupied Kashmir militarily.
In return UN has passed resolution which demand india to hold plebicite and grant freedom and basic rights to Kashmiri people.

BTW... this is not the only Muslim majority state which was invaded by indina army.
Thousands of Muslims were killed indiscriminately when India invaded Hyderabad and continued the genocide to reduce Muslim population.
In Kashmir Indian army applied same formulae as they applied in Hyderabad but Kashmiri resistance became internationalized as a result of indo-pak wars for obvious reasons of border issues.

Now i'm very glad that you have been to Pakistani Kashmir, you should have visited the reffuge camp.

Today, the status is dispute....
I wish you good luck with your work.
 
Genocide against muslims in Kashmir and Hyderabad?? when did that happen? Why do you insist on playing the victim card? Can't you see the falsehoods spread in propagating this myth is only leading to more anger in your society? This anger ironically results in more blood shed in your own society.
 
Salam...

I have read past discussions amongst Pakistanis and Indians regarding their views on Indian-administered Kashmir. The majority of discussions (largely composed of puns) rotate around which nation Kashmir as a whole should be a part of and about the human plight within Indian administered Kashmir. I have visited Pakistani Kashmir but the stay was too short to speak to locals (was also disadvantaged being a foreigner). I have always had one question though which seems to be neglected in all such discussions.

What are the honest opinions of members here regarding what Indian Kashmiris themselves (and themselves alone) think of their position-- Is there a strong Pakistan sentiment amongst Indian Kashmiris or do they rather wish for independence from both or is the majority satisfied with New Delhi as their capital?

I already know what views the respective governments hold, I want reference to the peoples own will only. I would really wish that Indian and especially Kashmiri members contribute. I know this is a rather sensitive question but I hope the answers remain healthy and informative.

Well, the Indian official position is the whole of J&K including the part of Pakistan and China (yes China also controls a part of the state that they took over in 1962) is part ofJ&K.

The Pakistani official position is that the entire J&K state excluding the parts under Chinese control should belong to Pakistan and cite UN referendum to settle the dispute. The UN referendum allows choice ofchoosing only India or Pakistan.

There have been a couple of compromise positions made. For example, making LoC as the final border after 1971 war and partitioning of J&K state along religious lines by allowing the valley to secede under Vajpayee & Nawaz Sharief and most recently and the most achievable 4-point formula under Singh and Musharraf.

There have been a number of surveys done in J&K state on the Indian side and Pakistani Kashmir by various organisations. These have missed out Gilgit Baltistan areas which are part of J&K state but access is extremely restricted so there is no information about how the people over there feel.

PeacePolls.org ran their survey in 2008, it was in the aftermath of the Amarnath lan controversy.
Peace polls, an effective approach in helping resolve conflict


Chatham house completed their survey around May this year.It also points to a similar result as the Peacepolls.org survey.
http://www.chathamhouse.org.uk/files/16664_0510pp_kashmir.pdf
 
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There was a strong Pakistan sentiment among the kashmiris in the 90s,but today very few Kashmiris want to join Pakistan .Majority of the Kashmiris want a separate country .But majority of the educated Kashmiris are pro India.I have 3 Kashmiri friends who are completely pro India.I met a Kashmiri engineer on a flight from Delhi to hyderabad and he told me that he and most of his friends are all pro India.

The pro-Pakistani sentiment was a fringe element always. The JKLF which was the biggest indigeneous militant group in the 90s and consisted of Hindu and Sikh militants as well were all fighting for an independant secular J&K.

However, the pro-pakistan section has the support of groups like Hizb and LeT e.t.c. which were better trained and had suppost of Pakistani establishment and post 1994 played the major role in militancy.
 
Lets put the whole facts on the table

9 million Kashmiris live in India occupied Kashmir.

Popluation of Jammu is 370,000

Hindu Population in Jammu:

~65% - 240,000.

Sikh Population in Jammu:

~4% - 14,000

Muslim Population in Jammu:

~30% - 111,000

Error Rate of Above Figures:

~ +/- 1% (3,700)
I am not sure where you got this from but this is quite out of date. According to the 2001 census here are the correct figures.


Kashmir (53.9% of total J&K population) 5,476,970
Muslim 97.16%
Hindus 1.84%
Sikhs 0.88%
Buddhist 0.11%


Jammu (43.7% of total J&K population) 4,430,191
Muslim 30.69%
Hindus 65.23%
Sikhs 3.57%
Buddhist 0.51%


Ladakh (2.3% of total J&K population) 236,539
Muslim 47.40%
Hindus 6.22%
Sikh –
Buddhist 45.87%

Jammu & Kashmir total 10,143,700
Muslim 66.97%
Hindus 29.63%
Sikh 2.03%
Buddhist 1.36%


One thing to note is that many Kashmir Hindus (aka Kashmir Pandits) migrated out of the valley during the militancy as they were being trageted and the govt. was not providing enough protection. Most of these IDPs are settled in Jammu but many of them have also migrated onto other part of India as well. They are estimated to number around 150,000-300,000 by variuos agencies.

Source: Census of India - Administrative divisions
 
Genocide against muslims in Kashmir and Hyderabad?? when did that happen? Why do you insist on playing the victim card? Can't you see the falsehoods spread in propagating this myth is only leading to more anger in your society? This anger ironically results in more blood shed in your own society.

Hyderabadi army fought till the last man droped.
After that what indian army did to the Muslims of Hyderabad was horrible tale.
I strongly suggest Pasban first, to read the history of Hyderabad occupation and various other genocide of Muslims in india including the genocide of migrating Muslims at the time of partion.
This will give a good insight of a mentality which is occupying Kashmir and than you decide why Indian army should treat Kashmiri Muslims any different?
Specially, when occupied Kashmiris celebrate Pakistan's independence day by raising Pakistani flag and burning Indina flag.
 
Hyderabadi army fought till the last man droped.
After that what indian army did to the Muslims of Hyderabad was horrible tale.
I strongly suggest Pasban first, to read the history of Hyderabad occupation and various other genocide of Muslims in india including the genocide of migrating Muslims at the time of partion.
This will give a good insight of a mentality which is occupying Kashmir and than you decide why Indian army should treat Kashmiri Muslims any different?
Specially, when occupied Kashmiris celebrate Pakistan's independence day by raising Pakistani flag and burning Indina flag.

Pasban. You should read the history. Make sure you read an unbiased source. Also make sure you read up on the history of the Razakars. Also read up about the way a powerful minority was violently trampling upon the rights and wishes of the overwhelming majority. Read up and decide for yourself.

As regards to the way the victim mentality drives extremists in your society, you don't have to search too hard. Check the front page of the forum right now.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-fo...es-square-bomber-faisal-shahzad-surfaces.html
 

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