Queen's Rep of Indian orgin Resigns Over Pakistani Comments

[Raja.Pakistani]

@Kharral if you or some others Pakistani feel the need to learn some civility, manners, courtesy and adab-e-majlis from this idiot then sure go ahead and attend his lectures because you feel he is right but please dont expect that every single Pakistani need them and that was the whole point of this debate.

I found it offensive that he just targeted pakistani community when others group of Somalian,afghan, polish,Chinese,bengali and indian sardar and others Europeans very much same as they also make their own grouping and gathering wherever they are in majority.I personally have friends from diverse background but you also should remember that many non muslims especially white preferred to be reserve so you cannot go there and hugs every non muslim brother in the name of multiculturalism lol Pakistani are very open warm hospitable people but not with those who prefer to be reserved or those with some attitude. He was probably ignored because of his attitide and others white british did not felt this way if you bother to read the article before jumping to defend his stupid statement

 

[bafxet]

Biased Indian and more disappointing but not surprising that as usual reported by Press TV only. They don't like Pakistanis and do I like them either.

Anyway, would someone go and tell this stupid Lieutenant that for the first time ever somebody form south asia has been nominated by a party for the Mayorship of London and he is nobody but Sadiq Khan a man of Pakistani dissent.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

How is it true when some goray are saying it isnt from THEIR experience?

Even a gora can call a spade a spade why cant you?

....

The guy said that Pakistanis need to start having dialogues with people other than themselves. Theres nothing wrong with what he said. Which he said politely even!

Apparently unhappy about the lack of respect he and colleagues were shown as the Queen’s representatives, he said:

“Pakistanis are lovely people individually but there is a lot of work to do to teach them basic common courtesy and civility.”

He went on: “They talk to themselves and do not engage with the wider community. They are living in the UK not Pakistan. Whilst being rightly proud of their Pakistani culture and heritage they need to explain better and engage more with their non-Pakistani brothers and sisters if they want their children to succeed as British Pakistani citizens.”

This is true! If you're living in a plural society you can't just selectively engage with your own people. In America you had 'Little Italy' 'Germantown', 'Chinatown' . Where people from the appropriate countries lived in.

You can't survive in a ethnic enclave for your entire life. Sure when your a recent immigrant to a new country you're automatically inclined to feel homesickness and desire to live with people of the same identity. But as you become comfortable you need to move out from a segregationist mentality.

When I cam to America, I was 4. I disliked going to school because my teacher would wear skirts. But what are you gong to do? Lock yourself into a box and demand everything go your way?

Don't shoot the messenger because he told you what you don't want to hear.

How is it true when some goray are saying it isnt from THEIR experience?

Even a gora can call a spade a spade why cant you?

....

The guy said that Pakistanis need to start having dialogues with people other than themselves. Theres nothing wrong with what he said. Which he said politely even!

Apparently unhappy about the lack of respect he and colleagues were shown as the Queen’s representatives, he said:

“Pakistanis are lovely people individually but there is a lot of work to do to teach them basic common courtesy and civility.”

He went on: “They talk to themselves and do not engage with the wider community. They are living in the UK not Pakistan. Whilst being rightly proud of their Pakistani culture and heritage they need to explain better and engage more with their non-Pakistani brothers and sisters if they want their children to succeed as British Pakistani citizens.”

This is true! If you're living in a plural society you can't just selectively engage with your own people. In America you had 'Little Italy' 'Germantown', 'Chinatown' . Where people from the appropriate countries lived in.

You can't survive in a ethnic enclave for your entire life. Sure when your a recent immigrant to a new country you're automatically inclined to feel homesickness and desire to live with people of the same identity. But as you become comfortable you need to move out from a segregationist mentality.

When I cam to America, I was 4. I disliked going to school because my teacher would wear skirts. But what are you gong to do? Lock yourself into a box and demand everything go your way?

Don't shoot the messenger because he told you what you don't want to hear.

 

[Dubious]

. Which he said politely even!

Polite would have been had he said it to THEM not to random people on personal email....

How will they know they need to fix this if they dont hear it and it has to be intercepted and exposed?

There is a fine line between telling them and bitching about them to another!

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Polite would have been had he said it to THEM not to random people on personal email....

How will they know they need to fix this if they dont hear it and it has to be intercepted and exposed?

There is a fine line between telling them and bitching about them to another!

You're right. You should tell him he's a racist, not people on this forum.

The guy was sent as a representative of the British Queen. There's a reason he was selected as one. If anything you need to demand NS fire the staff members at the consulate.

If I invite President Obama to an Eid Party i'm hosting and he decides to send someone on his behalf, what kind of host am I to selectively isolate that representative?

To be honest, i'm not surprised by the lack of respect or professionalism of the Consulate staff of an "Islamic Republic". It disappoints me more that you're misdirecting your angry rather than correcting the problem.

I found it offensive that he just targeted pakistani community when others group of Somalian,afghan, polish,Chinese,bengali and indian sardar and others Europeans very much same as they also make their own grouping and gathering wherever they are in majority.

He was at an event hosted by the Pakistani Consulate.

To be honest, i'm not surprised by the lack of respect or professionalism of the Consulate staff of an "Islamic Republic". It disappoints me more that you're misdirecting your angry rather than correcting the problem.

Pakistani People am I right? <--- Does that make me a racist?

 

[Dubious]

You're right. You should tell him he's a racist, not people on this forum.

Well he resigned....And I am not telling him coz he knows I am telling those people who are seeing nothing wrong with his statement and calling it constructive criticism without knowing the fine line between that an d bitching!

The guy was sent as a representative of the British Queen. There's a reason he was selected as one. If anything you need to demand NS fire the staff members at the consulate.

Why should that be? The others didnt have any problems

If I invite President Obama to an Eid Party i'm hosting and he decides to send someone on his behalf, what kind of host am I to selectively isolate that representative?

another MP also said what he thinks might have been the problem:

Another West Midlands MP, Roger Godsiff, who represents Birmingham Sparkbrook and Small Heath, was at the Independence Day event: “Based on my own visit to the Pakistani consulate in Birmingham on 14 August, it is surprising that Paul Sabapathy could make such sweeping generalisations. Perhaps the other attendees thought he was being a bit snooty and ignored him,” he said.

So maybe the problem was snobbish or hot air?

To be honest, i'm not surprised by the lack of respect or professionalism of the Consulate staff of an "Islamic Republic". It disappoints me more that you're misdirecting your angry rather than correcting the problem.

Anger? I am bemused at him wanting to be treated like a king with extra ordinary treatment though he is only a representative!

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

@Thəorətic Muslim you are also free to join his lectures of civility, common courtesy etc etc if you personally need them but dont speak for others Pakistani Muslims .

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

But Davinder Prasad, Bopa’s chief secretary, said Vaz and others were “making a meal out of it.”

He said: “Why should the lord lieutenant apologise? He was right in what he was saying. The Asian community, whether Sikh or Pakistani or Indian must learn. What he is doing is educating Asian people that they are in British society. They can’t behave as if they are still in Pakistan, India, Bangladesh or Sri Lanka. They must not just expect to get food on a plate. They must accept what British society has on offer, for example, tolerance and respect. We need to show respect to the British monarchy. Why must people try to make a meal out of what he said?”

He added: “I’m appalled if someone is asking him to apologise. We are very fond of the lord lieutenant and see him as a source of inspiration. We have nothing but respect for him. If somebody is being discourteous or impolite, the lord lieutenant is right to draw it to their attention. Anyone criticising him should look himself in the mirror.”

Andrew Mitchell, the Conservative MP for Sutton Coldfield and secretary of state for international development, praised Sabapathy for his “superb work across the area” and good relations with the Pakistani community, and said something must have gone “awry” on Independence Day.

In his resignation statement, Sabapathy wrote: “As an immigrant myself, coming to the UK 51 years ago not knowing anyone and the first non-white lord lieutenant ever, I have been conscious of my duty to engage with and support all communities in their endeavour and to ensure they are represented fairly and without discrimination.

“Those who know me will, I am sure, confirm I am a great advocate of the Muslim and Pakistani communities – in the same way that I support all of those in the region, no matter their colour, creed or beliefs. Collaboration and engagement are at the heart of all my work. There is not one iota of prejudice on my part and I am deeply sorry for the upset I have caused and I offer my sincere and heartfelt apologies.

“It has been a privilege to be the representative of Her Majesty the Queen and to serve the communities of the West Midlands for the last eight years. Having given the matter deep consideration and in the light of my wife’s ill health I have decided to stand down as lord lieutenant of West Midlands to spend more time with my wife.”

@Akheilos , reading your posts it's just a waste of time to even attempt to change your opinion. But i'm standing with mine. A society that wants to isolate itself in a plural culture offers nothing to it.

@Thəorətic Muslim you are also free to join his lectures of civility, common courtesy etc etc if you personally need them but dont speak for others Pakistani Muslims .

Thank you for your offer, I shall take up his lectures of civility, as long as they don't demand I do something un-Islamic.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

@Akheilos , reading your posts it's just a waste of time to even attempt to change your opinion. But i'm standing with mine. A society that wants to isolate itself in a plural culture offers nothing to it.
Thank you for your offer, I shall take up his lectures of civility, as long as they don't demand I do something un-Islamic.

You are taking his personal opinion based on his own insecurities as fact so best of luck. You can contact him as he will be happy to teach you civility

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

You are taking his personal opinion based on his own insecurities as fact so best of luck. You can contact him as he will be happy to teach you civility

Regardless of whether or not it was his insecurities or feeling of inferiority, he said it correctly that a society can not only converse with itself and disregard the larger community that surrounds it.

England isn't Pakistan. Where it's acceptable to have a segregated lifestyle based on your socio-economic status.

You're welcome to oppose this guy's statement, but not deny my right to support it.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Regardless of whether or not it was his insecurities or feeling of inferiority, he said it correctly that a society can not only converse with itself and disregard the larger community that surrounds it.

England isn't Pakistan. Where it's acceptable to have a segregated lifestyle based on your socio-economic status.

You're welcome to oppose this guy's statement, but not deny my right to support it.

I oppose it because he painted all Pakistani community with one brush. such people exist in every community even in European as have seen polish making their own grouping and secondly his personal experience of interaction with Pakistani community may be different than others who did not felt this way in same event. Constitution of England give you this freedom to practice your culture and religion because England is a multi cultural society so Pakistani dont feel the need to please the majority and to live according to their wishes and desires as its free world

 

[Dubious]

@Akheilos , reading your posts it's just a waste of time to even attempt to change your opinion. But i'm standing with mine. A society that wants to isolate itself in a plural culture offers nothing to it.

Everyone has a right to their opinion...

No one is trying to change yours...I am just pointing things as they are....He should have addressed the people responsible...How was bitching about them in his private email helping them improve or anything?

I would also invite you to witness even a basic American in Europe ....He will rarely mix until and unless for a drink or if the person speaks his language i.e. English! It is a common norm...

Even in Europe I have rarely seen Spanish or French mixing with others, I have rarely seen Italian mixing with others, Germans and Russians also rarely....Chinese mixing is also another rare one....Heck even Eastern European.....Only time I have seen people mixing is for a drink not otherwise!

But Queens representative somehow singled a community of people when it is a common thing almost everywhere...Maybe he needs to travel more!

 

[Kharral]

shades of hatred?

And the remark of a whole community based on 20 people is not shades of hatred? The remark of a certain community when his own is no different is not shades of hatred!

I see you have some really thick goggles on!

Had I seen any malice in his remarks or were it some thing that wasn't factual, then I would have said his remark eminated from hatred.

There is constructive criticism and then there is backbitting! If he felt what he felt a decent and responsible way would have been to address it to the organizing committee not bitch about it in his personal email...How is that constructive or helping you learn and improve had it not been intercept and "exposed" by some people?

What exactly should he have said to the organising committee ?
That your guests weren't attentive ? I don't think he was lecturer in a hall addressing students.


And again I ask you:

How is that constructive or helping you learn and improve when it is pure bitching in personal email....did he have the audacity to say it out right to the people who he is addressing to? had it not been intercept and "exposed" by some people you wouldnt even know what he harbours for Pakistani community!


THIS is not constructive criticism it is backbitting or in layman term bitching!!

The culture here is exactly opposite of what we have in Pakistan. What me & you see as upright & honest is considered ill mannered & offensive as I have found from my experiences. In any organisation you would see employs laughing & smiling at each other like the best of friends but the very next moment they ll be discussing it behind their back to their other colleagues & believ it or not it's considered polite & acceptable to do it rather than say it plainly or bluntly to the persons on their face.

The jist of your argument is even worse! Because someone is bitching about you eating shit and not addressing you like a man you will automatically understand and ponder about it! Amazing!

The jist of my argument is that I agree with his observations, my community is lagging behind in this regard & it's only going to benefit us if we take an issue of remark & improve ourselves. The very place he was addressing at is the most unruly place in the whole of Birmingham. I know because I have been there & any one else who has been there would agree with me unless they think that by doing that they would put their community in bad light & just hide it.

saying a spade a spade is not bigotry...he said he is sorry so he did have a clue he could have hurt sentiments yet as the queens advisory he did...How does that represent the crown?

Had he some problems with the committee a wise man would have addressed them to the committee not bitched about them in his personal mail like a child!

And then highlighting their future children as British citizens was just pushing his luck a little too far!

He should have addressed the committee how would they improve if they are unaware that someone felt ignored while the other attendee felt something else?

You are not calling a spade a spade.
Had this man not been of Indian descent, your response would have been different. I have personally heard similar remarks from the consulate general for Birmingham himself on more than two occasions. The staff at the place itself is pretty sick & tired of community leaders, who are mostly businessmen, solicitors & councillors but behave like touts that you would find in a police station or a passport office back home. The man was wise enough not to inform the organisers on the spot, he would have got in to trouble right there & seeing where this man has ended up you can rest assure that the other members attending the event aren't going to agree with him & you would most likely hear them saying stuff that is pleasing to your ears.

 

[Dubious]

Had this man not been of Indian descent, your response would have been different.

you think very indian like with a morsel of victim complex!

Quick sympathies are not my forte!

I have personally heard similar remarks from the consulate general for Birmingham himself on more than two occasions.

and have you told them? or have you done like Queen's rep gone with the bitching shit?

If I check into this will I get the same results or are you saying it for the sake of the argument coz I can look into this....and if I do I will make sure I TELL THEM and not bitch about it behind their back!!

The staff at the place itself is pretty sick & tired of community leaders, who are mostly businessmen, solicitors & councillors but behave like touts that you would find in a police station or a passport office back home.

You live in Birmingham I suppose? Or are you just saying it for the sake of argument coz I can look into it and counter this!

. The man was wise enough not to inform the organisers on the spot, he would have got in to trouble right there & seeing where this man has ended up you can rest assure that the other members attending the event aren't going to agree with him & you would most likely hear them saying stuff that is pleasing to your ears.

so the committee has soo much power they can make him resign? You are at 1st calling them brute then giving them power to "i dont know what word to put here" the Queen's representative!!!!

Make up your mind!

The man wasnt wise ...Were he wise he would have both said it and gotten away with it!

or he would have said it nicely TO THEM and still kept his job instead of bitching about it!

You see when in power you cant make such follies!

As for the rest they were MP...touching even one would have landed the organizers in jail and touching the Queen's rep would have done more damage to their committee ...

You see in your attempt to BS you forgot that the Queen's rep is not some ordinary person! But if he does a mistake he does a mistake!

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

This shah se zyada shah ka wafadar is originally from Chennai India

So?