Question about Aircrafts coming to PAF

[SparklingCrescent]

hi... for quit a while, ive been very confused about one question, and its buggin me too much so im gonna ask it... and im sorry if its already answered, its jus that I barely have anytime on my laptop.... well, I was jus wonderin, how many types of planes are coming to pakistan... I arready know bout JF-17, and J-10... but I sumtimes here in this forum about JF-17X, J-XX etc...are we getting these tooo???... yah this is pretty much it... thanks yall for answerin...

 

[PAFAce]

I know what you mean. Sometimes this forum can be confusing. Rumors are presented as facts, so you have to be very careful what you believe. A good idea is to always ask for the source if not provided. Since I have been in your situation, I'll try to help you out even if nobody else can be bothered.

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Right now, the things on the radar are:

Fighters

18 F-16 Block 50/52+ - delivery starts 2010, though many senior members doubt this will ever happen. There is an option for 18 more after the delivery of the first 18, if at all.

36 J-10B/FC-20 - delivery starts 2014/2015. Some also say that we might induct some 18 J-10As on a stop-gap basis due to some mirky PAF interviews, but that is unlikely unless the situation changes.

JF-17 - production and induction will continue and Pakistan will slowly gain a larger portion of manufacturing. It is widely believed and highly likely (due to various PAF claims) that later versions of the JF-17 will be upgraded, possibly after the first 50. A new Chinese engine, Western avionics, more hardpoints, some minor IR signature and RCS reduction etc. are all possible and likely improvements. A total of 250 will supposedly be inducted in the end, 150 of which have currently been ordered.

AWACS

3 SAAB 2000 Erieye AEW&C Systems - 1 trainer has already been delivered, but actual AWAC delivery is listed as 2009/2010, so we should be getting our first anytime now, if at all. Also, we reduced the total number being acquired to make room for Chinese AWAC systems, so the number could fall further.

4 KJ-200/ZDK-03 AEW&C Systems - delivery is expected to begin 2010-2011, but there is very little information about this deal as far as I know. Romors have it that the main reason for PAF interest in the Chinese AWAC systems is due to the possibility of Technology Transfer. Pakistan may also be involved in minor design tweaks to better fit our needs. These are all credible rumors, in my opinion, as the Swedish system is widely regarded as the technologically superior one.

Aerial Refuellers

4 Il-78MP - 2 have already been delivered, the other 2 are expected 2009-2011.

Trainers

K-8 Karakorum - Acquisition and induction will continue. Pakistan was previously supposed to produce these, but now they will be buy them from the Chinese to make room for JF-17 manufacturing in Pakistan. Therefore, I expect we will now induct fewer than 60, as was previously thought.

MFI-17 Mushshak + MFI-395 Super Mushshak - Production and induction is expected to continue on a needs-basis. I don't think too many more will be needed anytime soon.

More Credible Rumors
Not all rumors are ridiculous, some have some sense, but which ones are credible is debatable. Here is what I think are credible.

Pakistan Air Force is always on the lookout for cheap Mirages. Some say that UAE Mirage-2000s will be made available to the PAF, and given our history with Mirages, we might seriously consider them for a med-tech role. This I deem to be a credible rumor, if the price is right.

It is also widely rumored and recognized that the Chinese are working on at least one (possibly two) 5th generation fighter projects (this is what is often referred to as J-XX, J-13, J-14 etc.) There are really no credible reports, but the many Chinese and Pakitanis seem to be very confident of this (and not just on this forum). I believe it is likely that the Chinese would at least try to design one, even if it is never produced (keyword is try, as they may not succeed). If the Chinese do build one, it is not unlikely that Pakistan could acquire them to counter the relatively real future threat of the Indian PAK-FA (I don't think PAF would be too bothered about the MCA right now). I deem this to be a credible rumor, given that the J-XX becomes a reality. However, don't hold your breath.

It is also likely that some further design work on the JF-17 might take place in Pakistan. This topic is not widely debated, but I think that once we've produced a good amount, we'll try to tinker with it a bit, just as we did with our Mirages.
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That is all I can think of right now. My numbers may be completely off, in which case, I am sure someone will correct them. This post has turned out longer than I had expected, but it's all good. I hope this helps you buddy.

 

[hj786]

Nice one PAFAce, just some minor points:

JF-17 - production and induction will continue and Pakistan will slowly gain a larger portion of manufacturing. It is widely believed and highly likely (due to various PAF claims) that later versions of the JF-17 will be upgraded, possibly after the first 50. A new Chinese engine, Western avionics, more hardpoints, some minor IR signature and RCS reduction etc. are all possible and likely improvements. A total of 250 will supposedly be inducted in the end, 150 of which have currently been ordered.

An Infra-Red Search and Track system also to be fitted

AWACS

3 SAAB 2000 Erieye AEW&C Systems - 1 trainer has already been delivered, but actual AWAC delivery is listed as 2009/2010, so we should be getting our first anytime now, if at all. Also, we reduced the total number being acquired to make room for Chinese AWAC systems, so the number could fall further.

I'm pretty sure that's 4 Erieye-equipped Saab 2000 AEWC plus the 1 trainer aircraft, 5 Saab 2000 total.


Aerial Refuellers

4 Il-78MP - 2 have already been delivered, the other 2 are expected 2009-2011.

Not sure about this one, some sources (including the inside guys over at PakDef.info) say the delivered aircraft were on temporary lease and have returned to Ukraine. Might want to add a small note about that.

Trainers

K-8 Karakorum - Acquisition and induction will continue. Pakistan was previously supposed to produce these, but now they will be buy them from the Chinese to make room for JF-17 manufacturing in Pakistan. Therefore, I expect we will now induct fewer than 60, as was previously thought.

I'd expect more deliveries for replacing the T-37 and FT-5.

Pakistan Air Force is always on the lookout for cheap Mirages. Some say that UAE Mirage-2000s will be made available to the PAF, and given our history with Mirages, we might seriously consider them for a med-tech role. This I deem to be a credible rumor, if the price is right.

Not credible in my opinion, PAF are serious about the JF, FC-20 and F-16. Not a lot of room left, lets be honest. Those M2k will always be too expensive, especially compared to upgraded F-16. They are nothing like the Mirage III.

It is also likely that some further design work on the JF-17 might take place in Pakistan. This topic is not widely debated, but I think that once we've produced a good amount, we'll try to tinker with it a bit, just as we did with our Mirages.

Avionics certainly, but anything to the airframe would most likely require consultancy from the Chinese. Unless you mean stuff that is already factored in, like aerial refuelling probes and so on.

 

[TOPGUN]

Sounds about right! i am very interested knowing wat goes down with our new f-16's and also the rumor about the UAE mirage 2000's!

 

[HAIDER]

Plz avoid opening too many question threads. Question can be asked in AF question threads.

 

[PAFAce]

An Infra-Red Search and Track system also to be fitted

Ofcourse. But these are all speculation, right? Nobody knows exactly what will be upgraded. These are intelligent guesses.

I'm pretty sure that's 4 Erieye-equipped Saab 2000 AEWC plus the 1 trainer aircraft, 5 Saab 2000 total.

My bad. I thought we had reduced the number to 3 in favour of the KJ-200.

Not sure about this one, some sources (including the inside guys over at PakDef.info) say the delivered aircraft were on temporary lease and have returned to Ukraine. Might want to add a small note about that.

I had no idea about this. That would suck. Delivery of the tankers is supposed to have started last year.

I'd expect more deliveries for replacing the T-37 and FT-5.

Ofcourse we will, but I don't think we'll get as many as 60, as was originally planned, because we will not be producing them locally.

Not credible in my opinion, PAF are serious about the JF, FC-20 and F-16. Not a lot of room left, lets be honest. Those M2k will always be too expensive, especially compared to upgraded F-16. They are nothing like the Mirage III.

Well ofcourse. However, the PAF will always seize an opportunity at good-deal Mirages, provided that it is an amazing deal. I think we've developed somewhat of an affection for them.

Avionics certainly, but anything to the airframe would most likely require consultancy from the Chinese. Unless you mean stuff that is already factored in, like aerial refuelling probes and so on.

Yes, you are correct. We do not have the expertise for airframe design modification currently. I mentioned Mirage III-type modifications/upgrades (ROSE-I) could be possible. Also, once we've produced a good amount of JF-17s, we'll have the experience to tinker with the airframe slightly as well, but definitely with Chinese consultation.

 

[mean_bird]

Ofcourse. But these are all speculation, right? Nobody knows exactly what will be upgraded. These are intelligent guesses.

There will definitely be an IRST. Its not a speculation, its even mentioned on the PAC website and it was repeated in one of the interviews I have read.

Ofcourse we will, but I don't think we'll get as many as 60, as was originally planned, because we will not be producing them locally.

I think we do manufacture some part of it (front fuselage?), no?

Well ofcourse. However, the PAF will always seize an opportunity at good-deal Mirages, provided that it is an amazing deal. I think we've developed somewhat of an affection for them.

Even if a deal is made about the mirages, the UAE won't let them go until they recieve the replacement Rafales, which might take some time.
Unless Zardari is still interested in the deal, I somehow do not think that acquiring ex-UAE Mirages is under any serious consideration.

Yes, you are correct. We do not have the expertise for airframe design modification currently. I mentioned Mirage III-type modifications/upgrades (ROSE-I) could be possible. Also, once we've produced a good amount of JF-17s, we'll have the experience to tinker with the airframe slightly as well, but definitely with Chinese consultation.

The first few modifications would be IFR (which probably they have already figured out), introducing extra hardpoint(s), integrating avionics, launching ALCM(if that need modification), and carry non-conventional weapons when the need arises.

I think you need to give the platform some time to mature before thinking any drastic modifications. Its too early in its lifetime to start thinking of modifications.

 

[SparklingCrescent]

PAFAce, thanks yarrrr, atleast sumone understands wat im talkin bout....

 

[Mujahid91]

the only doubt i have is PAF might not get F-16 Blk 52 US will never gave it Paksitan its arch enemy and so called "WAR ON TERROR" friend

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Assessing the current situation---I don't see any problems with us getting the blk 52---this plane does not tilt the power balance in favour of pakistan---so there is no reason to stop delivery of this plane.

 

[MZUBAIR]

I read a statement of Rao Qamar Suleman few days ago that he wants to buy 26 used F-16.

I am looking references, any one else who read about it

 

[Sunny4pak]

Aoa,
any source about delivery or snap about Il 78 MP ....................

 

[BlackenTheSky]

Aoa,
any source about delivery or snap about Il 78 MP ....................

yeah i have seen various images of two tankers standing on pakistan surface...

 

[ice_man]

@PAF ACE

i agree with most of your procurement details you have listed! however, currently the contract for ZDK-03 hasn't been signed neither has the contract for J-10B OFFICIALLY signed! i hope it does get signed quickly.....cuz currently we are even getting our very own JFs on soft loans i guess money is a major problem facing our starved airforce....

as for Mirages i read somewhere that DASSAULT asked india to pay 30 million dollars per fighter for upgrade.... i don't think SORRY MASTAN SIR( i know you are a die hard Mirage man)...but i really don't think UAE will just hand out the fighter....and paying a huge price for the fighters is soething that we can't do....unfortunately our leaders have been corrupted to a point where they are leeches!

 

[DaRk WaVe]

@ PAFace

Any credible info that we are talking to UAE about M2k-9

The Price of these platforms will be some where less than 20 million per piece, The price of these platforms is just right & they can be a good replacement for old Mirage III & V Fleet (excluding ROSE mirages, of course)